Effectiveness of the x10 XPF 20A?

[MarkH]

How effective is the x10 XPF 20A wired-in noise filter or the XPNR noise filter with a 3 phase, 230V fan motor?  When the fan is on I lose X10 control.  I understand I would need a filter for each phase.

 

Edited December 13 by MarkH
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[IndyMike]

On 12/12/2024 at 11:16 PM, MarkH said:

How effective is the x10 XPF 20A wired-in noise filter or the XPNR noise filter with a 3 phase, 230V fan motor?  When the fan is on I lose X10 control.  I understand I would need a filter for each phase.

 

The XPF is a rather capable in-line filter.  It's rather large, normally requires a 3-gang box to install. 

The XPNR is a shunt filter.  As such, it's rather small and does not have a specific current specification.  It will absorb both Insteon and X10 signals.  It can be effective if placed near the offending device with a good line length back to the electrical panel (higher impedance).

You mentioned that your fan was 3-phase.  That's rather unusual for a home install.  Is your home also 3-phase, or is this a 240V powered fan with a 3-phase inverter?  I ask because Insteon PLM's are not configured to provide X10 in a 3 phase installation (120 degree phase separation).

 

[Brian H]

I actually saw a condo. Fed from three phase. With each unit using two of the three phase leads and common. To help balance the power line feed. Each unit had 120VAC neutral to each line and 208 line to line. I believe the high voltage appliances where made for 208 or wired for 208. 120 degree phase separation.

Edited December 15 by Brian H

[larryllix]

2 hours ago, Brian H said:

I actually saw a condo. Fed from three phase. With each unit using two of the three phase leads and common. To help balance the power line feed. Each unit had 120VAC neutral to each line and 208 line to line. I believe the high voltage appliances where made for 208 or wired for 208. 120 degree phase separation.

This is very common practice in some areas with large multi-unit buildings. It saves on some conductor size.

However we used to get complaints from electricians about bulbs popping due to the 125vac on them and heats running at 216vac. Utilities tend to attempt a compromise by running voltage at 125/216vac instead of 120/208vac. The voltage levels are within specs and the 216v is not too bad for 220vac appliances. Cheaper incandescent bulbs never liked it though and after being called, many electrician troubleshooters didn't understand why the 120v was so high.

However, since Insteon and X10 signals use the zero crossing of the phase voltage, I am not sure how well passing one phase's signals over to another phase, that is 120 degrees out of phase, could possibly work well.

Edited December 15 by larryllix

[IndyMike]

25 minutes ago, larryllix said:

This is very common practice in some areas with large multi-unit buildings. It saves on some conductor size.

However we used to get complaints from electricians about bulbs popping due to the 125vac on them and heats running at 216vac. Utilities tend to attempt a compromise by running voltage at 125/216vac instead of 120/208vac. The voltage levels are within specs and the 216v is not too bad for 220vac appliances. Cheaper incandescent bulbs never liked it though and after being called, many electrician troubleshooters didn't understand why the 120v was so high.

However, since Insteon and X10 signals use the zero crossing of the phase voltage, I am not sure how well passing one phase's signals over to another phase, that is 120 degrees out of phase, could possibly work well.

Understand completely.  That's why I asked the question.  Insteon can work on a 3 phase system.  Unfortunately, PLM's will not be able to communicate X10 on 3 phase.   The older X10 CM15a interfaces would communicate @120 degrees for 3 phase applications.

On the flip side, I have 3 phase motor controllers that operate off split single phase 240V power.  Again, that's why I asked for clarification on the house/fan power.