Is the 2413s that much faster than 2412s PLM?

[gfridland]

Is it possible that the new dual band PLM is too fast for some functions?

 

I have been using the ISY to monitor and execute scenes to eliminate the issue that KPL's have where the main load is to be controlled by a secondary button on the same KPL.

 

When using the 2412s standard modem, the program would execute without a hitch.

 

If button C is pressed, then turn a scene which includes button A of the same KPL on.

 

After installing the dual band 2413s, the program would execute, but not turn the button A scene on...strange right?

 

The Fix...a 3 second wait on the "then"

 

If button C is pressed, then WAIT 3 SECONDS and turn a scene which includes button A of the same KPL on.

 

So...is this related to the speed of the PLM? Or am I missing something?

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello gfridland,

 

It's possible but before going any further, please go to Configuration | System and make sure Wait while busy reading is checked (lower left box).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[gfridland]

Hi Michel,

 

"Wait while busy reading" is checked in the configuration menu...

 

Thanks for your help...

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi gfridland,

 

Would you please go to Tools | Diagnostics | Scene Test and choose the scene to which the problematic KPL belongs. Does this fail or succeed?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[gfridland]

Michel...All scenes test are successful. I have not seen any communication issues in my system for a very long time.

 

In the ISY, when the program does not have the WAIT line, all devices/kpls show status as correct, but the KPL from which the command was sent does not execute correctly. After query, the ISY status of kpl is corrected to match device.

 

If I execute the scene from the ISY (not from the KPL) all works fine.

 

If I insert the WAIT, then all is ok as well. The delay must be 3 seconds...1 or 2 does not correct the issue.

 

Thanks again!

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi gfridland,

 

Just so that I understand:

1. You have a KPL based on the status of which a scene is turned on/off

2. The same scene includes one of the buttons in the KPL

 

Correct?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Sub-Routine]

3 seconds is very long for Insteon commands, 1/2 second is more usual. X10 commands can take 3 seconds though.

 

If you don't mind opening theEvent Viewer and pressing the KPL button do you see any X10 events?

 

Rand

[gfridland]

Michel...

 

I'm unclear on your 1st question...to clarify my setup:

 

I have (2) 8 button KPLs which each control a load in a large hallway.

 

The hallway has a total of 8 devices which are all part of various hallway scenes.

 

There are a total of 5 scenes in the hallway.

 

Each of the 2 KPLs controls 1 load and is part of one hallway scene.

 

On #1 KPL,

 

Button A = Main Hall lights (load)

Button B = All Hall On/Off

Button C = Kids hall lights

Button D = Stairs Lights

Button E = Master Accent lights

 

On #2 KPL,

 

Button A = Main Hall lights (NO connected load)

Button B = All Hall On/Off

Button C = Kids hall lights

Button D = Stairs Lights

Button E = Master Accent lights

 

When I press the All Hall On/Off button on #2 KPL, all scenes execute but KPL buttons A,C,D,E do not change on only #2 KPL. #1 KPL executes correctly including all associated buttons.

 

When I press the All Hall On/Off button on #1 KPL, all scenes except the Main Hall lights scene executes but KPL buttons A,C,D,E do not change on only #1 KPL. #2 KPL executes correctly including all associated buttons.

 

This occurs in either All Hall On/off is turned ON or OFF

 

In order to fix this issue...which was always an issue (both 2412s and 2413s), I have a program that watches for the All Hall On/Off button press and executes the All Hall Scene again. However, with the 2413s PLM, the program would not correct the KPL to match the scene. A Wait command of 3 seconds fixed the issue with the 2413s...

 

Did I confuse everyone thoroughly? Sorry!

[gfridland]

Rand...no X10 commands are being recorded in the Event viewer. I do not have X10 devices on the network and specifically factory reset each device prior to adding into the system to avoid any leftover X10 links that may come from the factory...

 

Thank you.

[LeeG]

Are both KPLs button B Controllers of the same Scene the Program Then section is invoking?

[gfridland]

LeeG,

 

Yes, both KPL's button B are controlling the same scene. As a matter of fact, the KPL layout is identical to each other...they are in opposite parts of the hall.

[LeeG]

First the Dual Band PLM does have a faster processor. This is both from a user who took one apart and a post from Steve Lee (Smarthome rep) documenting the fact that the 2413 PLM has a faster processor.

 

Also the link record order in the 2413 could well be different than what was in the 2412 PLM. The links in the 2412 would have accumulated over time as devices and Scenes were created, changed etc. The link records in the 2413 PLM were created by the ISY Admin Console command to Restore Modem (PLM). This could put the links used by the ISY as a Controller of the Scene closer to the beginning of the link database.

 

I am afraid the question is more how did it work before than why it has a problem now. The KPL hardware/firmware is driving the Scene since button B is a Controller of the Scene. This ISY PLM hardware/firmware is driving the same Scene since the ISY Program is also initiating the Scene. Two devices driving the same Scene at the same time is a failure just waiting to happen.

 

Not sure why the redundant initiating of the same Scene. I would either remove button B as a Controller of the Scene, making it a Responder only or stop driving the Scene with the ISY Program. The Scene should execute correctly with only 1 Controller driving the Scene at a time. Either the KPL button B or the ISY Program, but not both at the same time. Or use the delay and effectively drive the Scene twice.

[gfridland]

LeeG...I appreciate your comments...

 

The reason for driving the scene from both the KPL's and the ISY is because of the issue that KPL's exhibit when trying to control the load on a kpl with a secondary button on the same kpl. This has always been a problem...both with the 2412 and 2413.

 

I have been able to successfully deal with this by using the ISY program to minitor the event and upon seeing it, send the command from the ISY directly to re-execute the command on the KPL and re-synch the KPL to the devices.

 

If I execute the scene from the ISY or from any other controller other than the KPL's, everything works well.

 

The reason I prefer to do it locally and not through a program is because of the delay that the ISY program places into the scene. Often, when I execute a program with multiple scenes, there is a 1-2 second delay in final execution. When the devices are linked together, there is no noticable delay.

 

Perhaps, it would be faster with the new PLM, but it works ok with the 3 second WAIT command.

[LeeG]

Thanks for the explanation. That all makes perfect sense. I fully agree about the delay which is why I have all but a very few conditions directly linked (Motion Sensor for example). I would leave the delay in the Program. Nothing can be done about the faster speed of the new PLM nor would you want to. It might be possible to move the link records associated with the ISY being the Scene Controller to the end of the PLM link database but it would require an additional PLM for powerline interface and another piece of software. Also not at all sure it would add enough delay to make it function as it did on the 2412. After doing that it would not be possible to use the Restore Modem (PLM) function. Just too much exposure when the simple delay works.