Ecobee - Changing humidifier setpoint with programs

[Bob Gratton]

@Jimbo I was happy to see a new release of the PG2 Ecobee NS with this mention in the release notes: "2.3.0: JimBo 01/14/2022 Pull in PR from firstone: Adding set (de)humidity point commands" Since my understanding was that we could now change the humidifier and dehumidifier setpoints thru programs and this was exactly the feature I was looking for tonight.

I updated the NS to 2.3.0 and those features did not appear.

Did I misunderstand the release note or is there something wrong on my side?

I did reboot both Polisy and the ISY (V5.3.0). 

Thanks,

[Jimbo.Automates]

Hey @Bob Gratton, I have not tested these changes that were implemented by @firstone hopefully he can look at this, if not I can try to look at it.  I am currently in the middle of converting this NS to PG3.

[Bob Gratton]

Thanks @Jimbo, since you are working on the PG3 version of the Ecobee NS, I guess it's a good time to mention a bug I noticed yesterday. When changing the Fan from AUTO to ON from ISY, the Ecobee thermostat "Schedule mode" changes to "Hold". I think it is the "Fan mode" that should be changing to "Hold" and the "schedule mode" should stay un "Running" since no manual change was made to the temp setpoint. Now, most times I look at my thermostat, it displays "hold until next", even if the Fan was returned to AUTO by the ISY. Just thought it might be simple to correct while implementing the PG3 version.

@firstone, Can you confirm if I should have acces to modify the humidity setpoint with V2.3.0 of the Ecobee NS? If so, I guess I will uninstall, deauthorize and start from scratch.

Thanks,

[Jimbo.Automates]

Thanks @Bob Gratton I'll see if that can be fixed before releasing 3.x. I added a issue here https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc-PG3/udi-poly-ecobee/issues

I also need to carry these issues over to PG3 if they are all not resolved.  https://github.com/Einstein42/udi-ecobee-poly/issues

 

[tmorse305]

2 hours ago, Bob Gratton said:

When changing the Fan from AUTO to ON from ISY, the Ecobee thermostat "Schedule mode" changes to "Hold". I think it is the "Fan mode" that should be changing to "Hold" and the "schedule mode" should stay un "Running" since no manual change was made to the temp setpoint.

@Jimbo, @Bob Gratton, This was an issue I brought up in Dec 2019.  See the link.  It would be great if you could fix this but I think it might be out of your control given the communication requirements with the ecobee API that you described.  Bob Gratton heads up, ISY is blind to any changes made to the thermostat locally up to 3 minutes just prior to making a Fan change via ISY.  This could mean that the temp set point could be over written with a previous value.  A small window but it was actually happening to me.

 

[larryllix]

4 minutes ago, tmorse305 said:

@Jimbo, @Bob Gratton, This was an issue I brought up in Dec 2019.  See the link.  It would be great if you could fix this but I think it might be out of your control given the communication requirements with the ecobee API that you described

 

There should be a hardwired HVAC fan contact to control your furnace/air handler fan. This is required to distribute the incoming outside air from HRVs. The central air distribution system needs to be turned on when the HRV is controlled from manual buttons in damp rooms, without any ISY control or knowledge of those events.

[tmorse305]

2 minutes ago, larryllix said:

There should be a hardwired HVAC fan contact to control your furnace/air handler fan.

Yes that's true but I chose not to hardwire them together.  My logic was that when it is really cold or really hot I don't run the HRV but I still run the fan to at least provide some air circulation in the house.  Your comment does suggest an alternative I hadn't thought of.  Control  the fan contact from ISY and avoid the ecobee issue.  Thanks!

[Bob Gratton]

@tmorse305 thanks for the heads up. Changing the "Fan On time" does not seem to create the issue. I already change this according to the temperature difference between the different floors and to help distribute the heat from the fireplace. My reason for setting the fan to ON was for when I force the whole house humidifier ON (without heat from the furnace). So I might either revert to setting "Fan On Time" to 55 minutes (maximum) when I want to run the humidifier (I also wait for a fan running confirmation before turning on the water) or I might explore your idea of controlling the fan directly from ISY/ELK. None of the option is perfect, the downside with the 55 minutes option is that the fan starts and stops often and the downside with bypassing the Ecobee for the fan is that the Ecobee won't be aware of the fan status.

[Jimbo.Automates]

Thanks @tmorse305 I thought it sounded familiar but couldn't remember the specifics, I'll review that post again along with the current API and see what can be done.

 

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, tmorse305 said:

Yes that's true but I chose not to hardwire them together.  My logic was that when it is really cold or really hot I don't run the HRV but I still run the fan to at least provide some air circulation in the house.  Your comment does suggest an alternative I hadn't thought of.  Control  the fan contact from ISY and avoid the ecobee issue.  Thanks!

The HRV units I have seen have an input and a dry contact output to run your central air distribution system. There would be no backfeeds when you stat runs the fan, only forward feeds from an isolated contact output on the HRV control circuit.

[larryllix]

3 hours ago, Bob Gratton said:

@tmorse305 thanks for the heads up. Changing the "Fan On time" does not seem to create the issue. I already change this according to the temperature difference between the different floors and to help distribute the heat from the fireplace. My reason for setting the fan to ON was for when I force the whole house humidifier ON (without heat from the furnace). So I might either revert to setting "Fan On Time" to 55 minutes (maximum) when I want to run the humidifier (I also wait for a fan running confirmation before turning on the water) or I might explore your idea of controlling the fan directly from ISY/ELK. None of the option is perfect, the downside with the 55 minutes option is that the fan starts and stops often and the downside with bypassing the Ecobee for the fan is that the Ecobee won't be aware of the fan status.

I find on my two ecobee stats that 5, 10, and 15 minutes are the only useful settings for the fan cycling. 15 minutes or higher runs the fan on 100% of the time.

[Bob Gratton]

Quote

I find on my two ecobee stats that 5, 10, and 15 minutes are the only useful settings for the fan cycling. 15 minutes or higher runs the fan on 100% of the time.

Interesting, I have mine usually set to run at least 35 min/h and 55 min/h when the temperature difference between the floors passes a threshold. I did not take my watch and measure the running time but it seem about right. Except when there is a heat or cooling request obviously.

Anyone of you guys using the Ecobee NS can confirm if I should be able to set the humidity setpoint with V2.3.0?

I reinstalled the NS and still nothing. Did I misunderstand the release note? What am I missing?

Thanks

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, Bob Gratton said:

Interesting, I have mine usually set to run at least 35 min/h and 55 min/h when the temperature difference between the floors passes a threshold. I did not take my watch and measure the running time but it seem about right. Except when there is a heat or cooling request obviously.

Anyone of you guys using the Ecobee NS can confirm if I should be able to set the humidity setpoint with V2.3.0?

I reinstalled the NS and still nothing. Did I misunderstand the release note? What am I missing?

Thanks

Are you aware of the Home IQ | System Monitor webpage via the ecobee Windows app? <see below>

It appears ecobee has changed the fan cycler system. The times appear to have changed to actual minutes and the intelligence has been removed. Now it appears to be a dumb cycle that just cycles the fan whether the HVAC runs or not. Previously it did not cycle until the HVAC didn't run for it's timeout tme and the 15 minute setting was continuous.

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, Bob Gratton said:

Interesting, I have mine usually set to run at least 35 min/h and 55 min/h when the temperature difference between the floors passes a threshold. I did not take my watch and measure the running time but it seem about right. Except when there is a heat or cooling request obviously.

Anyone of you guys using the Ecobee NS can confirm if I should be able to set the humidity setpoint with V2.3.0?

I reinstalled the NS and still nothing. Did I misunderstand the release note? What am I missing?

Thanks

I don't see any humidity setpoint controls in my NS v2.3.0 either. I understood the announcement the same as you did. However, I have been reading the humidity setpoints for a few years now using the NS.

[larryllix]

16 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Thanks @Bob Gratton I'll see if that can be fixed before releasing 3.x. I added a issue here https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc-PG3/udi-poly-ecobee/issues

I also need to carry these issues over to PG3 if they are all not resolved.  https://github.com/Einstein42/udi-ecobee-poly/issues

 

Just a quirky thing in the NS.
What is weather | enable/disable ? Can we play Mother Nature too?

[Bob Gratton]

4 hours ago, larryllix said:

Are you aware of the Home IQ | System Monitor webpage via the ecobee Windows app? <see below>

It appears ecobee has changed the fan cycler system. The times appear to have changed to actual minutes and the intelligence has been removed. Now it appears to be a dumb cycle that just cycles the fan whether the HVAC runs or not. Previously it did not cycle until the HVAC didn't run for it's timeout tme and the 15 minute setting was continuous.

I did not know about this "System Monitoring" page! More data to look at! Thanks!

I'll look deeper into the fan behaviour.

 

4 hours ago, larryllix said:

I don't see any humidity setpoint controls in my NS v2.3.0 either. I understood the announcement the same as you did. However, I have been reading the humidity setpoints for a few years now using the NS.

Thanks, Hopefully the possibility of changing the humidity setpoint will be added at some point.

[Jimbo.Automates]

For the Fan mode issue I think it can be done and updated the issue: https://github.com/UniversalDevicesInc-PG3/udi-poly-ecobee/issues/1

But I have one more NS of my 13 to convert to PG3, and move my ISY to IoP (ISY on Polsiy) then I will start working on all enhancements requested by everyone for those 13...

I will look at the humidity setpoint in program issue now.

[Jimbo.Automates]

@Bob Gratton and @larryllix, I just updated my PG2 dev NS to the changes done by @firstone and I do see the ability to set both humidity setpoints.

Test Ecobee 3 - [ID 0042][Parent 0001]

If
        'Ecobee / Ecobee - JimBo Dev 03 local' Humidification Setpoint is 40%
 
Then
        Set 'Ecobee / Ecobee - JimBo Dev 03 local' Humidification Setpoint 30%
        Set 'Ecobee / Ecobee - JimBo Dev 03 local' Dehumidification Setpoint 80%
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

Please make sure you see 2.3.0 in the NS log:

2022-01-23 12:26:45,200 NodeServer polyinterface INFO Controller:start: Ecobee NodeServer Version 2.3.0

Also, the first time 2.3.0 was started up it should have updated the profile on the ISY:

2022-01-23 12:26:45,201 NodeServer polyinterface INFO Controller:start: Update nodeserver_version from 2.2.3 to 2.3.0 in customData

If you are seeing 2.3.0 and have restarted the AC since updating, then select the "Ecobee Controller" node in the AC and hit the "Upload Profile" buttton, then close and re-open the AC.

[larryllix]

@Bob Gratton & @Jimbo Just as a funny aside. I remember looking for those humidify/dehumidify setpoints on the stats themselves and gave up a few times. I use those setpoints to set variables for my floor humidifier on/off points in an ISY cycler program. When I built my house many people told me I would never need a humidifier on my furnace/air handler because my home was so air tight. Sure if you like 15% RH in the winter and dry throats all the time. We don;t make enough boiled pasta, I guess.

Anyway, IIRC the humidify/dehumidify setpoints are found under the A/C setttings as A/C compensation factors, and not under the heating setup, as I would have expected.

[Bob Gratton]

4 hours ago, Jimbo said:

@Bob Gratton and @larryllix, I just updated my PG2 dev NS to the changes done by @firstone and I do see the ability to set both humidity setpoints.

Test Ecobee 3 - [ID 0042][Parent 0001]

If
        'Ecobee / Ecobee - JimBo Dev 03 local' Humidification Setpoint is 40%
 
Then
        Set 'Ecobee / Ecobee - JimBo Dev 03 local' Humidification Setpoint 30%
        Set 'Ecobee / Ecobee - JimBo Dev 03 local' Dehumidification Setpoint 80%
 
Else
   - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
 

Please make sure you see 2.3.0 in the NS log:

2022-01-23 12:26:45,200 NodeServer polyinterface INFO Controller:start: Ecobee NodeServer Version 2.3.0

Also, the first time 2.3.0 was started up it should have updated the profile on the ISY:

2022-01-23 12:26:45,201 NodeServer polyinterface INFO Controller:start: Update nodeserver_version from 2.2.3 to 2.3.0 in customData

If you are seeing 2.3.0 and have restarted the AC since updating, then select the "Ecobee Controller" node in the AC and hit the "Upload Profile" buttton, then close and re-open the AC.

 

Hi @Jimbo, I do see V2.3.0 in the NS log:

2022-01-23 20:07:52,913 NodeServer polyinterface      INFO     Controller:start: Ecobee NodeServer Version 2.3.0

I pressed the "Upload profile" button on the "Ecobee Controller" node and restarted the AC but still no option to set the humidity setpoints

Yesterday I also deleted/uninstalled the NS and reinstalled in the same slot.

Any other idea? My ISY firware is V5.3.0

Thanks again

[Bob Gratton]

@larryllix to follow-up on the Ecobee fan runtime, looking at the System Monitor page I can confirm that my Ecobee is true to the set fan runtime. It splits the hour in 4 blocks. When the runtime is set to 35min/hour, the fan runs 4 times 8:45 min within the hour. If the runtime is set to 55min/hour, the fan runs 4 times 13:45 min in the hour. Whatever the runtime is set to, there is always 4 starts and 4 stops per hour. (unless fan is set to "ON" or the heat is on)

The graphical representation on the System Monitor page might look like a full gray line, but looking at each 5min block individually, they are not all full 5 minutes. Adding up the time ON for each 5min block gives the correct total.

On the picture below, the cursor is on a 5min block that look full on the graph, but that was only ON for 3:45 minutes out of 5.

Yours might be different. Looking at your graph, I can't understand why the fan is not always running while the heat is on. My Ecobee firmware version is 4.7.5.352

[Jimbo.Automates]

1 hour ago, Bob Gratton said:

 

Hi @Jimbo, I do see V2.3.0 in the NS log:

2022-01-23 20:07:52,913 NodeServer polyinterface      INFO     Controller:start: Ecobee NodeServer Version 2.3.0

I pressed the "Upload profile" button on the "Ecobee Controller" node and restarted the AC but still no option to set the humidity setpoints

Yesterday I also deleted/uninstalled the NS and reinstalled in the same slot.

Any other idea? My ISY firware is V5.3.0

Thanks again

Very strange that deleting and reinstall to same slot doesn't fix it.  Please click on "Build Profile" for the controller, watch the log for it to complete, then close and open the AC.  If you still don't see it then please "Download Log Package" and send it to me.

[Bob Gratton]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

Very strange that deleting and reinstall to same slot doesn't fix it.  Please click on "Build Profile" for the controller, watch the log for it to complete, then close and open the AC.  If you still don't see it then please "Download Log Package" and send it to me.

I can't find "Build Profile", could you please explain this a little more?

Thanks,

[Jimbo.Automates]

8 minutes ago, Bob Gratton said:

I can't find "Build Profile", could you please explain this a little more?

Thanks,

Select the Controller node in the AC, it's next to the "Upload Profile" button 

[Bob Gratton]

9 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Select the Controller node in the AC, it's next to the "Upload Profile" button 

My Ecobee Controller node has only the following 4 command buttons: Discover, Upload Profile, Poll, Query.

See picture on next post