End of Days Preparation

[upstatemike]

28 minutes ago, MrBill said:

Lutron publishes their API's they can be googled.  Smarthome used to try, but it was never complete, then they took it away completely.

 

I wasn't sure because some companies seem to already have access to RA3 integration while others do not.

[simplextech]

18 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

I wasn't sure because some companies seem to already have access to RA3 integration while others do not.

The Ra 3 API is not public.  I don't know if it ever will be made public. 

I do know they have only granted access for integration to the big players (RTI, Control4, Crestron, Savant) at this point.  I also know they are not giving this information out to any small players for use in any source based integration or open source usage.  With that said I have seen where some people are actively reverse engineering the integration based on knowledge of the Caseta authentication method which is somewhat working but it's still a blind undocumented implementation.

I've repeated this multiple times over and over... I get the impression people don't read forums they just post.

[upstatemike]

1 hour ago, simplextech said:

The Ra 3 API is not public.  I don't know if it ever will be made public. 

I do know they have only granted access for integration to the big players (RTI, Control4, Crestron, Savant) at this point.  I also know they are not giving this information out to any small players for use in any source based integration or open source usage.  With that said I have seen where some people are actively reverse engineering the integration based on knowledge of the Caseta authentication method which is somewhat working but it's still a blind undocumented implementation.

I've repeated this multiple times over and over... I get the impression people don't read forums they just post.

So that was my point. There will never be an RA3 Nodeserver unless it is based on reverse engineering. There probably won't be a Nokia Nodeserver at all. The shortcomings of Z-Wave continue to frustrate people and neither Matter nor Zigbee appear to be stepping up to address any of those frustrating characteristics within their repective protocols. I guess you could use multiple Caseta hubs (to scale past 50 devices) but that doesn't address the keypad issue so I really don't see any upcoming replacement for Insteon for perhaps many years.

[lilyoyo1]

2 hours ago, upstatemike said:

So if Smartlabs decides not to share documentation with companies like UDI, Hubitat, and Homeseer and if Lutron also decides to withhold the RA3 API from those companies, what will the HA landscape look like going forward? Z-Wave has a long list of shortcomings and Matter does not look like it will fix many (if any) of them. Zigbee appears to have no interest in providing higher end switches with features like premium styling, direct associations, smooth group control, or customizable buttons and LEDs. 

Same question as all the other "what is the best option going forward" posts except not assuming any group or company is focusing on the things that DIY consumers care about. Are we in for a decade or so of depending on reverse engineered solutions because no company will share info outside of their walled garden?

(Yes I am one of those people)

Its quite sad that companies have truly abandoned those who allowed this field to grow. I get it from a business sense but it doesnt mean that I have to like it. There are no best options overall in the DIY market. For zwave to work really well, you really need to dumb it down alot. Zwave works spectacular when it comes to the basic on/off app controlled systems...Not so great when it comes to true automation. 

With that said, if I didnt have access to Control 4, I would probably go with hue bulbs and focus only in the areas that I use automation in the most. Im trying to move towards a responsive/reactive home vs needing to use any type of controls and I can accomplish that with bulbs. Even now, its rare that we actually touch a switch. For the few occasions we do, I could easily move those to voice control. While I like that I can use insteon without a hub, Im tied to one regardless so Im not as much against it as I used to be. With hue, I can at least add some type of switch for local control should my polisy/router fail. Outside of that, Id probably go back to standard dummy switches/dimmers and use timers for things such as the front porch/garage. Thankfully, thats not an option I need to be concerned with

[bpwwer]

1 hour ago, upstatemike said:

So that was my point. There will never be an RA3 Nodeserver unless it is based on reverse engineering. 

We don't know that yet.

[simplextech]

1 hour ago, upstatemike said:

There will never be an RA3 Nodeserver unless it is based on reverse engineering.

Again not a valid statement.

Read what I posted.  Lutron will not provide the API to open source projects or source based integrations aka those derived using interpreted programming languages where one can simply open the program in a text editor and read everything. 

Nodeservers are NOT limited to source based languages.  In fact I pushed my first binary Nodeserver to the beta store last night.  Ra 3 integration could also be possible as a ISY integrated module much like the older modules were for ISY where source is not available.

[upstatemike]

17 minutes ago, simplextech said:

Again not a valid statement.

Read what I posted.  Lutron will not provide the API to open source projects or source based integrations aka those derived using interpreted programming languages where one can simply open the program in a text editor and read everything. 

Nodeservers are NOT limited to source based languages.  In fact I pushed my first binary Nodeserver to the beta store last night.  Ra 3 integration could also be possible as a ISY integrated module much like the older modules were for ISY where source is not available.

Sorry to keep misunderstanding but still not clear. Ignoring interpreted vs compiled languages, are you saying that Lutron will release the API to UDI or not? If yes then why haven't they already done so as they have for C4 etc. ? I also don't know what a "ISY integrated module" is or how it could provide integration to RA3 without needing the the API info?

[stillwater]

Pretty clear that @simplextech is saying we don't know yet whether Lutron will release API info for use in Polisy/ISY. 

But he's saying that while Lutron is unlikely to release info to public,  there are ways either in NodeServer or via an ISY module (like the old Elk or Weather modules) that developers could use to protect API info from becoming public and this secrecy might persuade Lutron to provide the info needed for either a nodeserver or module to speak RA3 to/from the ISY.  

[simplextech]

13 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Sorry to keep misunderstanding but still not clear. Ignoring interpreted vs compiled languages, are you saying that Lutron will release the API to UDI or not? If yes then why haven't they already done so as they have for C4 etc. ? I also don't know what a "ISY integrated module" is or how it could provide integration to RA3 without needing the the API info?

I don't know if they will release the API info to UDI.  I do know that UDI has been in communication with Lutron as well as I have been.

[lilyoyo1]

57 minutes ago, upstatemike said:

Sorry to keep misunderstanding but still not clear. Ignoring interpreted vs compiled languages, are you saying that Lutron will release the API to UDI or not? If yes then why haven't they already done so as they have for C4 etc. ? I also don't know what a "ISY integrated module" is or how it could provide integration to RA3 without needing the the API info?

All of the companies that currently work with Ra3 are large established companies with a professional installer base. UDI is much smaller than they are which means they arent their priority. Those who can make you the most money gets priority. No different than any other company.

One thing Lutron requires is full support from their partners meaning, if you have a problem with your system, you call C4 not Lutron (in this case the customer calls their dealer). With UDI, they'll want to fully vet them to ensure that theyll be able to provide proper support so they arent inundated with calls from end users.