Troubleshooting a newly installed LiftMaster 8365W

[satwar]

Greetings everyone. 

I recently had a new garage door opener installed.  I managed to get the remotes working, but i have been unable to  get the isy interface working.  I thought it would be a simple job because I have a second door opener that works fine with another Insteon 2450 in the isy.   

There is obviously something wrong but I can't see it.  Any help appreciated

 

[Andy P]

Hi, probably need a bit more info to help. Can you describe a little more about what is working and what is not.

1. So you have the 2450 attached to the garage door using the COM and NO terminals?

2. You have the 2450 set to Momentary B mode?

3. When you say the remotes are working, is that the remote that came with the garage door or an Insteon remote paired to the 2450?

4. Have you been able to discover the device using the ISY and how does it show up?

5. What is not working with the ISY?

You can screenshot any info that could help the readers here provide advice.

Andy

[Brian H]

Does your control unit also do things like temperature display, light control ans power thhe display on it. All on a single pair of wires? If so you may not be able to short the pair with the 2450 relay output if it also carries data and power.  An indication would be the control display goes off. Every time the 2450 ties to open the door. I believe they do have a dry contact to their control adapter if needed.

The data Andy P asked for would be a big help.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Brian H
Fix a statement

[satwar]

10 hours ago, Andy P said:

Hi, probably need a bit more info to help. Can you describe a little more about what is working and what is not.

1. So you have the 2450 attached to the garage door using the COM and NO terminals?

2. You have the 2450 set to Momentary B mode?

3. When you say the remotes are working, is that the remote that came with the garage door or an Insteon remote paired to the 2450?

4. Have you been able to discover the device using the ISY and how does it show up?

5. What is not working with the ISY?

You can screenshot any info that could help the readers here provide advice.

Andy

Thank you for your response.

I have 2 Craftsman garage doors (139.108815) both working well with remote controls  wired and wireless.  I also had a Insteon 2450 operating and could activate the doors with Mobilinc HD interface.  All very nice but unfortunately one of the door opener motors failed and had to be replaced.  I thought this would be a simple task to configure since I had one working just the way i liked it.

The Left Door is working fine, but i'm having trouble with the Right Door

Following are the details to some of your questions:

(1) The 2450 is attached to the garage using the COM and NO terminals

(2) I have the 2450 set to Momentary C mode with 2 seconds

(3) All remotes are working on each door except the 2450 does not work on the 

(4) I have the isy detecting the 2450

[Andy P]

Thanks for the info. If you have it set to Momentary C, do you also have a sensor with set of contacts wired to the 2450? I'm pretty sure I was using Momentary B before switching to myQ openers but I can't be 100% sure. You could potentially try switching it to Momentary C and see if that works then go back to debugging mode C.

Momentary C Use the I/O Linc sensor input to determine whether the I/O Linc relay will trigger. An ON command’s desired state can be programmed to either open or closed. I/O Linc will use the opposite for the OFF command’s desired sensor state. For example, if an ON command is programmed to trigger only when the sensor is closed, an OFF command will trigger only when the sensor is open

[Brian H]

Does your opener have a Multi-function or Motion Sensor control?
Connected to the two wires from the opener and that is where you tried the 2450?
That would appear to have intelligent communications.
If the display goes off and reboots.
A direct pulse on those wires may not work as it shorts the power and data.
I did not see any information on a direct push button working in the manual.
Someone with that type unit could verify it a direct button is compatible with that opener.
You may have to get creative. Like adding a remote and then connecting the 2450 output directly
to the remotes push button.
That way you would not violate the warranty by directly soldering the 2450 output to the controllers button.

 

[satwar]

12 hours ago, Brian H said:

Does your opener have a Multi-function or Motion Sensor control?
Connected to the two wires from the opener and that is where you tried the 2450?
That would appear to have intelligent communications.
If the display goes off and reboots.
A direct pulse on those wires may not work as it shorts the power and data.
I did not see any information on a direct push button working in the manual.
Someone with that type unit could verify it a direct button is compatible with that opener.
You may have to get creative. Like adding a remote and then connecting the 2450 output directly
to the remotes push button.
That way you would not violate the warranty by directly soldering the 2450 output to the controllers button.

 

The insteon 2450 has a pair of wires running from the GND and S terminals on the 2450 and connects the door position indicators (open/closed).  Whenever the door is open the status led shows open, so at least that works.

There is a second  pair of wires running from the COM and NO on the 2450 and runs to the red & white terminals on the door opener.

Edited September 12, 2023 by WShellshear

[Brian H]

The S and GND connection sounds like it is detecting the door open or closed as it should. With the kit supplied sensor.

Is the NO and COM connected to the control wires for the opener?

My previous statement may have been confusing. Does the opener's two control wires connect to an intelligent control that also may have a built in motion sensor or malfunction buttons?

If you try and open the door. You may see the 12V pulse low for a moment as the 2450 tried to open or close the door. If it does show a brief  pulse. The 2450 sounds like it is trying to control the door. That should tell you if 2450 is acting correctly and if the opener can use a momentary pulse for control.

Your new opener may not act on a momentary pulse from the 2450. As some do not act on a momentary pulse. As they have intelligent controls and a simple pulse will not work. They have date and power for the controls on the same two control wires.

I have seen some reports on other forums using a pulse with the newer openers not working. There where some work around. Like the manufacturer makes an interface to use a momentary pulse. Getting a spare remote and soldering the wires for the 2450 to its on off button or opening the controller and soldering to its on off button.

[satwar]

1 hour ago, Brian H said:

The S and GND connection sounds like it is detecting the door open or closed as it should. With the kit supplied sensor.

Is the NO and COM connected to the control wires for the opener?

My previous statement may have been confusing. Does the opener's two control wires connect to an intelligent control that also may have a built in motion sensor or malfunction buttons?

If you try and open the door. You may see the 12V pulse low for a moment as the 2450 tried to open or close the door. If it does show a brief  pulse. The 2450 sounds like it is trying to control the door. That should tell you if 2450 is acting correctly and if the opener can use a momentary pulse for control.

Your new opener may not act on a momentary pulse from the 2450. As some do not act on a momentary pulse. As they have intelligent controls and a simple pulse will not work. They have date and power for the controls on the same two control wires.

I have seen some reports on other forums using a pulse with the newer openers not working. There where some work around. Like the manufacturer makes an interface to use a momentary pulse. Getting a spare remote and soldering the wires for the 2450 to its on off button or opening the controller and soldering to its on off button.

Yes, thank you, the Sensor seems to be toggling ON/OFF in sync with the door operation OPEN/CLOSED as desired. 

Now here comes the tricky part.  The COM and NO terminals on the insteon 2450 do connect to the door oontrols. This is where I get confuised

[Brian H]

You maybe able to hear the relay inside the 2450 if it is not too noisy around where the 2450 is located. When trying open or close the door.

The LED on the side close to the manual set button should also pulse bright and dim. As the relay pulses. That may give you a clue to see if the 2450 is actually trying to open or close the door. Tried both a V1.0 and V2.3 2450. Set to Momentary B (tried C also) 2.0 second On time. On both of them turning the relay On resulted in a 2 second bright LED indication on the side LED. If the LED does not pulse Bright. It is possible the Insteon command is not getting to the 2450.

Your meter did show the sensor changing. Another indication is the Green Sensor LED on the external wiring area.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Brian H
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[satwar]

19 hours ago, Brian H said:

You maybe able to hear the relay inside the 2450 if it is not too noisy around where the 2450 is located. When trying open or close the door.

The LED on the side close to the manual set button should also pulse bright and dim. As the relay pulses. That may give you a clue to see if the 2450 is actually trying to open or close the door. Tried both a V1.0 and V2.3 2450. Set to Momentary B (tried C also) 2.0 second On time. On both of them turning the relay On resulted in a 2 second bright LED indication on the side LED. If the LED does not pulse Bright. It is possible the Insteon command is not getting to the 2450.

Your meter did show the sensor changing. Another indication is the Green Sensor LED on the external wiring area.

Yes there is a bright white pulse of light on the led labelled SET on the insteon 2450.  The SENSOR light also shows up for a brief time as a bright green light.  I'll have to get some more details

[Brian H]

When it pulses do you see anything on the 12V on the NO and COM terminals? If you temporarily disconnect the wires on the NO and COM. Can you see with  continuity tester or ohm meter a pulse when it activates?

The bright LED pulse does indicate the 2450 is receiving the ON command.

[satwar]

13 hours ago, Brian H said:

When it pulses do you see anything on the 12V on the NO and COM terminals? If you temporarily disconnect the wires on the NO and COM. Can you see with  continuity tester or ohm meter a pulse when it activates?

The bright LED pulse does indicate the 2450 is receiving the ON command.

One thing that is confusing me is that the insteon 2450 for Left door does not produce a flash of very white light upon closing door, but the Right door does not.

[Brian H]

You may want to check the momentary mode choice on both sides and if both sides show the sensor On with the door in the same open or closed position.

Are both 2450 units the same revision or close to the same. The administrative console would also give you the firmware version.

The LED on the side indicates when the rely is On. When in the momentary mode it will pulse bright for the amount of time the relay pulsed On.

Momentary B sends the pulse. When its receives either an On or Off command. Momentary C takes into consideration the Sensor being On or Off.

Have  you found out if the new opener is even compatible with a dry closure pules. Intelligent ones may not like a dry contact pulse on their control wires.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Brian H
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[satwar]

2 hours ago, Brian H said:

You may want to check the momentary mode choice on both sides and if both sides show the sensor On with the door in the same open or closed position.

Are both 2450 units the same revision or close to the same. The administrative console would also give you the firmware version.

The LED on the side indicates when the rely is On. When in the momentary mode it will pulse bright for the amount of time the relay pulsed On.

Momentary B sends the pulse. When its receives either an On or Off command. Momentary C takes into consideration the Sensor being On or Off.

Have  you found out if the new opener is even compatible with a dry closure pules. Intelligent ones may not like a dry contact pulse on their control wires.

Wow you're keeping me busy.

(1) Both 2450 's are revision 1.5 as printed on the label  on the back of the device.  Isy says both are version 0.36

(2) The green SENSOR led is ON when the door is travelling (not making contact with floor magnet) and is OFF when the door is closed (making contact with floor magnet)

(3)  When the door is travelling (not CLOSED) and the door reaches the fully OPEN position, the green SENSOR led turns OFF and there is one bright white flash of the SET led

(4)  Both 2450's are set the same, Momentary C mode @ 2 seconds

(5)  I haven't asked Liftmaster about the compatibility with dry closure pulses because I don't know that much about electronics.  I read somewhere that the Liftmaster 8365W was obsolete. so there may be some hope that the old electronics design was still being used.

[atmarosi]

I had luck with my LiftMaster 8500 running the IO Linc COM + NO wires to the motor side of the wiring harness, not the button side of the red/white lines.  To rule out the IO Linc, jump the RED + WHITE momentarily (1-2 secs) and see if it does anything - make sure to insulate yourself as there is voltage on there.  If it does NOTHING; then the IO Linc will not be able to control it via this method (directly wired).  If that's the case I would look into using IFTTT with MyQ?

Seen others metion this device on Reddit in regards to not so smart garage door openers - and they have a great FAQ to show if their thing will work with your opener: Meross Smart Garage Door Opener Remote Control - MSG100

FAQ:  

[Brian H]

The compatibility check in the previous post. Would definitely determine if the 2450 dry contact output. Will control the door. Without any added interface or creative actions.

The connection on the motor side is the same as the control end of the same two wire cable and maybe where you already have the 2450 connected. Though either end should be the same signal.

[satwar]

well it's been a tough go but it seems the io linc 2450 is not compatible without going through more equipment.  I saw that the bright white SET led flashes on the up and on the way down, about  several seconds after the door starts moving.

I'm not sure why the SET light flashes differently than yesterday but the liftmaster opener is difficult to ensure the wiring is well connected to the wiring receptacle.

Thanks for all your help.