Adding New Insteon Device

[bwade913]

Am I missing something, or is adding a new Insteon device needlessly difficult? Auto Discover never identifies the device type, and the pull-down menu is not searchable or sorted by device type number. It is sorted my some hex values on the lefthand column. Is there a way to find out which hex value corresponds to a device type number?

I thought that the UD Mobile app might have improved support for adding Insteon devices, but it doesn't appear to support it at all.

BTW, my forum status is "new", but I go back over 10 years, and started programming Insteon devices with the ISY26. It's always been like this.

[lilyoyo1]

I've never had a single issue with adding devices. It takes me about 5 seconds. What steps are you taking to add a device

[Techman]

Actually adding a new Insteon device via the admin console is quite simple. Click on "Link Management", "New Insteon Device", then enter the device's address xx.xx.xx and then click OK.

It's always best to have your ISY updated to the latest firmware to ensure compatibility with the device you're adding.

[bwade913]

I've never been able to add a device with the address alone. I have to define the device type using the pull-down menu with dozens of unsorted device type values. I'm currently using an Eisy with v5.5.4. This has always been the case with my ISY devices including recently with an ISY994i.

Trying to use auto-discover results in the error "Cannot determine Insteon Engine". This just occurred with a 2636-222 On/Off switch.

Edited January 25, 2023 by bwade913

[Techman]

"Cannot Determine Insteon Engine" indicates that the PLM is unable to communicate with the device. This can be a result of noise on the power line, a defective device, or an inadequate Insteon mesh network.

When you enter the device address in the linking window make sure you have the correct address and that each 2nd digit is separated by a period. (xx.xx.xx)

Make sure your PLM is not on the same circuit as a UPS, or any other device that uses a power supply. A FilterLinc between a UPS, etc. will eliminate Insteon power line interference.

[bwade913]

My system is otherwise working fine, and if this were a noise issue, I don't think I'd be able to successfully add the device when I manually specify the device type.

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, bwade913 said:

I've never been able to add a device with the address alone. I have to define the device type using the pull-down menu with dozens of unsorted device type values. I'm currently using an Eisy with v5.5.4. This has always been the case with my ISY devices including recently with an ISY994i.

Trying to use auto-discover results in the error "Cannot determine Insteon Engine". This just occurred with a 2636-222 On/Off switch.

I suspect you're typing the address in incorrectly. What is a 2636-222? Do you mean 2635-222 plug in module? Have you tried start linking then press and gold the set button on the device

Edited January 25, 2023 by lilyoyo1

[bwade913]

Yes, sorry for the typo, I did mean 2635-222. Putting the device into setup mode doesn't help.

Anyway, the pulldown menu for setting device type is there for a reason, but it isn't very user friendly. It would be nice if it was searchable, or at least sorted by the device type number. They're not even grouped with similar device types. 

I don't mean to sound like a dissatisfied customer. My new Eisy is a great product, and my home automation is operating better than ever. I used to be an applications engineer for an electronics company and I understand the need to focus development on the next new product, but cleaning up long standing usability issues can also make a big difference.

 

[lilyoyo1]

49 minutes ago, bwade913 said:

Yes, sorry for the typo, I did mean 2635-222. Putting the device into setup mode doesn't help.

Anyway, the pulldown menu for setting device type is there for a reason, but it isn't very user friendly. It would be nice if it was searchable, or at least sorted by the device type number. They're not even grouped with similar device types. 

I don't mean to sound like a dissatisfied customer. My new Eisy is a great product, and my home automation is operating better than ever. I used to be an applications engineer for an electronics company and I understand the need to focus development on the next new product, but cleaning up long standing usability issues can also make a big difference.

 

What happens when you choose start linking then press and hold set button on the device?

[bwade913]

48 minutes ago, lilyoyo1 said:

What happens when you choose start linking then press and hold set button on the device?

It fails with the same error "Cannot determine Insteon Engine". 

Do you always put your devices into setup mode when you add them? I don't have to do that when I specify the device type manually, and that works reliably, but it's a pita to find the device in the menu.

[tmorse305]

22 minutes ago, bwade913 said:

Do you always put your devices into setup mode when you add them?

Yes if you use the Start Linking in the pull down menu.  See screen shot first line of the instructions.

I agree with others, it sounds like a noise issue.  Is there anyway to plug the new module in the same outlet as the PLM and see if that makes any difference?

Edited January 25, 2023 by tmorse305

[bwade913]

I don't have a problem programming or using my devices. The sole issue is that the automatic device type query doesn't work for me, so I set it manually. The pulldown menu provided to do that has poor usability. Try finding a number in a list of over 100 unsorted numbers, and you will get an idea why I think the usability isn't great. Once I do find the number in the menu, everything works fine. 

[kzboray]

@bwade913 As has been stated, this is either a PLM issue, PLM to ISY cable, or noise issue. There is an outside possibility it is a bad power supply on the ISY, but my guess is the PLM.

Now you could have a corrupted link DB on the PLM causing issues, or just a PLM going bad.

I'd replace the cable first and while you're at it if the power supply is more than a year old I'd replace that too. Easy cheap fixes. If neither of those fix the problem then as suggested I'd plug the next Insteon device you want to add into the same outlet as the PLM and click <Link Management> and then <Start Linking>. Once you've done that press the link button on the Insteon device. It should be immediately found automatically. If not you have a problem with your PLM.

To check your PLM I would first restore a known working Link DB. But the caveat is this needs to be a Link DB that worked before you started having discovery issues. If you don't have one. You can make a backup, then factory reset the PLM and try to do an automatic discovery again with a device located in the same socket. Once you're done testing you can restore the backup you made.

If it works, you know you had a bad Link DB and you will need to rebuild your system. If it fails, you can be sure the problem is the PLM itself. UD now offers a repair service, so open a ticket with them to have it repaired.

There is one last possibility that just occurred to me, and that's a bad SD card, but the symptoms don't fit with a bad SD card so I wouldn't put to much weight on that as a possibility. If you want to eliminate the possibility you can buy a new SD card then install a fresh copy of the ISY OS on it using the normal update process using the files on the UD web site, then try linking a device rinse repeat the above process.

Edited January 25, 2023 by kzboray

[mwester]

26 minutes ago, bwade913 said:

I don't have a problem programming or using my devices. The sole issue is that the automatic device type query doesn't work for me, so I set it manually. The pulldown menu provided to do that has poor usability. Try finding a number in a list of over 100 unsorted numbers, and you will get an idea why I think the usability isn't great. Once I do find the number in the menu, everything works fine. 

This thread is kinda humorous to me -- this is what happens when you post on a forum full of techie geeks! 🙂

Everyone is trying to help, but I think that what you wish is simply validation of your issue: the pulldown menu to manually add a device by device type is poorly sorted.  Yes, I agree! (Regardless of whether anyone on this forum uses that menu item or even if they think it's a dreadful menu item to have, it's still poorly sorted!) 🙂

Filing a bug via a support ticket with UDI is probably not a bad idea.

[bwade913]

6 minutes ago, mwester said:

but I think that what you wish is simply validation of your issue: the pulldown menu to manually add a device by device type is poorly sorted. 

Well, I was interested initially in whether I was overlooking something simple, but now it just looks like something that works for everyone else (automatic device type query) doesn't work for me. 

Since I just upgraded to an Eisy, all my hardware including cables is new except for the PLM. The idea that I might have some corrupted data on the PLM that's interfering with the device type query is interesting, but surely the database of supported devices is updated with revision changes? This is a problem that's spanned many revisions, and several ISY devices.

I probably won't pursue this any further because, as I said, my system is working very well, and I have a work around for adding new devices.

[kclenden]

6 hours ago, bwade913 said:

It is sorted my some hex values on the lefthand column. Is there a way to find out which hex value corresponds to a device type number?

The hex values represent the device Category and Sub Category.  The best source I've found for translating a Category/Sub Category to an actual device is http://madreporite.com/insteon/Insteon_device_list.htm, though the way it's shown on that page still doesn't make it easy.  You'd really need to consolidate the information from the four tabs of the table on that page and then sort by Product ID before it'll really be useful to you.

1 hour ago, bwade913 said:

I probably won't pursue this any further because, as I said, my system is working very well, and I have a work around for adding new devices.

If you find yourself adding another device, and curiosity gets the better of you, start the Event Viewer (Tools->Diagnostics-Event Viewer) and set it to Level "3. Device communications events" before attempting the automatic device add.  Providing the log from that session may help determine why it doesn't work for you.

[bwade913]

51 minutes ago, kclenden said:

The hex values represent the device Category and Sub Category.  The best source I've found for translating a Category/Sub Category to an actual device is http://madreporite.com/insteon/Insteon_device_list.htm, though the way it's shown on that page still doesn't make it easy.  You'd really need to consolidate the information from the four tabs of the table on that page and then sort by Product ID before it'll really be useful to you.

 

Thanks, that's very helpful. I plan to consolidate the tables into one text file and then write a script that parses the text to translates the device type to the necessary hex code.

I'll run that test tomorrow.

[tmorse305]

Here's your list extracted from the AC.  There may be a few 'S' that came through as '5' but it's close enough I suspect.  I looked at the reference that was provided and there were some blanks in the sub categories so that approach may not yield as good a result as this one.

Insteon Device List.xlsx

Edited January 26, 2023 by tmorse305