Monitoring room status

[yardman 49]

Hello all:

 

I just wanted to get your ideas on the following:

 

- I want to write a program that monitors many different Insteon devices in my basement. As long as at least one of them is on, I want that reflected as a "backlight on" on a KPL in my kitchen. If all of the basement devices are off, then I want the Kitchen KPL button backlight to also be off.

 

I have my own ideas, but I don't want to miss anything. So your input would be appreciated.

 

Thanks you.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Frank,

 

I am not going to feign mastery of programs (I leave that for Chris) but, just in case you have not read the documents in our forum, I have to let you know that your Kitchen KPL button has to be in a scene for your programs to be able to activate its backlight. So, the first step is to make a scene called Basement Status and put your desired Kitchen KPL button in there.

 

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hello all:

 

I just wanted to get your ideas on the following:

 

- I want to write a program that monitors many different Insteon devices in my basement. As long as at least one of them is on, I want that reflected as a "backlight on" on a KPL in my kitchen. If all of the basement devices are off, then I want the Kitchen KPL button backlight to also be off.

 

I have my own ideas, but I don't want to miss anything. So your input would be appreciated.

 

Thanks you.

[yardman 49]

Hello Michel:

 

Thanks, Michel. Yes, I know that that button has to be in a scene, a "one-button scene".

 

So what I want to do is to write a program that monitors the status of all my basement lights, then only turns that "one button scene" off when all of my basement lights are off (and on when at least one of the basement lights are on).

 

This should be an easy program to write. But I just wanted to make certain that I didn't encounter any "gotchas".

 

I figured that Mark or MikeB or others may have ideas.

 

Best wishes,

[MikeB]

I currently have a couple buttons that I use for "1st floor off" and "2nd floor off". They're simply KPL buttons in non-toggle off mode that are controllers of all my switches.

 

I'd love to have some kind of indication that a light was left on, but I believe I'd need to take the button out of non-toggle mode to get that. I don't really like the idea of accidentally pushing a single button and turning all the lights/vents on.

 

Maybe if I had some extra buttons available on my KPL I could make one button an indicator like you're suggesting, but use a 2nd button in non-toggle mode off to actually turn the lights off.

 

What are your plans?

[yardman 49]

Hello Mike:

 

Thanks for the reply. Let me give more detail on what I've currently got set up.

 

KPL G in my kitchen is linked through a scene to all of the switch devices in the basement. They are all set as responders only. With a single push (in toggle mode) of the Kitchen G all of the basement lights come on. Also included are the basement KPL and all of the Togglelinc dimmers and relays that are part of the n-way circuits down there so that the status reflect properly.

 

The KPL G is only set as a responder to just one of the basement groups (scenes), that is the basement stairway group. So if the basement stairway lights go off, the Kitchen KPL G goes off. As most of the time the stairway lights are always on when the basement is occupied (even if in some other scenes they are called out as dimmed) that gives me a partially reliable status of the basement.

 

 

 

I can't make KPL G a responder to all of the lights for the following reason: the moment that one of the lights gets turned off from down in the basement, the KPL G backlight will also go off, and we wouldn't know that there really are lights still on in the basement.

 

Of course, this then creates the opposite problem: if the lights are all off in the basement, and someone from down there turns on any of the lights, the kitchen KPL G does not have the backlight go on.

 

Of course, this is the typical "scene" quandry. Nothing new here.

 

 

 

 

So, I'm going to write a program that just monitors the status of all of the downstairs lights, and the Kitchen KPL G will repond to the status of the basement light.

 

I already have a group (scene) created that only has KPL G in it, and I use that successfully in other programs.

 

I'll let you know what I work out.

 

Best wishes,

[MikeB]

Thanks. I'm very interested in how you make out. If I get some time over the next few days, I may experiment here as well.

 

Like I mentioned, in my master bedroom I have a KPL button that is a controller of the scene '1st floor off' that contains all of my 1st floor lights & vents. They are all responders of this scene.

 

The KPL button is set to non-toggle off so that I can simply press it before going to bed, and have everything downstairs turn off. Works great, but there's no real indication that something is actually on down there. It would be nice to have that indication.

 

An indicator light seems easy enough, I think... just make a program that says 'if light1 is on or light2 is on or light3 is on..." then scene "indicator1" is on. Else, it is off.

 

But, how do you make that same button control that group of lights? If I had room in my KPL, I'd just keep 2 KPL buttons. I'd keep my current '1st floor off' and make a '1st floor status' KPL button right above it that acts as an indicator.

 

Or is there a better way that I'm missing?

[yardman 49]

Hello Mike and everyone:

 

Ok, I was able to get the desired functionality to work. Here is what I did:

 

I had to write two programs. They are as follows:

 

*******************************************

 

program name: TURN KITCHEN KPL G ON

 

If

Status 'Kitch KPL G - Lower Level' is Off

And (

Status 'Bsmt Entry Dimmer - 2G' > Off

Or Status 'Bsmt Game Dimmer - 3G' > Off

Or Status 'Bsmt Sconce Relay - 3G' is On

Or Status 'Bsmt KPL A - Soffit Dimmer' > Off

Or Status 'Bsmt Family Dimmer - 3G' > Off

Or Status 'Bsmt Stairway Dimmer' > Off

)

 

Then

Wait 1 second

Set Scene 'Kitchen KPL G Group' On

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

*********************************************

 

program name: TURN KITCHEN KPL G OFF

 

If

Status 'Kitch KPL G - Lower Level' is On

And (

Status 'Bsmt Entry Dimmer - 2G' is Off

And Status 'Bsmt Game Dimmer - 3G' is Off

And Status 'Bsmt Sconce Relay - 3G' is Off

And Status 'Bsmt KPL A - Soffit Dimmer' is Off

And Status 'Bsmt Family Dimmer - 3G' is Off

And Status 'Bsmt Stairway Dimmer' is Off

)

 

Then

Wait 1 second

Set Scene 'Kitchen KPL G Group' Off

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

********************************************

 

Possibly there is a more elegant way to do this, so if anyone can think of one, please feel free to share.

 

"Kitchen KPL G Group" is a scene that consists of just the "Kitch KPL G - Lower Level" button. So the " Kitch KPL G - Lower Level" button status, in conjuction with the basement switch statuses, will cause the "Kitch KPL G - Lower Level" backlight to either go on or off as appropriate to the true status of the basement lights.

 

I found that I had to put a 1 second delay for the "Kitchen KPL G Group" status change in these programs. Otherwise, KPL button G (which is both the initiator and recipient of the program) was getting bombarded with traffic while the lights were turning on, which eventually caused the KPL to lock up.

 

I then had to go back an resolve some conflicts with other status changes that I have programmed into the ISY. But after fixing these, this seems to work well.

 

I wonder if this would work for you , MikeB. I haven't tried it with buttons in non-toggle mode, though.

 

 

Best wishes

[MikeB]

OK - here we go...

 

I've been playing with this a bit today, and haven't had much luck.

 

Like I said, to turn entire floors off at night I simply have a KeypadLinc Secondary linked as a controller to a scene containing the entire floor. This button is set to non-toggle mode off, so at night we simply press "1ST FLOOR OFF" and the entire first floor turns off. Since the button is a non-toggle off, you can't accidentally turn on an entire floor. Exactly what I want, with one limitation - we don't really know if there's anything actually left on.

 

 

1ST TRY:

 

First I created a scene called 1stFloorStatus. I added the button KPLH as a responder of that scene.

 

I then tried creating a group called 1stFloorAll. I added all my 1st floor lights to this group, and also added KPLH as a controller. I set this button to non-toggle OFF. I tested it's operation - the backlight is always off, and when I press the button it turns everything on the 1st floor off. Exactly what I want for control, but still no status.

 

I then created a program that said basically if any of the lights on the 1st floor had a status of ON, turn the 1stFloorStatus ON, else turn it OFF. This worked - if any of the lights were on, the KPLH button's backlight turned on. If I turned all the lights off, the backlight went off.

 

However, if any lights (and backlight) are on, and I press the KPLH button, it sends an ON command to all the lights - which I don't want. I only want to be able to turn the lights OFF from KPLH.

 

 

2ND TRY:

 

I again created the scene 1stFloorStatus containing KPLH, and created scene calle 1stFloorAll contraining all my 1st floor lights. However, this time, I didn't add KPLH to that scene.

 

Instead, I created a program that said if KPLH control is turned OFF, then turn off 1stFloorAll. I also kept the program that turned 1stFloorStatus on or off based on the status of the lights.

 

KPLH's backlight turns on and off depending on the status of the 1st floor lights - however, pressing the button to turn KPLH OFF doesn't do anything. I have a feeling this is because KPLH does not send a signal to the PLM when it is turned off.

 

Is this correct?

 

Any other suggestions?

[MikeB]

OK, correction - my 2nd try is now working. I realized the ISY wasn't getting status updates from my KPL unless I did a query. I removed and re-added the device, and now it's working.

 

So, here's what I've done, using my office as an example:

 

Created a scene called "OfficeStatusLight" which contains the KPL secondary button "OfficeKeypadH". This button will be used to turn off my office lights. Its backlight will be on if any of my office lights are on.

 

I also created a scene called "OfficeAll" which contains all of my office lights as responders.

 

I created a program called "OfficeStatusProgram", which runs the following:

If
       Status  'Office1' is On
    Or Status  'Office2' is On
    Or Status  'OfficeCounter' is On

Then
       Set  Scene 'OfficeStatusLight' On

Else
       Set  Scene 'OfficeStatusLight' Off

 

This allows me to see the status of my office lights. If any are left on, my "OfficeKeypadH" button will be lit up. However, I still don't have control. All I want is to be able to turn all the office lights OFF. I DON'T want the ability to turn them all on. So, I created the following program:

 

If
       Control 'OfficeKeypadH' is switched Off

Then
       Set  Scene 'OfficeAll' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

This allows me to turn all of my office lights off simply by pressing my "OfficeKeypadH" button to turn it off.

 

The only thing I didn't like about this is that if my office lights are off (which means the OfficeKeypadH is off), someone could accidentally press the keypad button to turn the backlight on, making it look like an office light was left on. To avoid this, I created the following "fix" program:

 

If
       Control 'OfficeKeypadH' is switched On

Then
       Set  Scene 'OfficeStatusLight' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

This will "correct" someone accidentally pressing that button, by immediately turning it back off.

 

This seems to be working well for me (at least in my initial testing). Anyone have any comments on how I might do this more efficiently? Am I missing something?

 

Also, if I wanted to have a single Keypad LED indicate if ANY light in my house was left on, I would have to create a huge program - with 60+ IF statements as conditions. Is this a problem for the ISY-26?

 

Thanks guys...

[MikeB]

One more question...

 

Why isn't this ELSE statement in my first program working?:

 

 Else 
       Set  Scene 'OfficeStatusLight' Off  

 

With this ELSE statement, I would think that if someone accidentally pressed my KPL status light to turn it ON, and all my office lights were OFF, that the status light would turn itself back off.

 

It doesn't seem to work like I would think, which is why I had to create my 'fix' program.

 

Can someone clue me in?

[Chris Jahn]

Mike,

 

These programs look like a good way to do this.

 

Also, if I wanted to have a single Keypad LED indicate if ANY light in my house was left on, I would have to create a huge program - with 60+ IF statements as conditions. Is this a problem for the ISY-26?

 

This is not a problem for the ISY-26, you can have any number of conditions.

 

Why isn't this ELSE statement in my first program working?:

 

The ELSE isn't running because the actual status of those lights hasn't changed, and thus the program won't run. You could change your fix program as follows, so that if someone does fast on, brighten etc. with Keypad H it will still turn off the backlight:

 

If
       Program 'OfficeStatusProgram' is False
   And Status  'OfficeKeypadH' is not Off

Then
       Set  Scene 'OfficeStatusLight' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[MikeB]

Awesome, thanks! Should I remove that ELSE command then? It seems like it's useless.

[Chris Jahn]

Yes, the original ELSE command can be removed if you use the fix program I posted.

[MikeB]

OK, I went ahead and reprogrammed all my 1st/2nd floor off buttons per my posts above, and it seems to be working great!

 

Only downside is there is a 1 second or so delay from when I press the 'off' button to when the lights shut off (because that button press is executing a program on the ISY, whereas before it was directly linked to the appropriate lights). The obvious upside is that I now have an LED that tells me when a light was left on, which is real nice.

 

I did make a couple changes:

 

1 - In my IF conditions to check the status of my lights, instead of listing EVERY light I only listed the load controlling ones. So, if light1 and light2 were switches in a virtual 3-way circuit, the program would only check to see if light1 was on. Also, I only check the switches themselves - not any lamp modules, which are only on if a linked switch is on anyway. Even though Chris said the ISY could handle tons of conditions, I'd rather make my programs as simple as possible.

 

2 - In my example above, my condition checked to see if my lights were ON. This is fine in my office, where my switches are all relays. However, in my final programs, I checked to see if the switches were NOT OFF instead to account for any dimmed lights.

 

Here are my final 1st floor programs. For my 1st floor, I created 2 "fix" programs because I have 2 separate keypad buttons that need to show the status and control:

 

 

FLOOR 1 STATUS UPDATE

If
       Status  'Bathroom1stLaundry1' is not Off
    Or Status  'Bathroom1stMirror1' is not Off
    Or Status  'Bathroom1stVent1' is not Off
    Or Status  'FoyerMain1' is not Off
    Or Status  'KitchenBar1' is not Off
    Or Status  'KitchenMain1' is not Off
    Or Status  'KitchenSink1' is not Off
    Or Status  'KitchenTable1' is not Off
    Or Status  'LivingRoomControls1A' is not Off
    Or Status  'LivingRoomMain1' is not Off
    Or Status  'PlayRoomMain1' is not Off

Then
       Set  Scene 'Floor1StatusLight' On

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

FLOOR 1 CONTROL

If
       Control 'FoyerControls1G' is switched Off
    Or Control 'MasterBedControls1G' is switched Off

Then
       Set  Scene 'Floor1Off' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

FLOOR 2 STATUS FIX 1

If
       Program 'Floor 1 Status Update' is False
   And Status  'FoyerControls1G' is not Off

Then
       Set  Scene 'Floor1StatusLight' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

FLOOR 1 STATUS FIX 2

If
       Program 'Floor 1 Status Update' is False
   And Status  'MasterBedControls1G' is not Off

Then
       Set  Scene 'Floor1StatusLight' Off

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[yardman 49]

I did make a couple changes:

 

1 - In my IF conditions to check the status of my lights, instead of listing EVERY light I only listed the load controlling ones. So, if light1 and light2 were switches in a virtual 3-way circuit, the program would only check to see if light1 was on. Also, I only check the switches themselves - not any lamp modules, which are only on if a linked switch is on anyway. Even though Chris said the ISY could handle tons of conditions, I'd rather make my programs as simple as possible.

 

2 - In my example above, my condition checked to see if my lights were ON. This is fine in my office, where my switches are all relays. However, in my final programs, I checked to see if the switches were NOT OFF instead to account for any dimmed lights.

 

 

Hello Mike:

 

I really like to way you optimized your programs. I had also come to the same conclusions:

 

For point #2, that is exactly what I did for my program, for the same reason: if a light is dimmed, it really is not "on", but neither is it off. So I used ">OFF", rather than ON.

 

And for point #1, I took the same approach: only the load controlling devices need be included foir monitoring. The moment they get turned on by another controller, then their status gets read back to the ISY as ">OFF" (or "ON" for a Togglelinc) and thus the program runs anyway since it sees that the load device has switched on.

 

Best wishes

[Chuck]

I'm glad I'm not the only one working on this...

I have an 'ALL OFF' button E on a KPL I use for 2 purposes:

1) To turn off everything when pressed (the LED status is then on).

2) Monitor the status of all loads and be a status indicator of whether or not all devices are actually off.

For part 1:

 

If

Control 'Living Room - ALL OFF' is switched On

Or Control 'Office Ceiling Light (load)' is switched Fast Off

Or Control 'Office - Living Room Lamp' is switched Fast Off

 

Then

Set Scene 'ALL OFF (program-activated)' Fast Off

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Where Scene 'ALL OFF (program-activated)' contains all devices and KPL buttons. This has been working fine.

 

For part 2:

 

If

Status 'Basement Playroom Lights (loa' is Off

And Status 'Dining Room - DECK' is Off

And Status 'Dining Room - LIGHT (load)' is Off

And Status 'Dining Room - YARD' is Off

And Status 'Dining Room Ceiling Fan (load' is Off

And Status 'Kitchen Ceiling Lights (load)' is Off

And Status 'Kitchen Sink Light (load)' < 40%

And Status 'Living Room Ceiling (load)' is Off

And Status 'Living Room Lamp (load)' is Off

And Status 'Office Ceiling Light (load)' is Off

 

Then

Wait 2 seconds

Set Scene 'ALL OFF LED' On

 

Else

Wait 2 seconds

Set Scene 'ALL OFF LED' Off

 

The problem: it works about 75% of the time. It sometimes fails when another scene is activated (which turns on some lights and therefore should turn off the 'ALL OFF' LED. Other times the LED won't turn on even though all lights are off and their status is correct on the ISY GUI.

I have experimented with "Wait" delays of 1, 2 and 3 seconds and 2 seems to be the most reliable.

I wish there was a written "best way" of accomplishing this. I would love for this to work reliably!

Any suggestions would be greatly appreatiated.

 

Thanks!

Chuck

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Chuck,

 

Without knowing what's in your All Off scene, it would be pretty difficult to figure out what's causing the issues.

 

As far as delays:

If your programs are based on the status of devices in a scene which then try to do something to the same scene, then the best delay would be 500 m.s. times the number of devices in the scene (the amount of time it takes for the group cleanup).

 

If you wish, please let me know what you have in your All Off scene and then we go from there.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one working on this...

I have an 'ALL OFF' button E on a KPL I use for 2 purposes:

1) To turn off everything when pressed (the LED status is then on).

2) Monitor the status of all loads and be a status indicator of whether or not all devices are actually off.

For part 1:

 

If

Control 'Living Room - ALL OFF' is switched On

Or Control 'Office Ceiling Light (load)' is switched Fast Off

Or Control 'Office - Living Room Lamp' is switched Fast Off

 

Then

Set Scene 'ALL OFF (program-activated)' Fast Off

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Where Scene 'ALL OFF (program-activated)' contains all devices and KPL buttons. This has been working fine.

 

For part 2:

 

If

Status 'Basement Playroom Lights (loa' is Off

And Status 'Dining Room - DECK' is Off

And Status 'Dining Room - LIGHT (load)' is Off

And Status 'Dining Room - YARD' is Off

And Status 'Dining Room Ceiling Fan (load' is Off

And Status 'Kitchen Ceiling Lights (load)' is Off

And Status 'Kitchen Sink Light (load)'

And Status 'Living Room Ceiling (load)' is Off

And Status 'Living Room Lamp (load)' is Off

And Status 'Office Ceiling Light (load)' is Off

 

Then

Wait 2 seconds

Set Scene 'ALL OFF LED' On

 

Else

Wait 2 seconds

Set Scene 'ALL OFF LED' Off

 

The problem: it works about 75% of the time. It sometimes fails when another scene is activated (which turns on some lights and therefore should turn off the 'ALL OFF' LED. Other times the LED won't turn on even though all lights are off and their status is correct on the ISY GUI.

I have experimented with "Wait" delays of 1, 2 and 3 seconds and 2 seems to be the most reliable.

I wish there was a written "best way" of accomplishing this. I would love for this to work reliably!

Any suggestions would be greatly appreatiated.

 

Thanks!

Chuck

[Chuck]

Michel,

 

The devices in the ALL OFF scene include:

(1) SwitchLinc Relay Timer v.63

(1) In-LineLinc Relay v.2A

(1) 2476DH SwitchLinc Dimmer v.28

(4) SwitchLinc Dimmers v.27

(2) KeypadLinc Dimmers v.29 with (1) load-button and ( sub-buttons

(2) LampLincs v.28

All are responders.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks,

Chuck

[Chuck]

Sorry - I forgot to diable smilies:

 

Michel,

 

The devices in the ALL OFF scene include:

(1) SwitchLinc Relay Timer v.63

(1) In-LineLinc Relay v.2A

(1) 2476DH SwitchLinc Dimmer v.28

(4) SwitchLinc Dimmers v.27

(2) KeypadLinc Dimmers v.29 with (1) load-button and ( sub-buttons

(2) LampLincs v.28

All are responders.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks,

Chuck

[IndyMike]

Chuck,

You and I are doing very similar things (right down to using Keypad E for alloff/allon). While I don't see anything wrong with your "alloff LED trigger", I'm using inverted logic (or's) and things appear to be working (actually this is shameless plagiarism of an example from MikeB - thanks Mike) . The following is how your trigger would look with the logic inverted.

 

• if
  Status 'Basement Playroom Lights (loa' > Off
  or Status 'Dining Room - DECK' > Off
  or Status 'Dining Room - LIGHT (load)' > Off
  or Status 'Dining Room - YARD' > Off
  or Status 'Dining Room Ceiling Fan (load' > Off
  or Status 'Kitchen Ceiling Lights (load)' > Off
  or Status 'Kitchen Sink Light (load)' > 40%
  or Status 'Living Room Ceiling (load)' > Off
  or Status 'Living Room Lamp (load)' > Off
  or Status 'Office Ceiling Light (load)' > Off
   
  Then
  Wait 2 seconds
  Set Scene 'ALL OFF LED' off
   
  Else
  Wait 2 seconds
  Set Scene 'ALL OFF LED' on

[Michel Kohanim]

IndyMike,

 

YES! Thank you so very much. In effect:

Chuck's program requires everything to be off and there might actually be a device at 10% which makes the program not run.

 

Chuck,

 

Would you please try IndyMike's suggestion and let me know how it turns out.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Chuck]

Tried it, but this does not solve the problem.

I just checked the Adminstrative Console and it states my Dining Room Light (load) KeypadLinc Dimmer (2486D) is ON (it's not and the device itself indicates it is 100% off).

[Chuck]

Also...

I just pressed the 'Light Off' button (the bottom button in a 6-button configuration) and this did correct the status in the Administrative Console and the 'ALL OFF' button on the other KeypadLinc turned on (as it should).

The 'Light Off' button was already lit before I pressed it. Why would the status be wrong in the Admin Console?

[MikeB]

Some kind of communication issue. Test it a bunch of times - "on, off, on, off"... see if you can get it to go out of sync.