jtara92101 Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 I'm trying to trigger a program using Controll Off in the If. This works fine for the "main" button on the KPL. But testing Control Off for any of the sub-buttons (A-D) just plain doesn't work. Right now, I don't have the program doing anything - I am simply looking at the "last run" time to see if the program has run. It hasn't. I tried factory-resetting and restoring the device. Didn't help. The KPL is v1.8. I don't think I've ever been able to get this to work, but I just isolated it to the sub-buttons. I had been under the impression that "control" didn't work, but then I accidentally discovered that it does work for Switchlincs, and now I see it also works for the main on/off button. What's the secret? I have the button in "non-toggle OFF" mode, and not grouped. But those settings don't seem to matter. The button is a responder in a scene containing only itself. I use that scene to control the LED so that it is lit if lights in other parts of the house are on. But, again, this has no effect on the problem. I tried a different button that isn't a responder to anything with the same results.
jtara92101 Posted October 30, 2010 Author Posted October 30, 2010 OK, seems to be a bad KPL. This works on my other KPLs, regardless of version. It works on V1.8 and V5.3 So, I'll see if Smarthome will replace it. I've already factory-reset the KPL, so not sure what else I could do.
oberkc Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 Yes, it could be a bad KPL. If you are interested in further checks, open the event viewer and press a button on the "bad" KPL. See if the event viewer registers receipt of the signal. It is also possible that the "bad" KPL is in a location that the ISY/PLM has difficult hearing, for whatever reason. You can try plugging the KPL into different outlets (extension cord may be necessary) and see if you get the same results.
LeeG Posted October 30, 2010 Posted October 30, 2010 The suggestion by oberkc is a good way to test for communication issues at a particular location. If you do decide to test this be sure to Restore the KPL link database before testing. Insteon devices must have a Controller link record for every button and the PLM must have a Reeponder link record for the same buttons. Without these you will not see any traffic from the KPL button press in the Event Viewer at change level 3. The easiest way to insure links are in both devices is to Remove the KPL from the ISY and add it back. The ISY will write the necessary link records in the KPL and the PLM.
jtara92101 Posted October 31, 2010 Author Posted October 31, 2010 The easiest way to insure links are in both devices is to Remove the KPL from the ISY and... How do I do that? There's no obvious way to "remove" a device from the ISY. I've wanted to do that in the past, but couldn't find how you do it. There is a "disable" option, but I dont think that's what you mean.
LeeG Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 In the My Lighting tree, right click on the device and select Remove.
jtara92101 Posted October 31, 2010 Author Posted October 31, 2010 I know this sounds strange, but that doesn't work. There is no "remove" when you right click on it. In fact, there's nothing. Now, I DID get a "remove" option the first time I tried this. But I decided not to do it yet, as I wanted to write down my settings, remove the switch from scenes, etc. Now I don't get a right-click menu on ANY devices. I even closed and re-opened the admin console... As well, in the "My Lighting" display, there is nothing shown for "Current State" for the four small buttons on the "bad" KPL. (I do get a current state for the main button.) If I do a Query, though, then the Current State DOES show after that. I do have a bit more information, though. I do NOT see anything in the log when I press those keys. But I'm not sure that I should be, as I tested this on a "good" KPL, and you don't see anything in the log unless the switch is actually linked to something. So, for example, I have a KPL where A controls a pump and B controls a fountain on my balcony. C and D haven't been programmed to do anything. I see it in the log when I press A or B, but not C or D. I'm wondering is the ISY is being "too smart for it's own good". I just checked the current state column for the "good" KPL. It toggles for A and B, but not C and D. Yes, that is it! I added a little program with an "If Control Balcony C On". No traffic is seen, the current state doesn't change, the program doesn't run. Apparently, simply having a program reference a switch isn't enough to get it linked to the ISY?
LeeG Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 I have no suggestions regarding how the Admin Console is operating. It still sounds like the link records are not correct either in the KPL itself or the PLM. Using Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer, set the change level to 3 and press button C. I expect you will not see messages in the Event Viewer window. The Remove is still the suggested next step. Someone with more insight into the Admin Console will have to address its current operation. It is not necessary to remove the device from Scenes before doing a Remove device. The ISY does this automatically. It does not delete the Scene, simply removes the device from each Scene before removing the device entry itself from the My Lighting tree. What level firmware are you running in the ISY?
LeeG Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Between when the Remove device option was presented as an option and when it was not did you initiate some activity such as removing the device from one or more Scenes? It may not present the Remove device option while the ISY is performing other tasks related to that device. The status at the bottom of the ISY window may say something other than Ready if it is working on something. The links necessary for the ISY to be aware of a button press so that a Program can be triggered with a Control On for example are established when the device was originally added to the ISY.
jtara92101 Posted October 31, 2010 Author Posted October 31, 2010 Well, now I've got another KPL that doesn't work. The ISY doesn't follow the status of the D button on my kitchen KPL when it is pressed. This is also true for the C and D buttons on my balcony KPL, and the A, B, C, and D buttons on my master bedroom KPL. Office KPL works as you'd expect. I can see status updates on all 4 buttons. Smarthome previously RMA'd my PLM. They replaced it with the dual-band model, since they no longer had the original one in stock. Not sure if I unlinked things properly when I replaced it. Is it possible that there's no way to remove links to the old PLM? I factory-reset all of the troublesome KPLs and they still act the same way.
jtara92101 Posted October 31, 2010 Author Posted October 31, 2010 OK, I found a work-around to get the small buttons on the KPL linked to the PLM. (Right-click on the device list isn't working, so I can't "remove" a device from the ISY). 1. Create a new scene 2. Put some light in the scene as a responder (not sure if this is necessary) 3. Put the button which isn't sending messages to the ISY in the new scene as a controller 4. Push the button to verify that the light comes on. 5. Remove the light and the button from the scene, and remove the scene. This procedure has restored communication with the ISY with all of the previously-unresponsive buttons. I am getting a lot of "Process message failed" messages in the log.
Michel Kohanim Posted October 31, 2010 Posted October 31, 2010 Hello jtara92101, The first thing I would do is to make sure your PLM has not reached its capacity. Please do the following: 1. Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Status/Info .. please let me know what you see 2. Tools | Diagnostics | Show PLM Links Table and when complete click on the count button In short, for you to get status updates back from the KPLs, there must exist a slave link in the PLM for that specific KPL+Button combination. I think for some reason either these records are missing or are not being created. With kind regards, Michel
Michel Kohanim Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Hello jtara92101, Do you seen any traffic in the event viewer (on level 3) when you click any of those buttons? With kind regards, Michel
jtara92101 Posted November 1, 2010 Author Posted November 1, 2010 Do you seen any traffic in the event viewer (on level 3) when you click any of those buttons? Now I do, but I didn't before I fixed it. You may have missed one post: I was able to fix the problem by adding the KPL and all of it's buttons to a scene as controller, adding something to control, verifying that all the buttons can control the load, then deleting the scene. After doing this, all of the buttons will then produce traffic. They didn't produce traffic until they were first added to a scene as controller. I think they may have somehow still been linked to the old PLM.
Michel Kohanim Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Hello jtara92101, There's definitely something very wrong either with the KPLs or the PLM (I think it's the latter). All links should be written when you add a KPL to ISY so that you would get status updates. If not - and if you do not have 0101 green icon next to it - then there's something very wrong. With kind regards, Michel
LeeG Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Michel, I think the problem started when he replaced his 2412 PLM with a new 2413 PLM. The PLM link count does not suggest of overflow of the PLM. Perhaps something happened during the replacement of the PLM. Lee
Michel Kohanim Posted November 1, 2010 Posted November 1, 2010 Hi LeeG, I must agree with you (as always). It seems that the master links were missing in the PLM and thus no status updates. Thanks so very much and with kind regards, Michel
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