Ghost links

[SirParadox]

Ever since I first deployed insteon my first two ever switches have had odd ghosts in the machine.  One is a simple on/off for the back porch.  Next to it is a multi button dimmer.  The main is the family room light.  A is one corner lamp Linq, b is another, C is to a micro on/off in the basement for Cide yard, and D is another micro on/off for a deck light.

 

for some reason the independant on/off also tiggers C on the other.  Sometimes D.  I have replaced both a few times but the problem returns.  This past week I did a debug, show isy links.  In there is a set of repeating hex, where the next 3 hex on one line is the same ID as the side yard, and the other the deck, and the third an unknown item.  Those links do not belong.  The on/off switch is part of no scenes or programs.  They also appear nowhere in the controller/responder list in the isy app.

 

is there any way to directly edit these links?  I can delete and re-add the switch, but won’t the link come back from the other direction?  I also checked my kitchen switch which ‘turns off all buttons when the on/off is toggled’ which is a very ancient, deleted program, that I coded that on double off click turn off all buttons but that program is long gone.  I’d really hate to delete and reconfigure that from scratch.  But I can if I have to.

 

im just wondering how can I have these renegade links, but not visible in the admin console, and nowhere to say download, edit, load, etc the config?

 

thx on advance.

[paulbates]

Do the links in iox / admin console look right? Post a pic if you're not sure.

I'd factory reset the on/off switch, and right click on it in iox and pick "Restore Device". If that works repeat with the keypad

[apostolakisl]

I feel your pain.  I have seen similar ghost links.  The only way to get rid of them as far as I can tell is to completely delete all involved devices from ISY, factory reset them, and bring them back into the fold from scratch. 

I found that shooting screen shots of all the scenes and whatnot from the admin console of ISY makes recreating the scenes again much easier.  Same holds for any programs.

This is an issue I had many years ago and seemed to have been a result of devices that died and needed to be replaced as well as moving devices around.  I have not had issues like this in over a decade.

[SirParadox]

So that worries me.  'Delete all involved devices'.

I finally got my admin tool to work after a PC reinstall and java cert issues.  thank you start.jnlp.

So I have a Family Room Overhead, dimmer.  It's in ZERO scenes.  ZERO programs.  yet.  it likes to turn on C of the keypad next to it.  Recently I noticed when my dad manually turned on the Driveway Flood, the overhead in the fam came on.

so I looked at its config in ISY.  nothing.  not a controller of anything, not a responder of anything.

I downloaded its links, and used the python isylib to export all my devices and HW addrs.

 

===

FamilyRoom 24.DF.7B
    -> 2A.92.C6 FF    Yard.Master
    -> 3D.96.1C 01  NO SUCH DEVICE
    -> 2A.92.C6 03  Yard.Master.A - Driveway
    -> 2B.2A.B9 03  Yard Back Deck
    -> 2E.98.78 03  Kitchen Lamp

===

Yard.Master is the keypad in the garage.  ON/OFF triggers the overnight lights.  A-B-C-D are just quick links to other dimmers that are hard to reach nearby (Front porch, Front walkway, Front mailbox, Back laundryroom)  ... no real function just for fun really and to make it easier.

 Yard Back Deck, is also the FamilyRoomKeypad(C or D) that gets triggered!

 Yard.Master.A is in a scene with Yard.Driveway.  And somehow it's triggering the Fam overhead.

 So there is a ton of 'crap' in here.  NO clue how it got here.  I thought that if I delete an item.  Add it manually.  Reprogram it, what happens to the inverse links?  You suggested delete all involved.  Sigh.  That's my fear.  I can do it, but I don't like it.  I don't like the fact these links are not visible in the UI, but clearly exist in the 'Diag show isy links'.  

 

Just as I was thinking of my reply another ghost got crazier, almost a polterguest.  A billion years ago I coded my first 3 keypads with a 'program' that 'If this device is off, And this device is triggered to go off, Turn off all buttons and linked items' and the inverse 'If this device is on, And this device is triggered to go on, Turn On all buttons and linked items'.  This was a neat trick to have a quick and dirty 'gimme all lights in this area' as in 'double click on/off'..  For whatever reason that program has been deleted 10 years ago.  Yet my Kitchen, might have 3 buttons on.  But when I turn the master on/off it triggers the lights (not the devices).  lol!  I was just in my kitchen and I noticed my Kitchen Keypad B button blinking on/off/on/off/on/off.  I have msg blink enabled, verified at a nearby device that msg's are being sent.  Quick came to my pc, went to isy, debug, events, all, and nada.  Sigh!

 

So... This is crazy.  I'm wondering if I should just basically 'format and re-install'.  It would SUCK ARSE.  But the fact that my Family Overhead, has ZERO scenes, ZERO programs, but is somehow linked to my garage? and even my kitchen lamp (a device/scene I havn't touched in 10 years, yet I replaced via delete-add the overhead) so how the hell?  

 

I just wish the ISY debug could decode the x10 packets telling me in english what they mean, let me select them or save-edit-load and 'are you sure? are you really sure?  Yo, you REALLY sure?' YES !

 

 

So best advice at this point.  Sorry for the TL;DR... I love insteon (x10).  100x better then any z-wave insanity but omFg this is nuts!

 

Thx :)

 

[SirParadox]

[paulbates]

The links probably hung around in the devices and the ISY doesn't know. If you re-read my post above, you should pick the device that exhibits the most problems and factory reset it. Then right click on it in the admin console and pick Restore device.

[apostolakisl]

Basically there are two things that can happen here.

1) messed up links in a device, but ISY links table correct

2) Messed up ISY links table.

 

1) Is easy to fix, factory reset the device and restore it from ISY  You can very quickly do that to bunches of devices and I would just go ahead and do it, not just to a misbehaving device but all related devices, even most of the devices in your house.  Also don't forget the plm is a device with links on it that could be incorrect.

2) is harder to fix.  Delete devices from ISY, factory reset devices, add back to ISY and re create all the scenes and re-add to any programs.

I have seen both, but number 2 has only happened to me once a very very long time ago and was probably related to when I first added ISY to my system and already had devices programmed manually and then imported them to ISY.

[IndyMike]

On 3/3/2025 at 4:19 PM, SirParadox said:

 

@SirParadox, the device 3D.96.1C appears to be a PLM.  It is listed as a controller for group 0 of your family room overhead device.  It is possible that this is an OLD PLM (check your current PLM address to verify).

In any case, the ISY believes the links to be correct.  Restoring this device from the ISY will simply re-write the same links.

If you are sure that the links are incorrect, the quickest way to rectify is to proceed as @apostolakisl indicated in his Option #2 above (delete device, factory reset, re-add to the ISY).

[SirParadox]

I agree that if I remove, reset, restore, I’ll just get the bogus links back from isy.  So my question is if I remove, reset, restore ‘Device A’ that has a bogus link to ‘Device B’, won’t B just push the link back?  Do you all think I need to do resets on both ends? Sucks, but dooable.

[IndyMike]

@SirParadox , your device B isn't capable of "pushing back" a link to device A.  The only way for device B to write links in device A would be if you Manually linked the device.  If that were to happen, the ISY would have no record of the links (it would show up as a mis-match) and you could easilly restore the device.

If you believe the link tables in both devices are incorrect, you will need to delete, factory reset, and re-add both devices.