Weird question maybe - Don't even know how to refer to it

[wpmjones]

I have a program that blinks the light in our bedroom if our son opens his bedroom door. The lights then stay on.

 

I have a ToggleLinc Dimmer (Portrait Light) in the family that is on the way to my son's room.

 

Here's what I want. On the way to his bedroom, I flip on the ToggleLinc which will turn off the lights in the bedroom and keep the program from running again. If the ToggleLinc is then turned off, the program is then re-enabled in case he opens his door again.

 

Here's what I've tried so far. I tried:

 

If Status of Portrait Light is On

Then turn off lights and disable program

Problem with this one is that the ISY doesn't seem to know that the Portrait Light has been turned on until it queries it (not an immediate result)

 

I tried:

If Control of Portrait Light is On

but it didn't do anything at all when I flipped the switch (may need a query as well).

 

So - question - does anyone know how to get the ISY to respond immediately to the activation of a ToggleLinc?

[LeeG]

The If Control "ToggleLinc name" is On should work. Make sure the Program is Enabled and run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer and set Change level: to 3. Press the toggle On and see what event viewer messages are generated.

[wpmjones]

With the Level set to 3, when I turn on the ToggleLinc, nothing at all happens in the Event Viewer. I could be out of my mind, but shouldn't the ToggleLinc send a message back to the ISY (immediately) that says "Hey, I'm on now!" without the need for a manual query?

[LeeG]

You are correct about expecting to see messages in the Event log when pressing the ToggleLinc toggle. Try pressing the togglelinc toggle a little longer in the On position. A few users have complained that togglelincs do not respond to On/Off presses as fast as paddles do. You can even hold it On for a few seconds. The worst that will happen is it sends a start dim sequence rather than a simple On. If nothing is sent after holding for a few seconds then the analysis is why the device is not sending anything, or the messages are not reaching the ISY PLM.

 

Did you physically move the togglelinc since the last time it worked correctly.

 

Runs Tools | Diagnostics | Show Device Links Table to display the link records in the togglelinc. This will establish that the ISY PLM can communicate with the togglelinc and that the required link records are still present in the togglelinc. Have the Event Viewer level 3 active when you do this in case the ISY PLM cannot communicate with the togglelinc. Cannot trigger a Program until messages show in the Event Viewer when the toggle is pressed.

[wpmjones]

Thanks for the help Lee. Here's what I have now.

 

Tried holding the ToggleLinc in the on position for 5 seconds. No results in the Event Viewer.

 

Here is the result of the Show Device Links:

 

Error message:

-200000 Failed writing device link [bedroom - Patrick's Light]

-200000 Failed writing device link [bedroom - Jennifer's Light]

 

Here are the results of the Event Viewer during this run:

 

/28/2010 08:32:41 PM : [15 2B DB 1 ] Using engine version i2 for 'Portrait Light'

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:32:41 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.2B.DB 1F 2F 02 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (02)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:32:44 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.2B.DB 13.27.18 27 2F 02 (02)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:32:44 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.2B.DB-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:32:53 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.2B.DB 1F 2F 02 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (02)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:32:54 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.2B.DB 13.27.18 23 2F 02 (02)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:32:54 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.2B.DB-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:03 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.2B.DB 1F 2F 02 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (02)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:05 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.2B.DB 13.27.18 23 2F 02 (02)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:05 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.2B.DB-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:09 PM : [15 13 79 1 ] Using engine version i2 for 'Bedroom - Patrick's Light'

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:09 PM : [15 13 79 1 ] Link 0 : 0FF8 [A200132718FF1F00] Writing [A200132718FF1F00]

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:09 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.13.79 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:10 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.13.79 13.27.18 27 2F 00 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:10 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.13.79-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:13 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 15 13 79 13 27 18 13 2F 00 01 01 00 FF 01 A2 00 13 27 18 FF 00 00 00

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:13 PM : [Extended-Direct][15.13.79-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:13 PM : [Ext. Msg. Handler] Duplicate response: ignored

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:22 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.13.79 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:22 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.13.79 13.27.18 27 2F 00 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:22 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.13.79-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:31 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.13.79 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:32 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.13.79 13.27.18 27 2F 00 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:32 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.13.79-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:32 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 15 13 79 13 27 18 12 2F 00 01 01 00 FF 01 A2 00 13 27 18 FF 00 00 00

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:32 PM : [Extended-Direct][15.13.79-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=2, Hops Left=0

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:32 PM : [Ext. Msg. Handler] Duplicate response: ignored

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:36 PM : [15 13 79 1 ] Link 0 : 0FF8 [A200132718FF1F00] *Failed Writing [A200132718FF1F00]

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:36 PM : [15 14 AD 1 ] Using engine version i2 for 'Bedroom - Jennifer's Light'

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:36 PM : [15 14 AD 1 ] Link 0 : 0FF8 [A200132718FF1F00] Writing [A200132718FF1F00]

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:36 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.14.AD 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:37 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.14.AD 13.27.18 27 2F 00 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:37 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.14.AD-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.14.AD 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:47 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.14.AD 13.27.18 27 2F 00 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:47 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.14.AD-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:48 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 15 14 AD 13 27 18 13 2F 00 01 01 00 FF 01 A2 00 13 27 18 FF 00 00 00

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:48 PM : [Extended-Direct][15.14.AD-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:48 PM : [Ext. Msg. Handler] Duplicate response: ignored

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:50 PM : [ Time] 20:33:50 0(0)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:57 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 15.14.AD 1F 2F 00 00 00 0F FF 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:57 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 15.14.AD 13.27.18 27 2F 00 (00)

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:57 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][15.14.AD-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:59 PM : [iNST-ERX ] 02 51 15 14 AD 13 27 18 13 2F 00 01 01 00 FF 01 A2 00 13 27 18 FF 00 00 00

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:59 PM : [Extended-Direct][15.14.AD-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=0

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:33:59 PM : [Ext. Msg. Handler] Duplicate response: ignored

 

 

Sat 08/28/2010 08:34:03 PM : [15 14 AD 1 ] Link 0 : 0FF8 [A200132718FF1F00] *Failed Writing [A200132718FF1F00]

 

Portrait Light = ToggleLinc in question

Bedroom - Jennifer's Light = Appliance On/Off (to be turned off in program)

Bedroom - Patrick's Light = Appliance On/Off (to be turned off in program)

[LeeG]

The attempt to display theToggleLinc link database failed because of what I think is a bug in the ISY at 2.7.15. Newer devices indicate and do support the ALDB Extended command for accessing the link database. I think the ISY is using an invalid value in the cmd2 field when issuing this command. Something to do with what the ISY does when working with the IRLinc and somehow has carried over to devices other than the IRLinc. I ran into this testing the EZFlora on the 2.8.0 Alpha which was fixed for the EZFlora in the 2.8.1 Beta. I don’t know if 2.8.1 would work any better with the ToggleLinc. There was a post a few days ago where a user was having trouble adding a ToggleLinc. The suggested work around was to use the Start Linking option for adding devices. That is not an option when attempting to display the device link database. Bottom line is I don’t know what is actually in the device link database but highly suspect the link records are missing. Otherwise you would see Group message activity when pressing the toggle. I’m afraid this one will have to wait for UDI folks to respond unless you want to load the 2.8.1 Beta and try it.

[wpmjones]

Thanks Lee. I'll give them a few days and may call on Monday if I find time. (BTW - I'm the same sucker in the other post that was trying to add the ToggleLinc and couldn't! hehe)

[LeeG]

That actually makes sense. The Start Linking option worked well enough to get the device added to the ISY but did not get the Controller link records written. That is only a guess but would be consistent with not seeing anything when the toggle is pressed. Michel does not work Saturdays (he actually gets a day off, go figure ). I'm sure UDI will chime in.

[Michel Kohanim]

First of all, I want to thank LeeG for his invaluable help and support.

 

I do not think the IRLinc issue is related to this issue.

 

wpmjones, there are two cases where you would not see the status from your devices reflected in ISY:

1. You already have TOO many links in your PLM especially if it's an old one

2. There's a signal issue

 

What I suggest is: right mouse click on the ToggleLinc and then choose Restore Device. If this fixes the problem then the problem is your PLM. If not, then the problem is signal/noise related.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[wpmjones]

Restore Device seems to have helped. Now, if I hold the ToggleLinc on for about 1 second, the Event Viewer responds immediately (and the program kicks off).

 

Event Viewer of Restore: http://www.mayodev.com/Docs/ToggleLincRestore.txt

Event Viewer of ToggleLinc on: http://www.mayodev.com/Docs/ToggleOn.txt

 

So considering there are only six lights and a TriggerLinc on my whole system, what might be the problem with the PLM and what can I do to fix it?

 

(If it's important, I get the same results when trying to show the device link table for this device)

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello wpmjones,

 

The first question I have is how did you register your devices in ISY? Did you use the third option (add devices found in link and import existing links)? If so, that might explain the missing link record in the PLM: in some cases, previous linkages when done by HouseLinc create phantom or orphaned links. As such, my recommendation is:

1. To remove those devices that were added using this method

2. Do a factory reset on them

3. Add them back in

 

If this fixes the problem, then you do not have to worry about PLM being defective.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[wpmjones]

I really appreciate the help!!

 

What if I didn't use that method? I kept it on the first option to Remove existing links. Should I try removing it and re-adding it anyway?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello wpmjones,

 

If you have this problem with all your devices AND IF doing a device restore fixes others as well, the I would suspect the PLM (i.e. for some reason the PLM is losing the link records).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[wpmjones]

I removed the device and did a factory reset on the ToggleLinc in question and added it back in (using the remove existing links option). Same results. Event Log shows nothing for an On, Off, Fast On or Fast Off. Ironically, if I Fade Up or Fade Down, it reports immediately to the Event Log.

 

If I select "Show PLM Links Table" and click Start, it always comes back blank. I just don't know enough about this to know what to expect. I guess the PLM may be defective. What's the warranty on these suckers? It would make sense. My kitchen light (ToggleLinc non-dim) gets communication errors from time to time.

[LeeG]

How are you adding the ToggleLinc to the ISY. I just did a New INSTEON Device specifying the Name, Address and Auto Discover. The process added the ToggleLinc with the necessary link records. This is a v3A ToggleLinc Dimmer running on 2.8.2.

[wpmjones]

Same process. When I try and add it manually it fails. I click Start Linking and select the option to remove links. Hit the switch on the ToggleLinc to get into Set mode and it adds it. It's a v3A ToggleLinc. ISY version is 2.7.15.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi, the main question is what do you have in your PLM. If you have no link records in your PLM (or if they keep disappearing) then there's surely something wrong with the PLM.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[wpmjones]

I must have the worst luck in the world! LOL I started off with a PLC trying to use something like HomeSeer or mControl and that PLC was bad. Swapped it only to realize that neither of those programs could do everything I wanted. Sent the PLC back and got the ISY with the PLM and now it looks like it's bad. I'll call SmartHome today and see about swapping it out.

 

Thanks for the help!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello wpmjones,

 

My pleasure but now that you have provided some history, I am wondering if there's a link between the two: is it possible that the outlet/circuit to which the PLM/PLC are connected has problems?

 

Also, can you verify that indeed you do NOT have any links in your PLM?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[wpmjones]

I've tried four different outlets in different parts of the house. Here is what I did looking for links.

 

Tools > Diagnostics > Show PLM Links Table

It gives me a blank screen with buttons at the bottom.

I clicked Start and it processes some stuff, but the window always stays empty. Seems odd because I have programs that work well and everything, I just can't get devices to report their status back to the ISY instantly when controlled at the device.

 

Are there other things I can test to confirm the real issue?

[LeeG]

Programs that are directly controlling devices do not use link records in the PLM or the devices. Only Scenes and recognizing device state changes require link records. Try Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer Change level: 3, then initiate Show PLM links. The trace should look something like this which is only the first few lines of my Show PLM links request,,,,

 

Thu 09/16/2010 06:24:05 PM : [GET-LNK-RSP ] 02 69 06

 

Thu 09/16/2010 06:24:05 PM : [LNK-DATA ] 02 57 A2 01 01 DB DE 03 0D 00

 

Thu 09/16/2010 06:24:05 PM : [GET-NEXT-LNK-RSP] 02 6A 06

 

Thu 09/16/2010 06:24:05 PM : [LNK-DATA ] 02 57 A2 02 01 DB DE 03 0D 00

 

Thu 09/16/2010 06:24:06 PM : [GET-NEXT-LNK-RSP] 02 6A 06

 

Thu 09/16/2010 06:24:06 PM : [LNK-DATA ] 02 57 E2 13 01 DC 76 07 08 00

 

Seems like an odd PLM failure that it can communication with the powerline and devices okay but not hold link records.

[wpmjones]

Link Table (actually got a result this time):

http://www.mayodev.com/Docs/PLM_Links.txt

(for the record, I have 7 devices on my network, not counting the PLM)

 

Event Log:

http://www.mayodev.com/Docs/ISY_Log.txt

 

Lemme know what you think. Your comment makes a lot of sense because my scenes never work properly either. I thought I was doing something wrong.

[LeeG]

The PLM has only 2 link records at present. They are for 15.BC.7D which from the link records I think this is a ToggleLinc Relay at revision 3A. Did you do a Restore device for this device or recently add this device to the ISY?

 

The remainder of the Event Log trace is trying to write link records into device 15.13.79 Bedroom – Jennifer’s Light and 15.14.AD Bedroom – Patrick’s Light. What type of device are these and at what revision? This activity is not part of the Show PLM. Probably something queued the ISY wants to complete but is not able to. The device response is odd as the link record address returned does not fall within the normal link database address range. Perhaps knowing what the device type is will help understand the device response.

 

How many devices are actually defined to the ISY at this time?

[wpmjones]

7 devices on the network:

4 ToggleLincs

2 Icon Appliance On/Off (those are the bedroom lights it's trying to write)

1 TriggerLinc

 

The Icons are listed as such in ISY

Icon Relay 3-Pin v.39

 

Just about any time I do things in the ISY, it tries to write to these two. I assumed this was normal, but perhaps not.

 

Recommendations? (Thanks for the assist!)

[LeeG]

For sure something has happened to the link records in the PLM (unless it stopped at 2 records due to powerline activity). You could try doing a few Show PLM requests to see if it always shows only 2 links. The system cannot function correctly with those 2 link records. Scenes will not work and the ISY will not see device state changes except for that one device address listed in the 2 link records.

 

Something wiped out the link records in the PLM. A factory reset of the PLM, a PLM failure, or something anomalous that we have not identified. Michel could very well be correct that the PLM is defective.

 

I'm a techno junky so I would pursue the question but that is up to you. Simple answer might be get a new PLM. I'm happy to continue to pursue an answer as long as you want to. You can try a File | Restore Modem (PLM ) and see if that gets all the PLM link records restored.

 

If that does not work then I would start from the beginning. Remove all the devices, add one back and Show PLM to verify link records are in the PLM for that device. Then add another device and Show PLM to verify that both devices have link records in the PLM, And so on.

 

If you do that I would add the ICON Appliance devices last as I think there might be a problem with those devices. They support only 30 links which puts the link record addresses outside the range of the normal Insteon devices. I think that is why the link record address looks strange but is probably correct for a device that supports only 30 link records. The normal link database memory that is in every Insteon device does not exist in the ICON Appliance module. That is one of the reasons they are less expensive than the normal ApplianceLinc. The Event trace indicates the link record read from the ICON device was a duplicate and was ignored. It is not a duplicate from the trace records in the Event trace but the odd link record address may be causing a problem. That is why I would leave the ICON Appliance modules for last.