ISY backup fails

[bw23198]

Recently my ISY994 lost everything Insteon.  All my scenes, devices, etc. were mysteriously gone from the admin console.  So I decided to restore a backup.  My most recent backup was from a few months ago and I hadn't done much since then.  The restore went well and all of my devices were back again.  I added the delta node servers back since the backup was taken.  When done I tried to make a new backup.  However, it keeps failing around 71% saying it could not retrieve file /CONF/XXXXX.  I saw from other postings that the fix is to telnet to the ISY and type RF /CONF/XXXXX.  However, the filename is also corrupted and I'm not sure how I would type it at the keyboard.  I'm attaching the error I'm seeing.  Any idea how I can get past this error and make a new backup?

-Brian

[hart2hart]

Could this mean the SD card has gone bad and you should replace it before doing the restore?

[IndyMike]

@bw23198, as @hart2hart indicated, you likely have a corrupted file system on your SDcard.  The "bad areas" likely existed prior to you restoring your backup.  Now when you try to perform a backup the ISY cannot read the file structure.

Option 1 - While SDcards can go bad, it's somewhat rare.  Normally it's a power event while the card is being written to that causes corruption.  The failure rate of your power supply is far higher than the SDcard.  If you have seen "other problems" (reboots, warning lights, etc) check your power supply.  Spec's are on the Wiki.  There's also a thread here:

 

Option 2 - card contact issue

1. Remove the card/clean the contacts/re-install several times to see if it is a contact issue. 
2. Re-install your backup
3. Re-try backing up the system to see if you have file errors.

Option 3 - bad card (cards are pretty inexpensive).

@MrBillhas a rather nice post on upgrading the MicroSDcard here:

 

Best of luck - let us know what you find.

[MrBill]

14 minutes ago, IndyMike said:

While SDcards can go bad, it's somewhat rare.

I disagree.   With an ISY994 it's not a question of IF, but WHEN.   The most problematic thing an ISY is constantly write and re-write log files.  Over time that will result in failure.  New larger cards with the A1 rating will help, but not completely alleviate the issue.   (note the ISY doesn't have the hardware component to take advantage of A2 rating features, A1 is fine which is what most 32gb and smaller cards have anyway.)

It's also worth noting that my logfile turnovers were much smaller prior to node servers.  Prior to nodeserver the log file had months worth of entries.  After nodeservers the logfile held less than 24 hours.

[IndyMike]

1 minute ago, MrBill said:

It's also worth noting that my logfile turnovers were much smaller prior to node servers.  Prior to nodeserver the log file had months worth of entries.  After nodeservers the logfile held less than 24 hours.

@MrBill, your experience is very different than mine.  I've never had a SDcard issue.  I have had multiple power supply failures over the years.

Your comment on the node servers is interesting.  I have not used them and did not realize that they exercised the SDcard to that extent.  I did opt for a high endurance SDcard for my Home Assistant installation on the Raspberry Pi 4.  I knew I would be logging temperature data and exercising the card.

If what you are saying is true, the calculus for the memory card may have indeed changed.  Should we be putting out a general recommendation to the ISY community to upgrade their cards to High Endurance versions?  High endurance cards for ISY are moderately priced.  This could be cheap insurance for the ISY.

[MrBill]

2 minutes ago, IndyMike said:

I did opt for a high endurance SDcard for my Home Assistant installation on the Raspberry Pi 4.

If you read many HA forum or reddit posts, someone will inevitably say they use a SD card on a Pi4 for HA... and the replies will go nuts with people posting that it is an insane practice to even think about running HA on an SD card, and that the only correct method is to use an NVMe SSD.    That said, I run HA on a microSD card... first one failed after about 18 months, second one is a better quality card.  At my son's house his first failed after about 12 months, the second a better quality card failed in under 30 days (I'm guessing that was manufacturing defect).   One thing about HA tho is I always have a current backup because they occur every night automatically and upload to google drive.  (there's a nice add on for that)

19 minutes ago, IndyMike said:

Should we be putting out a general recommendation to the ISY community to upgrade their cards to High Endurance versions?

the ISY994 is on it's way out. but in general I've been harping for 4 or 5 years that a high quality card with an A1 rating should be used.  Watch out for the fake claims and fake names made by manufacturers tho, the memory card industry using fancy marketing names to attract and upgrade buyers....  A1 rating is the thing to look for. 

[hart2hart]

If deemed failed microSD card, the replacement instructions in wiki link:

https://wiki.universal-devices.com/index.php?title=ISY-99i/ISY-26_INSTEON:Replacing/Formatting_an_SD_Card

[IndyMike]

2 hours ago, MrBill said:

If you read many HA forum or reddit posts, someone will inevitably say they use a SD card on a Pi4 for HA... and the replies will go nuts with people posting that it is an insane practice to even think about running HA on an SD card, and that the only correct method is to use an NVMe SSD.    That said, I run HA on a microSD card... first one failed after about 18 months, second one is a better quality card.  At my son's house his first failed after about 12 months, the second a better quality card failed in under 30 days (I'm guessing that was manufacturing defect).   One thing about HA tho is I always have a current backup because they occur every night automatically and upload to google drive.  (there's a nice add on for that)

the ISY994 is on it's way out. but in general I've been harping for 4 or 5 years that a high quality card with an A1 rating should be used.  Watch out for the fake claims and fake names made by manufacturers tho, the memory card industry using fancy marketing names to attract and upgrade buyers....  A1 rating is the thing to look for. 

Thank you for the link to the backup routine.  That looks very useful.  I have been using the Sandisk A1 microSD cards in my cameras and Pi since 2019.  Very good experience with them.  I've been out of the industry since 2019, but it's hard to believe that things haven't improved in that time...

I did check my ISY994 card - it's a run of the mill Sandisk (reputable name) with no speed/endurance markings.  It is the original card.

Sorry for taking the thread sideways...

 

[bw23198]

So, I think it is, indeed, a bad SD card.  I removed the card and connected it to my PC.  I saw the corrupted file in the filesystem.  I tried to delete it but couldn't (confirming corruption somewhere).  I ran chkdsk and it found/fixed a number of errors.  However I still can't delete that file and still can't backup the disk due to the file.  Strange.

I think the path forward is to replace the disk.  I may give it a shot next weekend when I have some time.  

Thanks everyone!

-Brian

[bw23198]

I have a follow-up question now...

The instructions below say to install the latest version on a blank SD card, then restore the last backup that was taken before the corruption.  I'm currently running 5.3.0, and that's what my backup was taken under.  The latest version is now 5.3.4.  If I install 5.3.4 on a fresh SD card, can I then restore a backup taken from 5.3.0?

 

ISY-99i/ISY-26 INSTEON:Replacing/Formatting an SD Card - Universal Devices, Inc. Wiki (universal-devices.com)

[hart2hart]

I was able to locate the FW version I had at failure and installed it to keep number of change at minimum but I feel both would work.

[bw23198]

Following back up on this for reference...

It turns out the Micro SD card had some bad sectors.  I replaced it with a new SD card and followed the instructions above for the ISY-99i/ISY-26.  Restoring the 5.3.0 backup onto the newly installed 5.3.4 ISY994 was not a problem.  Thanks all for the help!