Heat/Cool State is incorrect

[Mitch]

Hi all.  This is my first post after using ISY994 since 2014 or so.  I just upgraded to EISY (new) using 2413U (new).  I had no problems implementing the new setup.  I do find the new 2413U seems to be way more stable than the old 2413S that I had purchased 10 years ago.  No comparison.

Firmware: IoX v.5.8.4

UI: IoX v.5.8.4

However, I now have an issue I am unable to solve it seems.  The Heat/Cool state is showing that when Mode = Heat, the Heat/Cool state shows Cooling.  It shows the same in the UD Mobile app and the Admin Console.  The thermostats are 2441TH.  I have 2 furnaces (I cannot stress enough that this only happened after EISY upgrade).  BOTH thermostats for the furnaces are now responding in the same way.  The thermostat shows Heating (which is correct and fine) and not Cooling when you increase temperature to kick on the furnace.  The furnace works as it should.  I know both of these furnaces inside out and nothing has changed regarding wiring to the thermostats.

When HEATING, If I select the Cool Ctl, it shows Status On.  The Heat Ctl also shows Status On.  That's a real first (when Cool Ctl should be OFF).

I can assure you that I feel I have tried everything.  Restore PLM.  Restore Device.  Nothing helps.

If anybody knows where I have obviously done something wrong, then please do share.

The only thing different now is that I created a Scene with a 2441ZTH wireless version (which is actually powered with 5V) to each of the 2441TH's (two furnaces therefore two 2441TH's each with wireless ZTH - just to be clear). Switching back and forth with Master works on the ZTH with the TH.  I also have the correct time on the 2441ZTH.

 

Cheers

 

[paulbates]

1 hour ago, Mitch said:

Hi all.  This is my first post after using ISY994 since 2014 or so.  I just upgraded to EISY (new) using 2413U (new).  I had no problems implementing the new setup.  I do find the new 2413U seems to be way more stable than the old 2413S that I had purchased 10 years ago.  No comparison.

Firmware: IoX v.5.8.4

UI: IoX v.5.8.4

However, I now have an issue I am unable to solve it seems.  The Heat/Cool state is showing that when Mode = Heat, the Heat/Cool state shows Cooling.  It shows the same in the UD Mobile app and the Admin Console.  The thermostats are 2441TH.  I have 2 furnaces (I cannot stress enough that this only happened after EISY upgrade).  BOTH thermostats for the furnaces are now responding in the same way.  The thermostat shows Heating (which is correct and fine) and not Cooling when you increase temperature to kick on the furnace.  The furnace works as it should.  I know both of these furnaces inside out and nothing has changed regarding wiring to the thermostats.

When HEATING, If I select the Cool Ctl, it shows Status On.  The Heat Ctl also shows Status On.  That's a real first (when Cool Ctl should be OFF).

I can assure you that I feel I have tried everything.  Restore PLM.  Restore Device.  Nothing helps.

If anybody knows where I have obviously done something wrong, then please do share.

The only thing different now is that I created a Scene with a 2441ZTH wireless version (which is actually powered with 5V) to each of the 2441TH's (two furnaces therefore two 2441TH's each with wireless ZTH - just to be clear). Switching back and forth with Master works on the ZTH with the TH.  I also have the correct time on the 2441ZTH.

 

Cheers

 

I would put one in linking mode, right click on it in iox (admin console) and pick restore device. Test it again. If it works, do it for the other one

[Mitch]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.  I put one 2441TH in linking mode and did the restore device.  The 2441TH remained with a large 1 and it said Cooling after the restore. I had to press the Set button to exit after restore was done. In other words, nothing changed.

I increased the temperature and it still says Heat/State = Cooling,  Mode = Heat.  Not sure... hmmmm...

I would also like to say that when I turn down the heat on the thermostat to match the temperature of the room, the Heat/State = Idle, Mode = Heat.  So Idle is good... but when I put the heat back up it repeats the problem.

Edited October 14 by Mitch

[paulbates]

The behavior is definitely odd. I had a short experience with 2441TH in 2012 for a few weeks. More than once I had to pull the power lead and restart it because of flaky behavior. I know you said you've had no problems previously but I would try the following things:

• Pull the power lead, wait 10 seconds and repower it, see what happens
• If that doesn't work: factory reset it, power off, wait 10 seconds and repower, followed by put it in linking mode and restore device

[dbwarner5]

@Mitch You stated that you know this system well and that nothing has changed, but then you mention that each thermostat is now connected to a wireless device. 

Which device is actually connected to the ISY? Or is it  the wireless device?  I assume the wireless device actually "controls" the actual thermostat?  Just trying to understand it better. 

Have you tried factory resetting the 2441TH? 

 

0. Factory Reset

   1. 1)  Press and hold Insteon Thermostat’s Set button until it beeps.

      Insteon Thermostat will beep.

      Insteon Thermostat Set LED will blink green.

   2. 2)  Press and hold Insteon Thermostat’s Set button again until it beeps.

      Insteon Thermostat will beep.

      Insteon Thermostat Set LED will blink red.

   3. 3)  Double-tap Set button.

   4. 4)  Press and hold Set button again for about 10 seconds.

      Insteon Thermostat will emit a long beep and its display will blink all segments.

   5. 5)  When blinking/buzzing stops, release Set button and wait 10 seconds.

      Insteon Thermostat will perform a series of self tests, then return to normal operations. Insteon Thermostat display will return to normal.

I also dont quite understand why you have the ZTH hooked up to the TH? Doest the ZTH run a thermostat on its own? I see from the Owners manual --> http://cache.insteon.com/documentation/2441ZTH-en.pdf

Adding Insteon Wireless Thermostat to an Insteon Thermostat

Link Insteon Wireless Thermostat to Insteon Thermostat to provide a portable thermostat wherever you want temperature control. You can add up to two Insteon Wireless Thermostats to an Insteon Thermostat.

Where I am going with this, is are you sure that you havent created some strange loop or feedback that is confusing the ISY?

 

 

You may want to start over with these devices by deleting an re-adding them. 

[Mitch]

Hi everybody.  Thanks for your reply.  Please let me fiddle some more and I will post my findings.  To clarify: Two furnaces wired directly with two 2441TH (one for each furnace) the way it always was for 10 years before upgrade to EISY.  I recently purchased two (2) ZTH versions and one is used for one furnace and one is used for the other furnace.   I have the ZTH's hooked up to monitor a different room.  If I hold the Master button on the ZTH, it will be set master.  If I hold the TH as Master, then that one becomes Master.  Therefore the ZTH's are behaving like they should according to me otherwise they wouldn't be synced.

Even if I disable the ZTH's, I still have the issue.  Short of deleting things and starting over... that's most likely my next route to take.

Cheers

 

[Mitch]

@dbwarner5  I will certainly try what you said.  I followed the manual to set up the ZTH's.  As mentioned, Master wouldn't work back and forth if they weren't talking with each other which they seem to do.  I am able to control the TH with the ZTH for that particular furnace.  I cannot stress this enough how I appreciate the help.  

[Mitch]

I did Factory reset on 2441TH.  The TH did everything that it was supposed to do - and it reset.  I then disabled the other ZTH thermostat so it wouldn't communicate with  that TH.  Here's where things stand:

Mode = Heat.  The furnace is heating and working like before.  However, the difference now is the Heat/State = Idle after a Query on the TH. The problem is that it not in Idle.  The furnace is heating.  At least it isn't saying that it's cooling in the Heat/State box :-).  Hmmmm

The Admin Console also for the TH says:

Cool Ctl = Off

Heat Ctl = Off

As mentioned... it's heating... 

I might try deleting things and starting over.  I just wanted to post my findings.

Edited October 14 by Mitch

[dbwarner5]

@Mitch this may be too simple but are you looking at the right device?  Meaning which device will actually report back the correct status of the furnace: the TH or the ZTH?

[Mitch]

@dbwarner5

Hi,

Yes things are communicating as they should - However, Heat - Ctl Status still shows nothing.  It used to say Cooling On before I reset things.  Ultimately there is frost on the ground outside and we have heat :-).

When settings are changed on the TH (which is Master) settings after a short moment get changed on the ZTH which it is supposed to do.

Cheers

 

 

Edited October 17 by Mitch

[dbwarner5]

@Mitch yea..

I actually have no knowledge of those particular devices, but am trying to think thru some trouble shooting ideas. 

If I understand it correctly so far....

-The two thermostats are talking correctly to each other. 

-The furnace is behaving as the thermostats say it should (?)

-The isy shows the INCORRECT status of the thermostats and if the above is true, the furnace incorrectly as well.??

If those above are true, it has to be the ISY to the "thermostat system" that is wrong. So what different combinations of manipulation of the four devices in the isy can be tried next? ie:

-delete all 4 devices and read only the 2 ZTHs? 

-delete all four and only add the  2 THs? 

-if you only have two devices in the ISY, delete them and add the opposite --> ZTH delete, add TH or TH delete add ZTH

-Other??

Maybe these steps dont make sense if I have misunderstood the set up, so let me know.!  Cheers and good luck!

[CoolToys]

I didn't see this thread earlier, but I may be having similar issues so I started a new thread which may or may not be related.  Here is what I have done so far.   When ISY is in control, no LED on set button, when  removed from ISY, red program button on, but still no response from buttons on device.

Here is what I have done to troubleshoot:
1. Following @dbwarner5 advice, I attempted to reset but that didn't work since mine are both locked up.  The ISY can change modes and temps but nothing else. None of the hard buttons work at all.
2. Remove the downstairs thermostat from eISY (AC) and see if the SET button would allow a reset, it still did not.  I reset power to the HVAC, still same thing.
3. Tried  @paulbates suggestion to pull power wire directly.  I did this by pulling the face plate release and separating the circuit board from the terminal block.  Image below in case someone isn't sure what I mean. 

Status after steps 1-3. What you see in photo below is all I get.   My guess is brown out failure from multiple power surges over the last three weeks.  If the moderators believe these threads are linked, please delete and/or migrate the other thread.

Step 4. Attempted to reconnect to eISY with Autodiscover.  Since Set button didn't work, not discoverable.
Step 5. Attempted to reconnect to eISY with Insteon Address.  It re-added but as three different devices this time, 1 main line, 1 cool line, and 1 heat line.  This was interesting.  Is this an eISY thing?  Why is it different?  The Cool Control and Heat Control lines (devices?) have no data but the main looks like the Upstairs unit I haven't messed with yet.   

Status now.  I can send the time and date to the 2441TH (incorrect in previous thread).  None of the buttons on the face work.  Beep works.  Changing temp in drop down does not, but using set point up or down does. When a change or command comes from the eISY (AC) the set let turns red.  Still in C, no way to get F, not trying to be that European right now so still frustrated.

 

[Mitch]

Hi.  Sorry that you're having issues.  Here's a crazy question. Have you reinstalled the original thermostat (or a basic non Insteon thermostat) to the same terminals to establish/deduction if the 2441TH thermostat is out to lunch?  If you don't have another thermostat, you can check out the YouTube video below.  I'm not sure exactly where things stand on your end so here goes.  Like the guy in the video says, you can even do it at the thermostat...  This should tell you if your 2441TH has some sort of fault.  I own 4 of that exact model and I have never had crazy issues like what you're up against.  I don't recall reading if your furnace actually works which is why I'm posting this. Sorry if this might have nothing to do with the price of eggs.  (Your connections to the 2441TH look fine from what I see.  As for the image with the Cool 30 and Heat 20 both showing at the same time on the display - that's some funky stuff).  I also would make sure that I don't have a Program sending conflicting info to the thermostat.  Also, I googled this for you (I have never had to do this mind you): 

To change the temperature on an Insteon thermostat to Fahrenheit, you can calibrate the thermostat as follows:

Press and hold the Program button until the display goes blank 

• Tap Time/Sensor to enter Temperature Calibration Mode 

• Tap Mode to cycle between temperature and humidity calibration 

• Use the Up or Down arrows to adjust the temperature until it matches the calibrated source 

 

Last but not least, in EISY you will get 3 things...

Thermostat Main

Thermostat Cool Ctl

Thermostat Heat Ctl