On going reliability issues Can someone explain this?

[stevehoyt]

I am still fighting on going reliability issues. I have made progress but saw this last night and am confused. Can someone explain what I saw and what to do?

 

See comments and log below....Comments in CAPS

 

AT 6:00 A SUNSET SCENE DOES FAST ON OF 5 LIGHTS

 

Scene:Sunset Fast On 0 Sat 02/13/2010 06:00:35 PM Program

Driveway Lights Status 100% Sat 02/13/2010 06:00:35 PM System

Pool House Timerlinc Status 100% Sat 02/13/2010 06:00:35 PM System

Family Room Big Lamps Status 100% Sat 02/13/2010 06:00:35 PM System

Family Room Small Table Status 100% Sat 02/13/2010 06:00:35 PM System

Front Door Status 100% Sat 02/13/2010 06:00:35 PM

 

STATUS REPORTS 100% FOR ALL LIGHTS YET 2, POOL HOUSE AND FAMILY ROOM BIG LAMPS DID NOT TURN ON

 

AT 6:10 I RUN A QUERY PROGRAM OF ALL 5 LIGHTS. THE 2 THAT REPORTED 100% AND DID NOT TURN ON NOW SHOW 0% THE OTHER 3 SHOW NOTHING WHICH I ASSUME IS OK. STATUS IS 100% SO NO CHANGE IS REPORTED

 

System

Driveway Lights Status Query Sat 02/13/2010 06:10:35 PM Program

Family Room Big Lamps Status Query Sat 02/13/2010 06:11:05 PM Program

Family Room Big Lamps Status 0% Sat 02/13/2010 06:11:15 PM System

Family Room Small Table Status Query Sat 02/13/2010 06:11:35 PM Program

Front Door Status Query Sat 02/13/2010 06:12:05 PM Program

Pool House Timerlinc Status Query Sat 02/13/2010 06:12:35 PM Program

Pool House Timerlinc Status 0% Sat 02/13/2010 06:12:35 PM System

 

AT 6:13 I THEN RUN BACKUP PROGRAM TO TURN THEM ON ONE BY ONE. I HAVE 30 SEC DELAYS BETWEEN TO ENSURE NO COMM ISSUES. THIS WORKS AND THE 2 OFFENDING LIGHTS REPORT CORRECT STATUS AGAIN AND IN FACT ARE ON THIS TIME

 

Driveway Lights On 255 Sat 02/13/2010 06:13:05 PM Program Log

Family Room Big Lamps On 255 Sat 02/13/2010 06:13:35 PM Program Log

Family Room Big Lamps Status 100% Sat 02/13/2010 06:13:36 PM System Log

Family Room Small Table On 255 Sat 02/13/2010 06:14:05 PM Program Log

Front Door On 255 Sat 02/13/2010 06:14:35 PM Program Log

Pool House Timerlinc On 255 Sat 02/13/2010 06:15:05 PM Program Log

Pool House Timerlinc Status 100% Sat 02/13/2010 06:15:06 PM System Log

[upstatemike]

So your scene sends a group command and your backup sends individual direct commands?

[stevehoyt]

Yes that is correct.....first is a scene command, the backup sends direct commands. I realize the scene is failing and am still trouble shooting what is causing that.....that is a whole other topic that I have partially documented in another thread. I'll finish that thread when I have found the problem..

 

I believe what I am seeing, is what I think I saw written about in another post.

 

Namely the ISY sees the scene as OK unless it receives a NACK from the PLM.

 

So I am wondering if that is true? Why the scene fails and the incorrect status is not reported.

 

If that is true, are my lingering Comm issues causing the NACK to be lost.......or perhaps I have a bad PLM or something else.

 

Thanks for any help

 

Steve

[IndyMike]

Hello Steve,

 

To the best of my knowledge, scenes that are initiated by the ISY are predictive. In other words, the ISY "assumes" that the devices have responded properly and does not issue "cleanup" commands to verify the status of the receivers. This normally works well and dramatically increases the system speed.

 

I'm not sure whether your "backup" program is any different. I believe the ISY treats devices in programs in the same "predictive" form and assumes that they have responded properly (I'm trusting the ISY experts to set me straight if I'm incorrect here).

 

If the above is true (?), then devices that did not respond to the initial scene command should have a the same problem with the "backup program".

 

So why does the backup work? By turning on devices you are changing the impedance of your wiring (communication system). Simply turning on a 60 watt bulb can dramatically change the noise/signal level on a length of wiring (branch circuit).

 

In your case, you may have a situation where a "noisy" device is preventing device "B" from hearing the ISY. If you turn on device "A", a load is added to the circuit and device "B" can now hear the ISY.

 

The opposite is also a possibility - turning on a "noisy" device on a circuit may prevent others from hearing communications.

 

To diagnose this, try the following :

 

1) Scene test with all the "scene" devices off (this should produce the same 2 failures on your problem devices).

2) Scene test with all the "scene" device on (I'm hoping this will show 100% - not sure, because this is a tough test).

 

If test 2) works, you could try issuing a second scene "on" command within your program (quick fix).

 

If item 2) doesn't work, we'll need a bit more info including a description of the types of loads that you're activating and whether they are on common circuits.

 

Disclaimer - V.35 devices have been reported to have problems with scenes. I have very little experience with V.35 units. If some of these devices installed, please indicate that and consult the ISY experts.

 

IM

 

Edit - After reading the above, it gives the impression that the Insteon communications are "fragile". That is not at all the case. I would characterize my home as average size (4500 sq. ft.) with some above average problem devices. The devices include a Grunfos variable speed well pump (documented problem for UPB), six PC's/servers (signal absorbers), 30+ cfl's, 3 a/v systems (soon to be 4). I am currently using 1 filter (Toshiba laptop), and 1 accesspoint (hardwired X10 coupler at the panel).