Matter... And why do we care?

[doubleshot]

Just curious why do we care about Matter? It's been talked about for quite some time and still basically no devices support matter. With yet another protocol, what's so great about this one? I still think it's sad seeing the state of Insteon as it was still one of the best functioning protocols out there. 

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, doubleshot said:

Just curious why do we care about Matter? It's been talked about for quite some time and still basically no devices support matter. With yet another protocol, what's so great about this one? I still think it's sad seeing the state of Insteon as it was still one of the best functioning protocols out there. 

Most of us don't care overall. We just like new toys 😂

Edited September 18, 2022 by lilyoyo1

[larryllix]

I suspect it may be supported by future routers or firmware updates. It always seems to be just another protocol over the WiFi channels with possible repeating mesh.

Your WiFi routers may handle the distribution coverage better in your home.

[doubleshot]

2 hours ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Most of us don't care overall. We just like new toys 😂

I like new toys sure. We just keep hearing about Matter and I'm wondering if it's going to be like RCS. HA I'd love to see some unified protocol that makes it easier but in all the years I've been doing this. Matter doesn't look like everyone is going to jump on board. 

[lilyoyo1]

17 minutes ago, doubleshot said:

I like new toys sure. We just keep hearing about Matter and I'm wondering if it's going to be like RCS. HA I'd love to see some unified protocol that makes it easier but in all the years I've been doing this. Matter doesn't look like everyone is going to jump on board. 

Since Matter hasn't been released, it's a wait and see. Early on there may not be major changes but in time, it'll hopefully grow into something better than what we currently have. In the UDI world, it's a win win situation as it could potentially allow the use of devices we may not have the ability to integrate with 

[Techman]

4 hours ago, doubleshot said:

Just curious why do we care about Matter? It's been talked about for quite some time and still basically no devices support matter. With yet another protocol, what's so great about this one? I still think it's sad seeing the state of Insteon as it was still one of the best functioning protocols out there. 

Matter is available for the same reason you have health insurance, car insurance and homeowner's insurance.

Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

[brians]

2 hours ago, doubleshot said:

I like new toys sure. We just keep hearing about Matter and I'm wondering if it's going to be like RCS. HA I'd love to see some unified protocol that makes it easier but in all the years I've been doing this. Matter doesn't look like everyone is going to jump on board. 

https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/smart-home/matter-is-coming-fall-2022-fingers-crossed-but-what-is-it/

Now the question is... how does Polisy/EISY with Matter support integrate/fit-in with all of this? The ZMatter board Matter portion is based on Zigbee radio with promise of upgrading to Matter, but I also read about Thread which seems it is the actual radio portion, and matter is the protocol that runs on top of it, so does this board support both Matter and Thread - are they the same thing in this case of ZMatter board? Also, Matter devices can also support WiFi, so if they can connect to your WiFi system and in turn bridge to the same network as a Polisy/EISY would those also work somehow? I also read that some Matter devices may use Bluetooth LE. Are all matter devices going to be supported or is this going to be better done with an EISY?

As far as how ISY is going to work with Matter.. let's say that in near future I have my Polisy with ZMatter board... I purchase a new Matter compatible light switch. I currently use Amazon via ISY Portal and HomeKit using Homebridge. My ISY (on Polisy) is my main HA. How do I integrate this switch? Does anything change now with Matter really?

I would think that it is no different than if I purchase a Z-Wave device (or Insteon when was available)... I would pair it with the hub that I want... so in this case I would setup my Matter light switch with ISY Polisy/ZMatter and then continue to use Alexa integration through the portal.

I think the point of Matter is to just have devices support multiple platforms, not really for all the platforms to talk to one another. If I have all matter compatible devices and decide I want to leave ISY platform, I would just reconfigure them all using a new hub/system.

 

[lilyoyo1]

6 minutes ago, brians said:

https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/smart-home/matter-is-coming-fall-2022-fingers-crossed-but-what-is-it/

Now the question is... how does Polisy/EISY with Matter support integrate/fit-in with all of this? The ZMatter board Matter portion is based on Zigbee radio with promise of upgrading to Matter, but I also read about Thread which seems it is the actual radio portion, and matter is the protocol that runs on top of it, so does this board support both Matter and Thread - are they the same thing in this case of ZMatter board? Also, Matter devices can also support WiFi, so if they can connect to your WiFi system and in turn bridge to the same network as a Polisy/EISY would those also work somehow? I also read that some Matter devices may use Bluetooth LE. Are all matter devices going to be supported or is this going to be better done with an EISY?

As far as how ISY is going to work with Matter.. let's say that in near future I have my Polisy with ZMatter board... I purchase a new Matter compatible light switch. I currently use Amazon via ISY Portal and HomeKit using Homebridge. My ISY (on Polisy) is my main HA. How do I integrate this switch? Does anything change now with Matter really?

I would think that it is no different than if I purchase a Z-Wave device (or Insteon when was available)... I would pair it with the hub that I want... so in this case I would setup my Matter light switch with ISY Polisy/ZMatter and then continue to use Alexa integration through the portal.

I think the point of Matter is to just have devices support multiple platforms, not really for all the platforms to talk to one another. If I have all matter compatible devices and decide I want to leave ISY platform, I would just reconfigure them all using a new hub/system.

 

Matter is IP based so the Isy itself doesn't matter as much since it connects to your network. Thread and ZigBee share the same hardware so you just need a firmware update as Michel stated previously for thread support.

The how's and why's cannot of matter cannot be answered until it's actually released. All we can really do is guess. Regardless; we'll be ready when the time comes with the ZMatter board and/or eisy w/matter

[ryarber]

My question is, will this device function as a matter gateway for Insteon devices?


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[lilyoyo1]

7 minutes ago, ryarber said:

My question is, will this device function as a matter gateway for Insteon devices?


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That's the whole point of matter

[ryarber]

That's the whole point of matter

So, that’s a yes? With the momentum z wave is building here, I wasn’t sure that Insteon wouldn’t get left out of matter adoption here.


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[lilyoyo1]

3 minutes ago, ryarber said:

So, that’s a yes? With the momentum z wave is building here, I wasn’t sure that Insteon wouldn’t get left out of matter adoption here.


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It's not about the individual devices. It's the isy making the connection. No different than what we have now with Alexa/Google

Edited September 19, 2022 by lilyoyo1

[ryarber]

It's not about the individual devices. It's the isy making the connection. No different than what we have now with Alexa/Google

So, you’re saying any node in ISY should be shareable to the matter network? That includes nodes added from polyglot?


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[larryllix]

My question is, will this device function as a matter gateway for Insteon devices?


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No. Insteon is a different protocol, different hardware, different frequencies, and different concept.

That is like asking if the new Cadilac car model will support whale migration. They both can move around but totally unrelated how.

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[jec6613]

5 minutes ago, larryllix said:

That is like asking if the new Cadilac car model will support whale migration.

Only if you replace the Klingon food banks!

[ryarber]

No. Insteon is a different protocol, different hardware, different frequencies, and different concept.

That is like asking if the new Cadilac car model will support whale migration. They both can move around but totally unrelated how.

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So then, I shouldn’t expect this pairing to act as a matter gateway for Insteon devices?


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[lilyoyo1]

36 minutes ago, ryarber said:

So then, I shouldn’t expect this pairing to act as a matter gateway for Insteon devices?


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Why wouldn't it? As I stated earlier. The whole point of Matter is to create interoperability between your devices. 

Insteon devices on their own do not support Alexa or Google natively do they? No. You need a device that can to be able to use Alexa or Google.  If you add the isy (or compatible controller) to the mix, you can then use Alexa or Google to control them can you not? There's no difference with Matter. 

[bpwwer]

24 minutes ago, ryarber said:

So then, I shouldn’t expect this pairing to act as a matter gateway for Insteon devices?


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I don't think that question can be answered yet.  As far as I know, no one at UDI has started working on a Matter implementation. I haven't seen the board technical specifications yet, but I don't think the current board firmware even supports Matter yet. 

[lilyoyo1]

20 minutes ago, bpwwer said:

I don't think that question can be answered yet.  As far as I know, no one at UDI has started working on a Matter implementation. I haven't seen the board technical specifications yet, but I don't think the current board firmware even supports Matter yet. 

Michel stated Matter will be added via firmware update once its finalized. They included the hardware for it so that itll be ready when the time comes.

[bpwwer]

21 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Michel stated Matter will be added via firmware update once its finalized. They included the hardware for it so that itll be ready when the time comes.

Yes, that was my point, the current firmware doesn't support Matter and as such no software design  has been done so there is no information yet on how Matter support will be implemented within the Polisy/eisy environment.  

I don't believe the board manufacture has release the technical documentation for their Matter support yet.  So until we know what the hardware can actually do W.R.T. Matter support, there won't be any plans on how that support will be implemented in the UDI software stack.

[ryarber]

Yes, that was my point, the current firmware doesn't support Matter and as such no software design  has been done so there is no information yet on how Matter support will be implemented within the Polisy/eisy environment.  
I don't believe the board manufacture has release the technical documentation for their Matter support yet.  So until we know what the hardware can actually do W.R.T. Matter support, there won't be any plans on how that support will be implemented in the UDI software stack.

Okay, so the answer is TBD


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[larryllix]

2 hours ago, ryarber said:

Okay, so the answer is TBD


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Basically yes.

It will give ISY a new interface protocol that can be used for whatever else comes along and supports Matter.

eg: Say you buy a Matter wall switch and want to control Insteon lights. ISY can act as a translator between the Matter device and the Insteon device but directly conversing with each other, will never be possible.

[ryarber]

Basically yes.
It will give ISY a new interface protocol that can be used for whatever else comes along and supports Matter.
eg: Say you buy a Matter wall switch and want to control Insteon lights. ISY can act as a translator between the Matter device and the Insteon device but directly conversing with each other, will never be possible.

So, we should be able to control devices across platforms through ISY but this might not make homebridge obsolete… That’s my real question.


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[ase]

The real and true reason why we care about matter, because everyone else does. 

If matter was just some obscure concept from some small home automation company, we wouldn't be taking about it. However, Google, Apple and so on are on board and that means everyone is watching it and talking. 

Be it the next coming or a face plant, we have to care because a huge segment does, and likely will go wherever matter goes.

How will it work in reality? No one knows. Will it succeed? No one knows. In the tech world no one ever knows until it is rolled out, there are just too many factors that can't be accounted for in lab testing.

Edited September 20, 2022 by ase

[larryllix]

6 hours ago, ryarber said:

So, we should be able to control devices across platforms through ISY but this might not make homebridge obsolete… That’s my real question.


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No idea what Homebridge is and I never saw any questions about it here.

Edited September 20, 2022 by larryllix