SHM Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 I have been using very stable insteon/PG3 system for some time. Recently (after some nearby construction power outages) I have lost communication with 3 of my insteon devices (1 2-wire switch and 2 lamplincs). I have gone thru the usual device delete/factory reset with no luck. When I try to add the switch back, I get a "cannot determine insteon engine" alert after 10 seconds or so. Under Tools, event viewer says switch failed to add, reason 3. For the lamplincs, under device communication events, I get [inst-ack] 02 62 3E.5D.8F LTS req and LTONRR (FF). Interestingly, when I add the lamplincs to IOX in the location where the Polisy is, they work OK. Any thoughts? I am running 5.8.4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 "Cannot determine insteon engine" indicates that the PLM is unable to communicate with the device. Being that you've tried factory reset / restore devices without success, yet they appear to work when you move them closer to the Polisy, I would focus on either noise on the power line and/or your powerline legs not properly bridged. The 2 wire switch is a powerline only device therefore I would focus on powerline issues. Take a look at these wiki articles: INSTEON: Troubleshooting Communications Errors - Universal Devices, Inc. Wiki (universal-devices.com) INSTEON Signal / Noise Troubleshooting - Universal Devices, Inc. Wiki (universal-devices.com) Powerline noise.pdf 4 Tap test.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHM Posted September 18 Author Share Posted September 18 Success! after systematically switching off each switch at the electrical panel, I found the interference was coming from the circuit going to kitchen microwave. Will put a Filterlinc there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 The filterlincs are rated at either 5 or 10 amps depending on the model. The micowave probably draws more than 10 amps. Be sure to check before using a filterlinc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 I would also be careful with a microwave and a FilterLinc. It has a fuse in it. So if I works for a while and then goes dead. The fuse has failed. They are soldered in but can be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHM Posted September 19 Author Share Posted September 19 Alternatives to Filterlinc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 The current model filterlinc is rated at 10 amps (1200 watts). I'm not aware of any other available options. How many amps does your microwave draw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHM Posted September 19 Author Share Posted September 19 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHM Posted September 19 Author Share Posted September 19 Maybe an electrician has such a thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbates Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 (edited) Search google with "XPF X10", and also try "XPNR X10" The XPF and XPNR are wire in filters for x10 but can work in some cases with Insteon. I used the XPNR for line noise from noisy electronic low voltage lighting transformers that affected insteon. The XPF is rated for 20amps but is kinda big. Take a look at these. I can't guarantee results in your case, but there are limited things to try. Edited September 19 by paulbates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMike Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 @SHM, I'm a little surprised that your microwave is causing a problem when it is off. Is this a built-in model or countertop? I ask because a countertop model would be on a GFCI and could be shared with other outlets while a built in would not. If your lamplincs were on the same circuit, I could absolutely believe that the microwave would absorb the insteon signal and prevent them from communicating. If your devices are on a different circuit from the microwave, I would suggest that you saw a "false positive" in your testing. It's unlikely that the microwave could absorb signals on a different circuit. Try unplugging the microwave to see I the devices still communicate. If the microwave is indeed causing interference on a different circuit when it's off, it may be time for a new microwave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHM Posted September 20 Author Share Posted September 20 Well, the microwave is built-in and only 3 years old. It is on a dedicated breaker with no other devices on that circuit. When I unplug the microwave (or throw the breaker), the lamplinc communication returns. I think I will try the XPF at the panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 @SHM As an alternative you could try adding some plug-in dual band devices which could help improve the insteon mesh network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted September 20 Share Posted September 20 The Microwave probably has some capacitors across the absorbing internal noise. They also absorb X10 and Insteon power line signals. It is possible over the three years. Something has changed. Here is the XPF instructions. from the X10 sales site. Note it is fairly large as it is 120VAC 20 Amps. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0324/7511/9675/files/xpf-is_03804f43-a696-42cf-992d-7797f3dc34ba.pdf?v=1673368020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMike Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 20 hours ago, SHM said: Well, the microwave is built-in and only 3 years old. It is on a dedicated breaker with no other devices on that circuit. When I unplug the microwave (or throw the breaker), the lamplinc communication returns. I think I will try the XPF at the panel. That sounds like a definitive result. Built in microwave replacement definitely NOT recommended. I'm looking for a "what changed" item. Unlikely that your microwave suddenly started absorbing more signal. You mentioned constriction and power outages. Is it possible that one or more of your phase coupling devices got damaged/upset? You may want to try the 4-tap phase test on your PLM to see if things are still coupled. Easier than installing an XPF filter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHM Posted September 21 Author Share Posted September 21 Is there a link to the 4-tap test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techman Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 11 minutes ago, SHM said: Is there a link to the 4-tap test? See attached file 4 Tap test.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMike Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 20 minutes ago, SHM said: Is there a link to the 4-tap test? It's listed as a "beacon test" in the full device manual (not the quick start guide). Not all that easy to find these days. Here's one for a 2477D - https://cache.insteon.com/documentation/2477D-en.pdf If you perform this on your PLM, it will signal all the devices in your home that are within range. Devices will flash: Green - opposite phase Red - same phase Nothing - out of range or doesn't support function Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian H Posted September 21 Share Posted September 21 Some manuals also had a flow chart of set button actions and led flashing patterns. To find the beacon test but I found on some. The good old four tap test also worked OK. Only LED flashing that was different. Was the older access points with the single color white LED. In that case it was the LED flashing patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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