Need help for an RF issue with X-10

[Techowl]

I know this forum is usually about the isy994 unit only, but I have a very weird issue that just occurred with my setup. I have been running the current configuration problem free for about 6 years now.

I am running an isy994 in conjunction with the usual Insteon AC interface plus the recommended 32 bit transceiver from WGL (V572RF32) connected to a XTB 523 X10 power line interface.

My problem happened yesterday.

After a power outage of just over an hour, I noticed the RF unit did not respond to a small remote I was using. I figured it was the batteries, and went to work planning to swap out the batteries when I came home.

The batteries were not the issue. I tried several different remotes with the same issue occurring. I figured the RF unit had developed a problem after 6 years of great service, so I removed it to temporary replace it with a standard TM751 Transceiver.

That's when I went down the rabbit hole so to speak. No matter what transceiver or remote I used, none had any effect. Further investigation revealed that all remotes used with any transceiver now had a very limited range of abut 6 to 8 feet from the transceiver placed anywhere in the house.

The isy994 still transmits it's commands fine, and a control console connected to AC will still interact. The problem is just with the RF signal being squashed for some reason.

I have several house codes in use making it a bit more difficult to use the old X10 transceivers.

Any useful insights would be greatly appreciated as I have run out of ideas at this point.

Thanks for your time,

- Tim -

 

[Brian H]

There are some X10 and Insteon users here and I am sure they will assist you.

You may also want to post on the X10 Support Forums. For added ideas. https://forums.x10.com/index.php

[Brian H]

Have you tried a power cycle reset on the modules doing the RF conversion?

Did you try one of the old transceivers to compare the results?

In the Event Viewer is there any constant X10 style messages?

Almost sounds like you have some RF interference that is almost over taking all the remotes.

 

[Techowl]

There are no events listed, except the ones when I was testing close to the transceivers.

All units were power cycled with 45 to 90 seconds off time. 

I tried 3xTM751, an RR501 and CM15A transceivers after disconnecting the V572RF 32 setup.

- Tim -

[IndyMike]

@Techowl, I'm in agreement with @Brian H.  It sounds like you have a device that is radiating signal @310 MHz and is effectively jamming your transceivers.  If it is a device that is failing (oscillating) it will not be transmitting the proper X10 format and will be ignored by the transceivers - you won't see any events.

You have a couple of tools at your disposal -

1) The tried and true circuit breaker approach.  Turn off circuits until the noise stops (communication improves), then isolate devices on the circuit.

2) Use your transceiver to determine where the noise source isn't.  Move the transceiver around the house to find an area where the remote range improves.  Then reverse the process to find where the range is worst (noise source nearby). 

It is of course possible that the noise source is outside your home.  The breaker test would confirm that.   

[Techowl]

Well now that post led me to the solution.

I have an RF meter that I used while I was working on a key fob RF shield a while back and it does indeed detect 310 Mhz at close range.

I checked my transmitter sources and found 1 that was transmitting constantly.

It was a modified HR12A Palm Pad. I built a one shot relay interface to simulate a button being pressed if a 12vdc signal was applied to one of 8 inputs.

The power outage was detected by the alarm panel causing it to output the 12v to the interface. Although the power to the interface was cut, it still had enough in the power supply to lock that input on. When power was restored, it just kept transmitting. I believe the 12vdc input was never interrupted because the battery backup in the alarm panel kept it running during the outage.

All I had to do was cycle the power to the interface, resetting the transmitter, and voila!, I have my fully functional RF capability back again.  

The RF meter I used was from Amazon and if anyone wants one, it can be found here;

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0B1MQVDQ7?ref_=ppx_hzod_title_dt_b_fed_asin_title_0_0

It is still being sold as of today (I got mine in 2024). It has to be very close to the transmitter to detect.

Thanks for the insight. It did not occur to me that a transmitter had locked on.

- Tim -

 

[Guy Lavoie]

Oh the (X10) memories!  One thing I had acquired at the time was the Elk ESM1 signal meter. It turned out to be handy for this kind of thing. I sold off a bunch of X10 stuff but I hung on to that meter, because the bar graph shows signal strength of anything around the 120 kHz frequency, which is close enough to Insteon powerline signals. It helps me see any residual noise, as well as Insteon transmissions.

[Brian H]

I have also used an ESM1 to show Insteon power line signals and an RF Explorer budget spectrum analyzer to look at Insteon RF signals.

Glad you found the RF problem. In the X10 forums we have seen lost remotes stuck in maybe a couch with a button on or an failing RF device start spewing X10 RF.