"Diagnostics" view request

[yardman 49]

Hello Michel:

 

I know that you are thinking about introducing some rudimentary diagnostics at some point for the ISY.

 

This is just an idea that I have: how about a "comparison" view, where we can have two "panes": one is the links that the ISY "thinks" that a device has, and the other would be what it finds in the device. This would include manually added links, Houselinc links, etc. Whatever can be read off of the entire link table in the device.

 

I envision that this would be most useful if the links were "translated" by the ISY GUI, such that you would see the name resolution for a device alongside its device address. Of course, the name would only show up if it had been added to, and named in, the ISY. Otherwise, just the device address would be seen. So you would look at the KPL device ID "12.34.56.7" and right next to it would appear "Hall lights" or whatever you had named it.

 

And then a description of the link would follow, such as "responder link to device 'Kitchen KPL G'", etc.

 

If the two views didn't match (ISY versus device tables), then those links would appear in some color indicating the mismatch, and you could right click on that row and select from some appropriate choices to fix the links, such as "match this ISY link to device link table", or "match this device link to ISY table", etc. Maybe one choice could even be "ignore mismatch and flag as good", in the case where someone wants dissimilar links (such as when the same device is under two different controllers, and you don't want the error state being shown every time you're in the diagnostics)".

 

Anyway, that's my two cents.

 

Best wishes,

[gwarthur]

Hi, Michael. I would be happy with a simple 'sky view' depiction of all Insteon devices that the ISY-26 has discovered with lines between them representing the links. An 'orphaned' entry in a device's link table could be shown as a dashed line starting at the device but not connecting to anything. Links that have been unreliable recently could be shown in yellow.

 

Name resolution of the devices rather than just their hex addresses - as Yardman 49 suggested - would also be great.

 

-GA

[Sub-Routine]

GA,

 

Have you viewed the topology?

[Michel Kohanim]

GA,

 

As Rand suggested, you already have most of that capability in the Topology. To diagnostics release will have the orphaned/half links.

 

As far as name resolution, INSTEON devices do not retain any names and thus when ISY finds them it can only identify them by their addresses.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Hi, Michael. I would be happy with a simple 'sky view' depiction of all Insteon devices that the ISY-26 has discovered with lines between them representing the links. An 'orphaned' entry in a device's link table could be shown as a dashed line starting at the device but not connecting to anything. Links that have been unreliable recently could be shown in yellow.

 

Name resolution of the devices rather than just their hex addresses - as Yardman 49 suggested - would also be great.

 

-GA

[yardman 49]

GA,

 

As Rand suggested, you already have most of that capability in the Topology. To diagnostics release will have the orphaned/half links.

 

As far as name resolution, INSTEON devices do not retain any names and thus when ISY finds them it can only identify them by their addresses.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Hi, Michael. I would be happy with a simple 'sky view' depiction of all Insteon devices that the ISY-26 has discovered with lines between them representing the links. An 'orphaned' entry in a device's link table could be shown as a dashed line starting at the device but not connecting to anything. Links that have been unreliable recently could be shown in yellow.

 

Name resolution of the devices rather than just their hex addresses - as Yardman 49 suggested - would also be great.

 

-GA

 

Hello Michel:

 

What I meant about "name resolution" was that the ISY Diagnostics GUI would ideally perform the name resolution for us, as "My Lighting", "Scenes" and "Programs" currently do. Once a device is renamed in My Lighting, it shows up that way in the Scenes and in Programs. And even if you change the name again, the name change follows the device address in every view that you look at.

 

In the same way, if we have named a device in the GUI, it should persist everywhere, even in the Diagnostics.

 

Thanks much!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Frank,

 

Got it! Thanks so very much and sorry for the confusion.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

Hello Michel:

 

What I meant about "name resolution" was that the ISY Diagnostics GUI would ideally perform the name resolution for us, as "My Lighting", "Scenes" and "Programs" currently do. Once a device is renamed in My Lighting, it shows up that way in the Scenes and in Programs. And even if you change the name again, the name change follows the device address in every view that you look at.

 

In the same way, if we have named a device in the GUI, it should persist everywhere, even in the Diagnostics.

 

Thanks much!

[sfhutchi]

I know that you are thinking about introducing some rudimentary diagnostics at some point for the ISY.

 

I just wanted to also put my vote in for this one. This seems to be a gap with Insteon hardware. I don't know if the ISY should have to fill this gap, but since it collects much of these data already, it would be very helpful if it could highlight that certain devices are having more communication problems than others, etc.

 

Also, as a separate device, it theoretically could help continue to make Insteon bullet-proof. Not sure how feasible it is to have the ISY monitoring for all communication problems.. but at least with program commands, I would like the ISY to start monitoring for completion of the commands. Today the ISY marks the program as complete whether or not the devices changed as commanded.

[Michel Kohanim]

All,

 

Thanks so very much for the feedback ... we'll incorporate most, if not all, of this functionality in our diagnostic release. We just have to prioritize which ones take precedence.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[sfhutchi]

..... We just have to prioritize which ones take precedence....

 

Definitely understood. It amazes me how many of our suggestions and new innovations that you have been able to put into the products in such a short period of time. We are almost having trouble keeping up with the requests before you have them lined up for the next release.

[Illusion]

My 2 cents

 

I am jumping to the ISY from Indigo (Mac) so I may have some insight others do not have. As of today I have the most current Beta release of that software (2.5.0 b18) and it is great for trouble shooting. I can manually look at the link tables for devices (including the PLC) and it includes a live event log window with time stamping that uses dynamic naming as requested by Yardman 49. It is wonderfully intuitive and easy to use. If I did not have to leave a computer on all the time to take full advantage of its full feature set the ISY would have some serious competition there for me.

 

I am sure this post finds you too late for the diagnosis release, but if you get some time you may want to look at the way these features are implemented in Indigo. I was highly impressed. In fact, I still have Indigo set up just for the live event log window with dynamic naming. Seeing the names of your devices and what they are saying in realtime really helps with trouble shooting. It helped me fix some troubling X-10 programs in the ISY (wait times) that I could not figure out otherwise.

[Michel Kohanim]

Illusion,

 

You have not found us too late for the diagnosis release and we will surely take a look at all the best features that are out there.

 

Although not as comprehensive, using DBG option in the shell, you can see events as they happen in your Java console (including X10). Furthermore, in the shell, you have options (using SCAN) to:

1. read the whole PLM database

2. read a device database

3. read what ISY thinks a device database should look like

 

 

The only difference is for Indigo, everything is local. For ISY, everything has to be done as events to a node on the network and thus network traffic/performance ramifications should be taken into consideration. This information should also be readily accessible to other network agents for processing.

 

Thanks and with kind regards,

Michel

 

My 2 cents

 

I am jumping to the ISY from Indigo (Mac) so I may have some insight others do not have. As of today I have the most current Beta release of that software (2.5.0 b18) and it is great for trouble shooting. I can manually look at the link tables for devices (including the PLC) and it includes a live event log window with time stamping that uses dynamic naming as requested by Yardman 49. It is wonderfully intuitive and easy to use. If I did not have to leave a computer on all the time to take full advantage of its full feature set the ISY would have some serious competition there for me.

 

I am sure this post finds you too late for the diagnosis release, but if you get some time you may want to look at the way these features are implemented in Indigo. I was highly impressed. In fact, I still have Indigo set up just for the live event log window with dynamic naming. Seeing the names of your devices and what they are saying in realtime really helps with trouble shooting. It helped me fix some troubling X-10 programs in the ISY (wait times) that I could not figure out otherwise.

[Illusion]

Michel,

 

I know that you live and breathe this stuff, as do many of the users on this forum, but from the common users perspective, anything that has to be done in a shell with commands is not usable by the general public. I know this is not too relevant now with HA being for the rich and techo nerds, but it will be an issue if your vision of HA for the masses comes to being. I know I have read other cases here on this forum where you suggested using the Java console and DEBug and were met with confusion that required detailed explanation. Anyone who uses a forum for answers is already above the general public in resourcefulness; use of shell and consoles takes that quite a step further.

 

I know that for me it is not a huge issue, as anything I do not understand I know you will help me with, but someday you are not going to be able to personally help each user if your vision comes to pass.

 

Anything that you can put in the GUI with a pretty button to press for logging/debuging will result in less support needed for the end user.

 

I think your product is great. I am not sure that it will every get too mainstream with IF THEN statements, networking jargon, and Java Consoles though. I do recognize that the way the system is set up is exactly what provides for the infinite flexibility that has caused me to drop Indigo and use the ISY so I am not advocating big changes, but reducing the use of a terminal, shell, and command lines I think would be a good thing.

[Michel Kohanim]

Illusion,

 

All your points are well taken and we'll do our best to make everything more user friendly especially with our planned changes to our Admin Console.

 

Again, thanks so very much for your feedback and suggestions as this is currently our only vehicle through which we add/remove functionality.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Michel,

 

I know that you live and breathe this stuff, as do many of the users on this forum, but from the common users perspective, anything that has to be done in a shell with commands is not usable by the general public. I know this is not too relevant now with HA being for the rich and techo nerds, but it will be an issue if your vision of HA for the masses comes to being. I know I have read other cases here on this forum where you suggested using the Java console and DEBug and were met with confusion that required detailed explanation. Anyone who uses a forum for answers is already above the general public in resourcefulness; use of shell and consoles takes that quite a step further.

 

I know that for me it is not a huge issue, as anything I do not understand I know you will help me with, but someday you are not going to be able to personally help each user if your vision comes to pass.

 

Anything that you can put in the GUI with a pretty button to press for logging/debuging will result in less support needed for the end user.

 

I think your product is great. I am not sure that it will every get too mainstream with IF THEN statements, networking jargon, and Java Consoles though. I do recognize that the way the system is set up is exactly what provides for the infinite flexibility that has caused me to drop Indigo and use the ISY so I am not advocating big changes, but reducing the use of a terminal, shell, and command lines I think would be a good thing.