walkman9999 Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Hello - Very reliable install went south a few weeks ago. Determined problem was a bad PLM. Replaced PLM and things went back to normal for about a week. Now I have a problem where when a scene is triggered, multiple devices that are not part of the scene are switched ON. This happens for two scenes in particular. Should note that these scenes have been part of my install for years. I thought maybe restore of the new PLM would help, but that ran into a "failed to write" error (see log: _restore-ISY-Events-Log.v5.8.4__Wed 2025.02.12 16.46.25.txt). I am able to download the links table, but not sure what it is telling me (file: PLM Links Table.v5.8.4__Wed 2025.02.12 16.57.37.xml). I also captured a log of the scene running and triggering the switchlinks that are not part of it (log: scene-trigger-ISY-Events-Log.v5.8.4__Wed 2025.02.12 16.46.49.txt). The programs are included as well, but I don't believe this is a programming problem - although I'm open-minded. One program has the IF and second one has the THEN. North Gate.v5.8.4__Wed 2025.02.12 16.59.01.iox -> _North Gate.v5.8.4__Wed 2025.02.12 16.59.16.iox Any help is appreciated. @IndyMike, you have been great at helping me understand the logs in the past. Maybe some insight? Thanks in any case. _restore-ISY-Events-Log.v5.8.4__Wed 2025.02.12 16.46.25.txt scene-trigger-ISY-Events-Log.v5.8.4__Wed 2025.02.12 16.46.49.txt PLM Links Table.v5.8.4__Wed 2025.02.12 16.57.37.xml North Gate.v5.8.4__Wed 2025.02.12 16.59.01.iox _North Gate.v5.8.4__Wed 2025.02.12 16.59.16.iox
Techman Posted February 13 Posted February 13 @walkman9999 When you replaced your PLM did you follow the attached procedure? Replace PLM Procedure (EISY or POLISY).pdf
walkman9999 Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 I did. It went well for the most part, one powerline device didn't come back but I replaced it. Everything worked fine for about a week after the replacement.
oberkc Posted February 13 Posted February 13 I cannot be much help with log files. I would be tempted to restore individual devices. Specifically, any of the devices that are misbehaving or part of a scene that is misbehaving. It may (or may not) help, but it is at least a simple step that could.
IndyMike Posted February 13 Posted February 13 @walkman9999, unfortunately I am traveling through Friday. Can't help with the link tables at the moment. I did look at the restore log. You encountered an error writing to a device 1b.b0.cc. This looks like an older device that may be powerline only. As @oberkc indicated, this device would be a prime candidate for a restore. I'll try to have a look at the rest when I return.
walkman9999 Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 Always appreciate this community, thank you. @IndyMike you are correct, the older device is the powerline only switch that I have a replacement for but have yet to replace, glad it is not the PLM. @oberkc, I will ID the specific devices that are misbehaving and restore them and report back. Thanks again for insight
walkman9999 Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 At this point, when I attempt to restore *any* device on my network, I eventually get a "Failed writing to Devices" error. I am not proficient at decoding the messages I see on the attached log, but it seems that things work until we get to the SET-MSB(OF) packets. I get same behavior when reading the device links table. I'm saying "things work" because the exchange of TX and RX messages seems quick, and generally at least one and usually two hops left. Attached is the restore of a switchlink that seemed to cruise along for two minutes until the "Failed to write" message appeared. I'm concerned that there may be a new intermittent source of interference on the network, but I'd like to get a more experienced opinion if anyone has one. TY -restore_switchlink-ISY-Events-Log.v5.8.4__Thu 2025.02.13 07.49.44.txt
Techman Posted February 13 Posted February 13 @walkman9999 It appears that you have a lot of the older single band, powerline only, devices. If that's the case you could have noise on your powerline that's interferring with the Insteon signals 1
oberkc Posted February 13 Posted February 13 6 hours ago, walkman9999 said: I'm concerned that there may be a new intermittent source of interference on the network, but I'd like to get a more experienced opinion if anyone has one. I second that motion. The only message I need to see is the "failed writing...." There is a communication problem of some type. What devices do you have that are plugged into the same outlet and circuit as the PLM? Do you have any UPS or electronic gadgets/power supplies? Do you use any filterlincs? If you get a long extension cord and plug the plm into another outlet on a different circuit, does this solve the problem?
walkman9999 Posted February 14 Author Posted February 14 Keeping the thread updated. I have existing Insteon filters on both of the UPSs (+ the refrigerator), but it is clear that there is still a wireline problem. As @Techman and @IndyMike pointed out, the devices that are problematic to write to are older, single band devices. I can eventually get them restored, but it takes multiple tries to do so. Because I have so much invested in the system, I'm going to replace those devices. I will also follow the steps I've found listed in this forum to try to isolate the offending device(s). Unfortunately, I have a number of 12v/24v LED drivers that I suspect, but have no remediation for. Hopefully, the dual-band addition will be enough to restore reliable comms. Will report back. Thanks for help so far.
Techman Posted February 14 Posted February 14 @walkman9999 Take a look at these troubleshooting articles INSTEON: Troubleshooting Communications Errors - Universal Devices, Inc. Wiki INSTEON Signal / Noise Troubleshooting - Universal Devices, Inc. Wiki Needless to say replacing your older single band devices with dual band willl greatly improve the reliability of your network.
IndyMike Posted February 15 Posted February 15 @walkman9999, Had the chance to look at the files you up loaded. Your _Northgate program has a lot going on. Many Device Direct Fast ON commands in succession, followed by a scene command, and then more Direct commands. The rapid succession of these commands are bombarding the PLM and may be confusing it. In my experience, the PLM is rather good at handling stacked commands (back to back). But then I use the older ISY994. The EISY is far faster, and may be capable of overwhelming the PLM. I've posted a section of your event viewer below the program listing. Your fist Insteon command is a Fast ON to device 29.18.D7 Highlighted yellow). The normal sequence would be: Wed 02/12/2025 16:46:26 : [INST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 29 18 D7 0F 12 00 (Fast on Command to PLM) Wed 02/12/2025 16:46:26 : [INST-ACK ] 02 62 29.18.D7 0F 12 00 06 LTON-F (00) (Acknowledge from the PLM) Wed 02/12/2025 16:46:26 : [INST-SRX ] 02 50 29.18.D7 71.1B.41 2B 12 00 LTON-F (00) (Acknowledge from the device) I've highlighted all 3 in the event viewer listing below. These would normally be in sequence. As you can see, you have many other commands in between, as well as the curious "Link for responder XX.XX.XX not found". I believe this is the PLM informing the ISY that it doesn't contain the link for these devices. The thing is, I looked at your PLM listing and it most certainly does contain the links for these devices. As I said, confused. In general, the communication response activity I see in the event viewer log looks rather good. Two or three hops remaining fall all devices (Including older I1 devices). You may have some communication issues, but they were not apparent in the log. That's good. You may have "isolated" issues on some circuits, rather than wide spread issues due to a problem PLM location. Suggestions: Insert some short waits between some of your Insteon commands. If you suspect a scene issue, insert a longer wait before the scene command. Your programs were attached in an XLM format. Very few forum members can interpret it (and I have trouble). If you would please right click on the program and select "copy to clipboard", you'll be able to paste a "text version of your program. Many far more experienced people than I will be able to assist with suggestions. It looks like the Eisy is still using the deprecated Peek/Poke method of restoring your older devices. Did you try switching the Eisy to the "Device Reported" mode under "Advanced Options"? XLM Program Listing <?xml version="1.0" ?> <triggers> <d2d> <trigger> <id>50</id> <name>_North Gate</name> <parent>53</parent> <if> <and /> <status id="ST" node="55 18 EA 1" op="IS"> <val uom="51" prec="0">100</val> </status> <and /> <status id="ST" node="1A B3 C1 1" op="IS"> <val uom="51" prec="0">0</val> </status> <and /> <schedule> <from> <sunset>-1800</sunset> </from> <to> <sunrise>1800</sunrise> <day>1</day> </to> </schedule> </if> <then> <var id="3" type="1"> <op>EQ</op> <val prec="0">1</val> </var> <cmd id="DFON" node="29 18 D7 1"></cmd> <cmd id="DFON" node="49 B2 50 1"></cmd> <cmd id="DFON" node="29 18 D7 1"></cmd> <cmd id="DFON" node="1A 61 8D 1"></cmd> <cmd id="DFON" node="1A B3 C1 1"></cmd> <cmd id="DFON" node="29 18 D7 1"></cmd> <cmd id="DFON" node="29 1 8A 1"></cmd> <cmd id="DFON" node="2A B 38 1"></cmd> <cmd id="DFON" node="1A B7 F 1"></cmd> <notify content="1">1</notify> <cmd id="DON" node="11711"> <p id=""> <val uom="51" prec="0">100</val> </p> </cmd> <wait> <seconds>30</seconds> </wait> Event Viewer Log (Partial) PLM Table Sorted for Group 19 Scene Members
walkman9999 Posted February 15 Author Posted February 15 @IndyMike, all good info. Making suggested changes to simplify programs. I was wondering about the "Link for responder XX.XX.XX not found" as well. I tracked down the MAC/Insteon ID and restored both the device and the PLM, but still they persist. I believe all of the devices listed are KPLs if that sheds any light. Looking at any logs of what happens "on the wire" always yields a few mysteries (I'm a network guy). Found that all mysteries do not need to be solved so taking that approach. Appreciate the insight as always, will post back if anything interesting happens. Otherwise, I'll close the thread in a week or so.
walkman9999 Posted Monday at 03:25 PM Author Posted Monday at 03:25 PM As suggested by replies, combination of bad programming, older devices, and a questionable PLM contributed to this problem. I can't say specifically which of the changes solved the problem, but it no longer exists. A smoking gun would have been nice, but marking solved as the troubleshooting was helpful. Thanks all.
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