Family room lights rapidly flicker when dimmed

[doug9563001]

When I dim my family room lights, they flicker rapidly. To stop it, I have to return them to full brightness. I’m using a dimmable LED bulbs, EISY and the Insteon 2477D wall dimmer switch. Could the switch be going bad? It’s not unusual for some temporary “blinking” when there is other Insteon program activity. Has done this for years. But really would like to be able to dim these lights.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brian H]

Some brand and model LED lights don't work well on Insteon dimmers.

Some here have found certain bulb models work better.

Quick test only. If you still have an incandescent bulb around. Try replacing one of the bulbs and see if they work better.

Some information from Insteon that may assist you.  https://www.insteon.com/products/led-flicker-glow-eliminator      https://support.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/get-started-led-filter

Those networks are also available from other sources and the manufacturers data is easily seen on the page in the link.

Edited Wednesday at 10:18 AM by Brian H
Add second link to instalation and use.

[CoolToys]

First Question,
Do the led dim at all? You said you have to go to full brightness to get them to stop.  
Second, 
Brand of LED and how old?  Older LED's don't like digital dimming, they were made for rotary resistance dimmers.

The way you describe the problem, that isn't flickering that the eliminators can fix

Third question:
Are all of the bulbs on the switch the same brand, series and dimmable?  Just one different bulb can kill the circuit sometimes due to differences in control circuits.

I started testing LED bulbs with insteon and leviton switches in 2006 and many of the brands that don't work are somewhere in this forum.  In the past four years I have only found one brand at Home Depot to be an issue, ecosmart, and some work, some don't so it isn't consistent for the brand.  The newest eco smarts appear to be ok.  

The biggest cause of flickering as you describe it was caused by non-dimmable LED on an Insteon (or Leviton or Lutron) dimmer.  Older dimmers were good down to 5 or 6 watts.   In my office for example, I only use a 6 Watt LED on one of the lamps.  With a non dimming bulb it flickers.  Yes, I had the same problem when I upgraded to the i3 switches so I could get the engraved.  And yes the Eliminator in the above post by @Brian H worked.  I got lucky and the blue one worked first try.  

I have a patio light that is an 8 Watt LED on a single i3 switch and it had a slight glow all the time when the switch was off.  That was fixed with the Flicker-Glow Eliminator.  I installed the flicker-glow eliminator behind the patio lamp since there was no way it was fitting behind the switch in the box. 

Suggestions are first to try a different brand of dimmable LED bulb and make sure the load is at least 20 watts total, i.e. 4 x 5 watt bulbs. or 2 x 10 watt bulbs or more.  Second is to try the flicker glow eliminators.

 

[doug9563001]

I’m using these Fiet Electric Dimmable bulbs. Why not to exceed 20w? I might have an incandescent bulb in my stash. I’ll try it.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Feit-Electric-75-Watt-Equivalent-A19-Dimmable-CEC-Title-20-90-CRI-E26-Medium-LED-Light-Bulb-Bright-White-3000K-2-Pack-OM75DM-930CA-2/304116345




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Geddy]

30 minutes ago, doug9563001 said:

Why not to exceed 20w?

@CoolToys said "at least 20 watts total"

The issue is the LED aren't pulling enough power for the Insteon switches to properly dim. I too had issues with some Home Depot ecosmart brand. I found that Philips bulbs (the warm glow on dim) work really well, but they seem to be discontinued (or very difficult to find). Lately I've found the Cree also worked really well, but again no longer being made.

I haven't tried Feit bulbs yet, but they were on my list to get next time I was in need. I've heard they worked well with dimmers similar to the Insteon switches. Bummer if what you bought isn't working well though. 

I recently purchased some 60w equivalent Philips bulbs that are used in a ceiling fan kit that dim well (down to ~10%). 

WOW! Looking at the HD site it does look like the Philips warm glow are available (they were packaged differently a few years ago when I made the LED swap that I don't think I recognized the packaging as "warm glow" when I was there last). 

PS: I'm not electrician (and have no such skills - HA!) so comments above about pulling power are what I've heard referenced previously. Above is also personal experience with limited bulbs and only (older) Insteon dimmer switches. I do not have any "NEW" models of Insteon dimmers or switches. 

[paulbates]

Phillips warm glows have been recommended by Insteon on one of their announcement / marketing calls last year. 

[mmb]

10 hours ago, Brian H said:

Some information from Insteon that may assist you.  https://www.insteon.com/products/led-flicker-glow-eliminator      https://support.insteon.com/support-knowledgebase/get-started-led-filter

Those networks are also available from other sources and the manufacturers data is easily seen on the page in the link.

My brother had one light that would flash once or twice when it was being dimmed using an Insteon dimmer. The LEDs were indicated as dimmable.

This flicker eliminator fixed it.

[doug9563001]

Phillips warm glows have been recommended by Insteon on one of their announcement / marketing calls last year. 

Turns out the warm glow are discontinued, replaced by the ultra definition. Kinda hard to find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[doug9563001]

I did an experiment by replacing one of the bulbs with an incandescent bulb. The flickered went away. As soon as I switched off that lamp at the lamp, the flickered went away on the other lamp immediately came back. What is that telling me? I’m going to try other brand bulbs. Perhaps I will buy the filter suggested above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

1 minute ago, doug9563001 said:

I did an experiment by replacing one of the bulbs with an incandescent bulb. The flickered went away. As soon as I switched off that lamp at the lamp, the flickered went away on the other lamp immediately came back. What is that telling me? I’m going to try other brand bulbs. Perhaps I will buy the filter suggested above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Most LED bulbs do not offer enough leakage to maintain the dimmer circuit inside the control device. The dimmer has no waveform to lock onto for timing and when it shuts off the LED bulb circuit leakage then accumulates somewhat and the dimmer attempt to turn on again.

A small incandescent bulb mixed in or wiring one of the small capacitor devices across one lamp socket usually fixes the problem.

I bought a few packages of the Warm-Glow bulbs but they were the worst I have ever tried with an Insteon SwitchLinc dimmer. They would only turn on reliably at about 45% brightness. Home Depot refunded my money. HD has since discontinued all Philips bulbs in my area, Ontario, Canada.

[doug9563001]

Most LED bulbs do not offer enough leakage to maintain the dimmer circuit inside the control device. The dimmer has no waveform to lock onto for timing and when it shuts off the LED bulb circuit leakage then accumulates somewhat and the dimmer attempt to turn on again.
A small incandescent bulb mixed in or wiring one of the small capacitor devices across one lamp socket usually fixes the problem.

I bought a few packages of the Warm-Glow bulbs but they were the worst I have ever tried with an Insteon SwitchLinc dimmer. They would only turn on reliably at about 45% brightness. Home Depot refunded my money. HD has since discontinued all Philips bulbs in my area, Ontario, Canada.

It would be great if the device screwed in between the bulbs and the lamp. I have not problem with installing it, but a little bit of a hassle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[doug9563001]

I have a new theory. The floor lamp has an inline dimmer that I’ve never used. When I unplug this lamp, the flickered went away in the table top lamp stops flickering. I’m going to remove it and wire directly to the plug.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[larryllix]

I only have two bulbs controlled by Insteon left now, after moving.

However, I have about 20 WiFi operated RGBCW/WW bulbs throughout my apartment now. These run on LEDenet/MagicHome protocol, for which I wrote my own drivers that self-adapt to many different bulb revisions, including some White (CW+WW) only floor stand LED lamps.

WiFi bulbs present no flicker right down to 1% brightness and are great to be able to adjust the colour temperature from about 2100K to 6500K. I use ISY programs to automatically dim them down from more daylight colours down to a orangey warm white, as the evening gets later and we do notice a difference in bed times lately.