garybixler Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 I have a scene set up with a Z-wave nano on/off switch and a button on an Insteon 8 button wall switch. Both are defined as controllers. If the scene is executed both device respond as expected. When the button on the switch is turned on the z-wave device also comes on as expected. However if the z-wave device is turned on the scene doesn't get turned on so the button never gets lit. The z-wave device does show on in the scene. I am using a program to have the scene turn on/off from the state of the z-wave device. Was wondering if this normal for mixed intsteon z-wave devices or am I missing something? Tried many settings with no results. Thanks for any info.
trevorst Posted November 29, 2023 Posted November 29, 2023 That does seem to be normal with the latest Zwave release. I have three different mfgs Zwave devices and all three do the same thing. Only turns the controlled devices via scene call but also turns light when using switch. I think you may be able to have the light turn on via scene control by including the Zwave switch in the scene also. I remember seeing a post on this but have never tried it as I have the opposite issue, would like the light not to turn on from the switch.
garybixler Posted November 30, 2023 Author Posted November 30, 2023 It appears that a z-wave device can't be added as a controller even though the option is there and appears to be added that way.
oberkc Posted November 30, 2023 Posted November 30, 2023 I have the same issue. Some time in the past, I recall having a discussion with UD about this and came away with the impression that this was due to the fact that secondary buttons on a keypad switch cannot be directly controlled from the ISY. Of course, there is no direct link between the z-wave switch and keypad button. So...even though this keypad button is in a "scene", it appears that the ISY is trying to mimic an Insteon link between the z-wave and Insteon devices by sending direct commands to Insteon devices "linked" from z-wave devices. In my experience so far, this problem is limited to keypad secondary buttons. That is my theory and I am sticking to it.
garybixler Posted November 30, 2023 Author Posted November 30, 2023 I have found that if a secondary button is part of a scene it will respond to the scene status of on or off by being lit or not. I did try an Insteon on/off module and had the same results. The z-wave device does not become a controller for any device in the scene even if added as such. No idea if that is by design or an oversite.
oberkc Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 22 hours ago, garybixler said: The z-wave device does not become a controller for any device in the scene even if added as such. I have a scene with a Z-wave switch (controller), secondary keypad button (controller) and an Insteon micro module (responder). When the z-wave switch is turned on, the micro module responds, but the keypad button does not. Is your experience different?
IndyMike Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 On 11/30/2023 at 7:16 AM, oberkc said: I have the same issue. Some time in the past, I recall having a discussion with UD about this and came away with the impression that this was due to the fact that secondary buttons on a keypad switch cannot be directly controlled from the ISY. Of course, there is no direct link between the z-wave switch and keypad button. So...even though this keypad button is in a "scene", it appears that the ISY is trying to mimic an Insteon link between the z-wave and Insteon devices by sending direct commands to Insteon devices "linked" from z-wave devices. In my experience so far, this problem is limited to keypad secondary buttons. That is my theory and I am sticking to it. I agree that the ISY cannot directly address a KPL secondary button. In order to control a secondary button, it needs to be included in a scene. I am curious why the ISY isn't creating a "scene" for Insteon devices and an "association" for Zwave devices. Either way, it should be an easy thing to determine from the event viewer when the scene is activated by the Z-wave controller. Scene Activation - The 00.00.XX device address is indicative of a Scene. The "CF" flags also specifies a scene command but I am to lazy to decode this AM. Fri 12/01/2023 09:15:15 AM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 00 00 13 CF 11 00 Fri 12/01/2023 09:15:15 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 00.00.13 CF 11 00 06 LTONRR (00) Device Direct Addressing: The 1A.5D.C7 address is an individual device in my system (member of the scene above). The "0F" Flag also specify a "direct command". Other indicators of a direct command are the 3rd line (02 50) which is a response from the target device. Scene commands (above) do not request a response. Fri 12/01/2023 09:16:24 AM : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A 5D C7 0F 11 F7 Fri 12/01/2023 09:16:24 AM : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 1A.5D.C7 0F 11 F7 06 LTONRR (F7) Fri 12/01/2023 09:16:25 AM : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 1A.5D.C7 53.BC.3A 27 11 F7 LTONRR (F7) Fri 12/01/2023 09:16:25 AM : [Std-Direct Ack] 1A.5D.C7-->ISY/PLM Group=0, Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 I do not know/understand how the ISY is activating Zwave "associated" devices. I do not currently have a Zwave/ISY installation to test. But I am very curious for future installations. One last comment - I do remember a @lilyoyo post from years ago indicating that Zwave controllers should be added to a scene 1st. I had always abided by that when I had my mixed system. Have no idea if it still applies. IM
garybixler Posted December 1, 2023 Author Posted December 1, 2023 @oberkcJust tried your config but still I am not getting the zwave device to control an insteon on/off module. If i look at the insteon device it does show that it is a responder to the zwave device but does not respond to the swave device. If I look at the zwave device I do not see that the membership includes being a controller. It was added as a controller and shows that by being printed in red. Does your zwave device show it being a controller in the membership? This is what shows on my zwave device. Just tried adding the zwave first but no difference. All I see is that the zwave does not get added as a controller just a responder to the scene. Event viewer response. Zwave event ignored doesn't look good I am using the eisy with IoX 5.7.1. But this setup of a zwave device being a controller has never worked in the past.
oberkc Posted December 1, 2023 Posted December 1, 2023 5 hours ago, garybixler said: Just tried your config but still I am not getting the zwave device to control an insteon on/off module. Well. Interesting...my memory must be failing more than I remembered. I would have made a very large bet on my scene being as I had described originally. I think I will continue to insist that I have a good memory and, instead, that something has changed in one of the ISY updates over the years. But as of now, as I look at my scenes, they are exactly as you describe, with Z-wave with in red, added as controller, but showing as responder in the membership list. This zwave switch location has also been the one with which I have experimented. I think this is the third z-wave switch I have tried here, all in an attempt to better understand z-wave devices and trying to get this scene to work. Perhaps a prior version of this switch worked as I remember but the current version does not. Because of my experience, I have not expanded my use of Z-wave devices as controllers beyond this switch. Perhaps I am loosing my mind.
Recommended Posts