i3 Insteon dimmers working in IoX 5.5.4

[lilyoyo1]

1 hour ago, MrBill said:

I think they changed the firmware between nokia test and now.  the insteon branded devices only have basic instructions only so far tho.

 

I'll have to see if that works on all of them tonight

[Bumbershoot]

1 hour ago, lilyoyo1 said:

Unfortunately it can't unless they've updated something. At least during the test phase, it had to be done via the Nokia Smart lighting software. The paddle and kpl both show up as if they were relays. You can change that behavior in the Smart lighting app though.

Looks like it does work as a switch, as well.  The instructions in the Quick Start Guide worked.

EDIT:  Successfully set it back to dimmer mode as well.  That functionality seems to work.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Bumbershoot

[lilyoyo1]

11 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

Looks like it does work as a switch, as well.  The instructions in the Quick Start Guide worked.

EDIT:  Successfully set it back to dimmer mode as well.  That functionality seems to work.

I have the test versions. I'm going to see if it works with those too tonight.

[kclenden]

5 hours ago, Goose66 said:

The way original Insteon devices worked is that they were in a scene with a Hub or PLM as a controller (the first scene in the scene list). So when you changed state locally it would broadcast equivalent messages to all the scenes that it was a controller in, which included the Hub or PLM.

I suspect you've hit the nail on the head here.  My guess is that since the ISY/eISY sees it as an unsupported device, it is not creating the appropriate links in the device so that it is a controller for a scene that includes the PLM.  Thus the I3 device may well be acting like any other Insteon device, and the ISY does not get status updates only because the ISY did not setup the appropriate links.

[kclenden]

1 hour ago, Bumbershoot said:

Looks like it does work as a switch, as well.

Would you post the device's Links Table?  Right-click on the device choose Diagnostics->Show Device Links Table.

[Bumbershoot]

7 minutes ago, kclenden said:

Would you post the device's Links Table?  Right-click on the device choose Diagnostics->Show Device Links Table.

Here you go.

 

This second screenshot may be more interesting:

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Bumbershoot

[kclenden]

23 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

This second screenshot may be more interesting:

That is interesting.  The Device's Links Table indeed does not have the scene link that would include the PLM which explains why you're not getting status updates from the device.  But the ISY Links Table for the device (your second screenshot) does.  So that seems to indicate that at some point the ISY tried to, and maybe did, create the correct links in the Device.  Would you try right-clicking the device and choosing "Restore Device"?  If that is successful, then you should start receiving status updates from the device.

[Bumbershoot]

7 minutes ago, kclenden said:

Would you try right-clicking the device and choosing "Restore Device"?  If that is successful, then you should start receiving status updates from the device.

Okay, I did a restore.  Here's a screenshot of the link tables.  The device still isn't updating the status in the AC, however.

 

[Bumbershoot]

This may be interesting.  If I turn on/off the scene from the other SwitchLinc dimmer in the scene (which is also a controller), then the "Status" for this i3 device updates in the AC.  The "Status" only fails to update when the i3 device is controlled locally.  Controlled from the AC or other linked devices, then the "Status" updates normally.

[lilyoyo1]

13 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

This may be interesting.  If I turn on/off the scene from the other SwitchLinc dimmer in the scene (which is also a controller), then the "Status" for this i3 device updates in the AC.  The "Status" only fails to update when the i3 device is controlled locally.  Controlled from the AC or other linked devices, then the "Status" updates normally.

I don't think the Isy actually checks the status of devices in a scene. It assumes the device state which is probably why it shows up

[hart2hart]

I don't think the Isy actually checks the status of devices in a scene. It assumes the device state which is probably why it shows up

When ISY adjust a scene, it sets their status based on what is commanded not feedback from the devices meAning the actual status and ISY status may not be in sync. When a scene is controlled locally, I see them individually sending in their status as an update to PLM and hence ISY.

[kclenden]

1 hour ago, Bumbershoot said:

The device still isn't updating the status in the AC, however.

That's interesting since if I read the Device Links Table correctly, the last line (E2 01 4A A3 BA 01 00 01) indicates that the device is a controller for the PLM.  Your PLM address is 4A.A3.BA, isn't it?  You can check via Tools->Diagnostics-PLM Info/Status.  If it is, then that would suggest that the PLM Links Table is missing a link indicating that it is a responder to the device.  We could try scanning the PLM Links Table for the appropriate link, but since it is likely hundreds of lines long, it might just be easier to delete the device from the ISY and re-add it to see if the missing link is created.  If you want to scan the PLM Links Table, you'd look for anything that has 60.11.12 in the middle of the line.  If the line starts with an E2 it means the PLM controls the device, and if it begins with an A2 it means the PLM responds to that device.

Edit: Unless the PLM has a link that says it responds to a device, it won't accept any traffic from the device, and thus no communication will be reported in the Event Viewer.

Edited January 30, 2023 by kclenden

[Bumbershoot]

8 minutes ago, kclenden said:

Your PLM address is 4A.A3.BA, isn't it?

Yes, it is.  I found 3 instances of this device in the link table.

 

[kclenden]

13 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I found 3 instances of this device in the link table.

Well I'm mystified now.  The top line indicates the PLM is a responder to the device and it matches up with the last line of the Device Links Table you posted.  I know in your initial testing you said that you didn't see any communication from the device in the Event Viewer when you controlled the device locally.  After you performed the Restore Device, did you try looking for communication in the Event Viewer when you controlled the device locally?

[Bumbershoot]

12 minutes ago, kclenden said:

After you performed the Restore Device, did you try looking for communication in the Event Viewer when you controlled the device locally?

No, it never occurred to me to do that.  Good news, though, this data is from a quick on and off from the device:

Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:13 : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 60.11.12 00.00.01 CF 11 00    LTONRR (00)
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:13 : [Std-Group   ] 60.11.12-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:13 : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 60.11.12 4A.A3.BA 40 11 01    LTONRR (01)
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:13 : [Std-Cleanup ] 60.11.12-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=0, Hops Left=0
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:13 : [INST-DUP 2  ] Previous message ignored.
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:13 : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 60.11.12 11.02.01 CF 06 00           (00)
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:13 : [Std-Group   ] 60.11.12-->11.02.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:13 : [INST-INFO   ] Previous message ignored.
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:14 : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 60.11.12 00.00.01 CF 13 00    LTOFFRR(00)
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:14 : [Std-Group   ] 60.11.12-->Group=1, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:14 : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 60.11.12 4A.A3.BA 40 13 01    LTOFFRR(01)
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:14 : [Std-Cleanup ] 60.11.12-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=0, Hops Left=0
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:14 : [INST-DUP 2  ] Previous message ignored.
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:14 : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 60.11.12 4A.A3.BA 45 13 01    LTOFFRR(01)
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:14 : [Std-Cleanup ] 60.11.12-->ISY/PLM Group=1, Max Hops=1, Hops Left=1
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:14 : [INST-DUP 2  ] Previous message ignored.
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:15 : [INST-SRX    ] 02 50 60.11.12 13.02.01 CF 06 00           (00)
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:15 : [Std-Group   ] 60.11.12-->13.02.01, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=3
Mon 01/30/2023 14:32:15 : [INST-INFO   ] Previous message ignored.

 

[kclenden]

29 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

I found 3 instances of this device in the link table.

By the way, from those links we can tell that the device reported to the ISY that it belongs to Device Category (01), Device Subcategory (58), and is Version 54.

Device Category 01 refers to "Dimmable Lighting Control".  Device Subcategory 58 is unknown to the ISY.

[kclenden]

2 minutes ago, Bumbershoot said:

Good news, though, this data is from a quick on and off from the device

That is good news.  It means the device is acting like any other Insteon device.  What I don't see in that log is any indication that the ISY is acting on those status messages.  So I'm left to assume that the ISY is ignoring them because the Device Subcategory is unknown.

[Bumbershoot]

32 minutes ago, kclenden said:

That is good news.  It means the device is acting like any other Insteon device.  What I don't see in that log is any indication that the ISY is acting on those status messages.  So I'm left to assume that the ISY is ignoring them because the Device Subcategory is unknown.

Thanks for helping with this.  It's a nice device, and it I hope UDI and Insteon can make it possible for IoX to support it.

[MrBill]

15 hours ago, Bumbershoot said:

Thanks for helping with this.  It's a nice device, and it I hope UDI and Insteon can make it possible for IoX to support it.

Based on my understanding of @kclenden's analysis above it doesn't seem like it a lot needs to happen for basic support.   On the other hand UD seems to have bigger fires at the moment, hopefully it's realized that just adding the sub-category and making this an identified device may create greater compatibility without too much effort.

[Bumbershoot]

41 minutes ago, MrBill said:

Based on my understanding of @kclenden's analysis above it doesn't seem like it a lot needs to happen for basic support.   On the other hand UD seems to have bigger fires at the moment, hopefully it's realized that just adding the sub-category and making this an identified device may create greater compatibility without too much effort.

Based on the use case I'm thinking of for a few of these devices, there doesn't seem to be any showstoppers in that they don't report "Status" based on local control.  I don't think I would have any need for programs to evaluate the status of any of the devices.  I would want to set up scenes, however, and possibly run a couple of "adjust scene" programs in the evening and early morning hours.  I might just purchase a few and retire some Zen77's.  Also, I like that they can act both as a dimmer and an on/off switch.  

Ergonomics matter, and I prefer the ergonomics (and performance) of Insteon hardware to the Zen77's.