sdynak Posted July 7, 2022 Posted July 7, 2022 Ok guys & gals.. I believe I have seen some threads on this before where it could be possible so wanted to check in my situation if there are options. I have a scene that controls a 3 way stairway arrangement with insteon dimmers (one is a keypad 5 button dimmer) The scene also has 4 motion sensors strategically placed that turn the scene on with motion & off after a 30 second timeout. The thing is with the motion sensors, I don't currently have a way to manually override the motion sensors. I do have a program that adjusts the scene so it doesn't come on in the middle of the night. Is there a simple way to override the motion controlled scene and allow me to turn the 3 way on until manually turn it back off? Any other details I can add to help? Thanks as always!
MrBill Posted July 7, 2022 Posted July 7, 2022 Are your motions activating the scene directly or thru a program? which model motion sensor? Please post any programs you are using with this now (right click the program name, select copy to clipboard--the last item on the list, then paste into a reply to this thread).
sdynak Posted July 7, 2022 Author Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, MrBill said: Are your motions activating the scene directly or thru a program? which model motion sensor? Please post any programs you are using with this now (right click the program name, select copy to clipboard--the last item on the list, then paste into a reply to this thread). Motions are activating the scene directly. They are the original 2842-222 units. Screen shot of scene attached. I use the scene adjusts depending on the day of week as below (thanks!): Stairway Night Light Adjust Scene Weekday - [ID 009D][Parent 00A1] If On Sun, Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu From 10:00:00PM To 4:30:00AM (next day) Then In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 1-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To Off in 0.1 seconds, No retries In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 3-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To Off in 0.1 seconds, No retries In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 2-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To Off in 0.1 seconds, No retries In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 4-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To Off in 0.1 seconds, No retries Else In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 1-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To 10% in 2.0 seconds, 1 retry In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 3-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To 10% in 2.0 seconds, 1 retry In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 2-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To 10% in 2.0 seconds, 1 retry In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 4-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To 10% in 2.0 seconds, 1 retry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stairway Night Light Adjust Scene Weekend - [ID 009F][Parent 00A1] If On Sat, Fri From 11:00:00PM To 7:00:00AM (next day) Then In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 1-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To Off in 0.1 seconds, No retries In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 3-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To Off in 0.1 seconds, No retries In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 2-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To Off in 0.1 seconds, No retries In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 4-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To Off in 0.1 seconds, No retries Else In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 1-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To 10% in 2.0 seconds, 1 retry In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 3-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To 10% in 2.0 seconds, 1 retry In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 2-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To 10% in 2.0 seconds, 1 retry In 'Stairway 3-Way Motion / Motion Stairway 4-Sensor' Set 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' To 10% in 2.0 seconds, 1 retry Edited July 7, 2022 by sdynak
MrBill Posted July 7, 2022 Posted July 7, 2022 (edited) Jumper #4 of the original 2842 motion allows you to set the motion up for on only. Quote Jumper 4 – On-Only Mode If you wish to disable the automatic-off countdown, install jumper 4 on both pins and the Motion Sensor will only send “On.” Tap the Set button once, wait 10 seconds, and activate motion to establish the new setting. (source) Do that, because having the motion detector turn ON the scene is much faster than waiting for a program to do it. Then you need to add a program to turn the Lights off since Jumper 4 disables that. Program Stairway_Off_Delay If Stairway 3-way status is on then wait 30 seconds set Stairway 3-way status off then add a second program to disable If Stairway 3-way Up is switched Fast ON OR Stairway 3-way Down is switched Fast ON then Disable Program Stairway_Off_Delay then one more program If Stairway 3-way Up is switched Fast OFF OR Stairway 3-way Up is switched OFF OR Stairway 3-way Down is switched Fast OFF OR Stairway 3-way Down is switched OFF then Enable Program Stairway_Off_Delay To make the light stay on until switched off Double tap either switch. You could also ust make it so if its turned on by the switch it stays on, if you'd prefer that then change Fast ON in the second program to just ON. (Note the second and third program you want "control" and not "status" in the IF statements. Edited July 7, 2022 by MrBill 1
sdynak Posted July 7, 2022 Author Posted July 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, MrBill said: Jumper #4 of the original 2842 motion allows you to set the motion up for on only. (source) Do that, because having the motion detector turn ON the scene is much faster than waiting for a program to do it. Then you need to add a program to turn the Lights off since Jumper 4 disables that. Program Stairway_Off_Delay If Stairway 3-way status is on then wait 30 seconds set Stairway 3-way status off then add a second program to disable If Stairway 3-way Up is switched Fast ON OR Stairway 3-way Down is switched Fast ON then Disable Program Stairway_Off_Delay then one more program If Stairway 3-way Up is switched Fast OFF OR Stairway 3-way Up is switched OFF OR Stairway 3-way Down is switched Fast OFF OR Stairway 3-way Down is switched OFF then Enable Program Stairway_Off_Delay To make the light stay on until switched off Double tap either switch. You could also ust make it so if its turned on by the switch it stays on, if you'd prefer that then change Fast ON in the second program to just ON. (Note the second and third program you want "control" and not "status" in the IF statements. Thank you! I'll work on this and report back .. 1
sdynak Posted July 8, 2022 Author Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) So trying to add the 1st program for the scene "If Stairway 3-way status is on" I am not seeing scenes as an option under the "IF Status" conditions. Is it possible that is expected and can't be done that way? thanks! Edit: Possible this could replace the scene off delay program if the above is not possible? Stairway_Off_Delay - [ID 00DB][Parent 00A1][Not Enabled] If 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Down' is switched On Or ( 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Up' is switched On ) Then Wait 30 seconds Set 'Stairway 3-Way' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Edited July 8, 2022 by sdynak
sdynak Posted July 8, 2022 Author Posted July 8, 2022 It actually seems this could work after some trial.. Not sure if there are any downsides to use this over the scene status which doesn't seem to let me do under "IF". Stairway_Off_Delay - [ID 00DB][Parent 00A1] If 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Down' Status is 10% Or ( 'Stairway-3-Way / Stairway 3 Way Down' Status is 10% ) Then Wait 30 seconds Set 'Stairway 3-Way' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')
sdynak Posted July 8, 2022 Author Posted July 8, 2022 Well I put all the programs in and it seems the disable program is not working. I put the fast on for both switches As soon as motion is sensed it will drop to my normal 10% setting and then turn off in 30 seconds. Have to think about why the disable is not working.
sdynak Posted July 8, 2022 Author Posted July 8, 2022 Ok.. it seems the disable was pilot error.. I accidentally put the line under "Else" in both the disable and enable programs. Whops.. my bad. Doing more testing :)!! Seems like this will work! Thanks
sdynak Posted July 8, 2022 Author Posted July 8, 2022 Ok.. one last update for tonight after some testing. Programs disable & enable work ok now. Only thing is now my normal scene I have the dimmer set to 10%. So once I hit the switch with "Fast On" and the disable off sets, all is ok until motion is sensed again and then it drops the scene to 10%. More thinking to do.. I can probably live with this or add some more options somehow. Guess I will sleep on it.
MrBill Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 12 hours ago, sdynak said: I am not seeing scenes as an option under the "IF Status" conditions. Oops you're correct. (I was typing off the top of my head and not referring to the admin console). If Motion Stairway 1-Sensor is switched on (i.e. control) or Motion Stairway 2-Sensor is switched on or Motion Stairway 3-Sensor is switched on or Motion Stairway 4-Sensor is switched on then wait 30 seconds set Stairway 3-way status off 1
sdynak Posted July 8, 2022 Author Posted July 8, 2022 1 minute ago, MrBill said: Oops you're correct. (I was typing off the top of my head and not referring to the admin console). If Motion Stairway 1-Sensor is switched on (i.e. control) or Motion Stairway 2-Sensor is switched on or Motion Stairway 3-Sensor is switched on or Motion Stairway 4-Sensor is switched on then wait 30 seconds set Stairway 3-way status off Awesome! Didn't think of that. I'm getting dangerous here with options :). 1
MrBill Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 One thing to note" The behavior hear will change slightly, but likely for the better. When the motion is tasked with sending Off then the off will occur at the end of the first motion tripped delay. with the program above the 30 second countdown will restart with each motion trip there for off will come 30 seconds after the last motion trip.
sdynak Posted July 8, 2022 Author Posted July 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, MrBill said: One thing to note" The behavior hear will change slightly, but likely for the better. When the motion is tasked with sending Off then the off will occur at the end of the first motion tripped delay. with the program above the 30 second countdown will restart with each motion trip there for off will come 30 seconds after the last motion trip. Honestly, that might actually be ok over manually controlling the switches to keep it on. The main issue I really had is cleaning the stairs believe it or not. The lights would keep going off on me and was annoying. If the off timing is longer each time motion is triggered it might be ok just with that. I think I have insight on this one now with your help to get me in trouble LOL. The stairs are not well lit even in the day where they are positioned in the house so the 10% is fine most times day & night. I really don't need 100% when it is dark with these LED's. They are pretty bright. Just need enough light to see & clean. Thanks again.. 1
larryllix Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) Most advice is to never use automatic lighting in staircases. It is dangerous, as the sudden darkness makes people freeze and they can fall down the stairs from the sensory/brain confusion it causes. Edited July 8, 2022 by larryllix 1
sdynak Posted July 8, 2022 Author Posted July 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, larryllix said: Most advice is to never use automatic lighting in staircases. It is dangerous, as the sudden darkness makes people freeze and they can fall down the stairs from the sensory/brain confusion it causes. Appreciate the advice. This arrangement has been like this for years and it is just me and the wife these days. Never had any issues other than really cleaning where I needed the light to stay on longer. Otherwise the 30 seconds has worked well and it is never completely dark when it is not on. I have a nightlight at the bottom of the stairs as I don't have it come on overnight anyway.
MrBill Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, sdynak said: The lights would keep going off on me and was annoying. This will solve that problem. Motion on, program timer off is a great setup especially with multiple motion detectors since off comes X Seconds after the LAST detector saw motion. 1
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