Stupidity was the cause of the downfall

[silverton38]

There were so many "smart" people working for Smartlabs that they thought they were even smarter than their customers. The downfall started when they killed the serial PLM. They believed that their brand would be better if they controlled all the customers and did not have any third party access. They would then relaunch with Nokia and grow grow grow. 

I sent many letters to them explaining that they would be out of business if they did not start making the serial PLM. In a conversation with some executive along the way; I was told that "Insteon is probably moving to a closed platform because it is a better experience for the customer" and I was referred to Nokia. All that happened was a collapse of Insteon sales because the bigger professional customers looked and found alternatives. I would have continued to purchase and install Insteon/ISY/serial PLM solutions to this day. How many more "customer like me" did the same?

in summary; they did it to themselves.

 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, silverton38 said:

There were so many "smart" people working for Smartlabs that they thought they were even smarter than their customers. The downfall started when they killed the serial PLM. They believed that their brand would be better if they controlled all the customers and did not have any third party access. They would then relaunch with Nokia and grow grow grow. 

I sent many letters to them explaining that they would be out of business if they did not start making the serial PLM. In a conversation with some executive along the way; I was told that "Insteon is probably moving to a closed platform because it is a better experience for the customer" and I was referred to Nokia. All that happened was a collapse of Insteon sales because the bigger professional customers looked and found alternatives. I would have continued to purchase and install Insteon/ISY/serial PLM solutions to this day. How many more "customer like me" did the same?

Is summary; they did it to themselves.

 

Their downfall started waaay before that. 

[silverton38]

I have not doubt but that was the beginning of the end.

 

[lilyoyo1]

The PLM had nothing to do with their downfall. They have a letter to their customers detailing issues that started years before then

[larryllix]

14 hours ago, silverton38 said:

There were so many "smart" people working for Smartlabs that they thought they were even smarter than their customers. The downfall started when they killed the serial PLM. They believed that their brand would be better if they controlled all the customers and did not have any third party access. They would then relaunch with Nokia and grow grow grow. 

I sent many letters to them explaining that they would be out of business if they did not start making the serial PLM. In a conversation with some executive along the way; I was told that "Insteon is probably moving to a closed platform because it is a better experience for the customer" and I was referred to Nokia. All that happened was a collapse of Insteon sales because the bigger professional customers looked and found alternatives. I would have continued to purchase and install Insteon/ISY/serial PLM solutions to this day. How many more "customer like me" did the same?

in summary; they did it to themselves.

 

Killing the PLM was a method to squash the competition, ISY994. It comes out now (was being hidden then) that Smarthome was afraid of UDI and did many things to thwart their growth.

It didn't work.

[Brian H]

Like not supplying the needed information on such things as the Alert and Siren modules. Forcing them to try and do their own tests?

[larryllix]

The events became too obvious to hide their intent, despite many disputes against the logic.

The truth seems to be coming out now, slowly. I wonder how crow tastes.

[lilyoyo1]

37 minutes ago, larryllix said:

The events became too obvious to hide their intent, despite many disputes against the logic.

The truth seems to be coming out now, slowly. I wonder how crow tastes.

Crow tastes like chicken. The truth always came out to those i like on here. I always told certain people more than I said on the forum. With that said, I can only repeat what was said to me based on the information they had as well. Obviously a move like this comes from the top and generally they don't tell employees their intentions until it's too late.

[TheLastWorkingHubPro]

evilpete woke everybody up  

I stopped buying after I saw that.

[KeviNH]

Likely didn't help any that their core patents on the Insteon communications were coming up for expiration.

[larryllix]

38 minutes ago, TheLastWorkingHubPro said:

evilpete woke everybody up  

I stopped buying after I saw that.

I found it very promising that a hacker group couldn't even hack the protocol with so much equipment and brainpower at their disposal. His demo was a complete failure but it proved the SmartLabs whitepaper was BS to put hackers off copying their patents. Very common in industry to do that.

Perhaps they will allow their patents to expire and we may see a new and improved Insteon, with backward compatibility to shake up the HA world again.

[lilyoyo1]

38 minutes ago, TheLastWorkingHubPro said:

evilpete woke everybody up  

I stopped buying after I saw that.

I said it then about them shutting down changes nothing for me and it still applies. My system is still running fine with them shut down.

I stopped installing them 2 years ago so it doesn't even impact me business wise. I have enough backups to cover old customers that are still within my coverage timeline so I'm good regardless.

For me, Insteon leaving simply means 1 less option for end users.  I was already planning on swapping to control 4 until ra3 came into the picture. I wanted to stick with insteon for their new line until I found out they wouldn't release the API for 3rd party. I hoped they would've managed to get through this but unfortunately they didn't. 

[silverton38]

5 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

The PLM had nothing to do with their downfall. They have a letter to their customers detailing issues that started years before then

I have to disagree. With all their issues I did not stop buying Insteon until after the PLM was out of stock. I can not be the only one that did this?

Let us be honest; Insteon without the ISY ---- SUCKED.

[silverton38]

 

4 hours ago, larryllix said:

Killing the PLM was a method to squash the competition, ISY994. It comes out now (was being hidden then) that Smarthome was afraid of UDI and did many things to thwart their growth.

It didn't work.

I totally agree. 

[silverton38]

4 hours ago, Brian H said:

Like not supplying the needed information on such things as the Alert and Siren modules. Forcing them to try and do their own tests?

They definitely had an issue of some sort with UDI.

[silverton38]

50 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

I said it then about them shutting down changes nothing for me and it still applies. My system is still running fine with them shut down.

I stopped installing them 2 years ago so it doesn't even impact me business wise. I have enough backups to cover old customers that are still within my coverage timeline so I'm good regardless.

For me, Insteon leaving simply means 1 less option for end users.  I was already planning on swapping to control 4 until ra3 came into the picture. I wanted to stick with insteon for their new line until I found out they wouldn't release the API for 3rd party. I hoped they would've managed to get through this but unfortunately they didn't. 

I ran out of PLMs and had to pay $400 for one because I had a customer down; I have to eat the entire cost. I then figured out how to repair them. I still have several Insteon customers that have no idea what is going on (Thank You UDI) and I am keeping a few repaired PLMs around. I am also trying to convert customers to other systems and new customer are on Lutron.

I also have more than 500 used switches and dimmers; which to too much. I will eBay about 400 of them shortly.

[RPerrault]

29 minutes ago, silverton38 said:

I ran out of PLMs and had to pay $400 for one because I had a customer down; I have to eat the entire cost. I then figured out how to repair them. I still have several Insteon customers that have no idea what is going on (Thank You UDI) and I am keeping a few repaired PLMs around. I am also trying to convert customers to other systems and new customer are on Lutron.

I also have more than 500 used switches and dimmers; which to too much. I will eBay about 400 of them shortly.

what lutron system?

 

[silverton38]

18 minutes ago, RPerrault said:

what lutron system?

 

Caseta and RA2 select (Sometimes both) for now.

[silverton38]

On a slightly separate note;

 

https://nokia.smartlabsinc.com is down today. So I guess Nokia knows what is going on.

 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, silverton38 said:

I have to disagree. With all their issues I did not stop buying Insteon until after the PLM was out of stock. I can not be the only one that did this?

Let us be honest; Insteon without the ISY ---- SUCKED.

Of course there were less sales without the PLM. But if a company was already struggling prior to that, i highly doubt they wouldve sustained themselves. At the end of the day, they still didn't have any other product to sell. The PLM didn't change that

[lilyoyo1]

45 minutes ago, silverton38 said:

On a slightly separate note;

 

https://nokia.smartlabsinc.com is down today. So I guess Nokia knows what is going on.

 

It's been down from a lot of other places that it was on. The Nokia hub stopped working a week ago

[silverton38]

I did have one customer on a hub that I set up years ago that just called me. I told them what was going on and that I would arrange to convert them to ISY/Serial PLM. Yikes this nightmare keeps going on.

[silverton38]

1 minute ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Of course there were less sales without the PLM. But if a company was already struggling prior to that, i highly doubt they wouldve sustained themselves. At the end of the day, they still didn't have any other product to sell. The PLM didn't change that

I can agree with that.

[Techman]

Not to worry and no need to panic, It's not over until the fat lady sings.

With Smartlabs/Smarthome now in bankruptcy there exists that part, or all, of the Insteon technology can, or may, be resurrected post-bankruptcy, including support for the existing Insteon Hubs. Michel and his team are on top of this.

Hang in there for a while and let's see how this plays out. Patience is a virtue.

 

 

[silverton38]

On 4/21/2022 at 4:55 PM, lilyoyo1 said:

Their downfall started waaay before that. 

 

8 hours ago, Techman said:

Not to worry and no need to panic, It's not over until the fat lady sings.

With Smartlabs/Smarthome now in bankruptcy there exists that part, or all, of the Insteon technology can, or may, be resurrected post-bankruptcy, including support for the existing Insteon Hubs. Michel and his team are on top of this.

Hang in there for a while and let's see how this plays out. Patience is a virtue.

 

 

That is great. If he needs assistance he should let us know.