Use two KPL buttons to control a scene

[tdmarra]

Hi,

 

How do I get two buttons on a KPL to control a scene? I basically want the A button to act as a bright/on and the C button to act as the dim/off. It seems to make sense to use "grouping buttons" and make A and C mutally exclusive however there are warnings: "It is highly recommended that button groupings are migrated/accomplished through Scenes by adjusting respective On Levels" I'm not sure what this sentence means. I have a scene ... do I need two scenes, one for On and one for Off? Any help appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Tom

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Tom,

 

The major issue is that all KPL dimmer buttons do in fact support bright and dim and thus it would be a little difficult to have a button act as an on/off and the other as Dim/Brighten.

 

To use buttons in a scene, you simply drag and drop them into the scene (one scene) both as controllers and then you adjust on level/ramp rate for all the responders in that scene for each specific button.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[LeeG]

tdmarra

 

Another approach, besides the one Michel described, is to set KPL button A to non-toggle On mode and KPL button C to non-toggle Off mode. When button A is pressed it always sends an On command to the responder linked to the button. Pressing button A will turn On the responder. Pressing and holding button A will cause the responder to ramp up. Button C will always send an Off command. Pressing button C will turn Off the responder. Pressing and hold button C will cause the responder to ramp down. That will give to desired responder result. May not give you the KPL button LED response you want. If you describe what you want the KPL button LEDS to do perhaps that can be worked into the scenario.

 

Lee

[tdmarra]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for the feedback. Regarding the LED's, I would like the A button to be illuminated whenever the scene is on, regardless of the level (1% to 100%). And I would like the C button to be illuminated only when the scene is off. When the scene is off, the A button would not be illuminated. With this approach, the A and C buttons would mimic the behavior of the ON and OFF buttons of a KPL dimmer actually controlling the load of the scene.

 

Thanks,

Tom

[oberkc]

Regarding the LED's, I would like the A button to be illuminated whenever the scene is on, regardless of the level (1% to 100%). And I would like the C button to be illuminated only when the scene is off.

As LeeG suggested, this is the sort of LED behaviour which would require some additional program in the ISY-99. But, first, a little background:

 

a. keypad buttons in the "non-toggle on" mode will always be illuminated, unless commanded to be otherwise by a linked device (such as the ISY/PLM)

b. keypad buttons in the "non-toogle off" mode will always be off, unless commanded to be otherwise by a linked device (such as the ISY/PLM)

c. when non-toggle X buttons are pressed, they will flash then resort to their native lighting mode.

d. Some versions (maybe all) of keypads' secondary buttons may not be controllable directly from the ISY.

e. While you did not explicitly state so, I assume the load is being controlled by some unspecified insteon device. I will call it "load".

 

Given the understanding above, I would first create two scenes. One scene would include KPL-A as a responder only. The second scene would include KPL-C as a responder only. Of course, you would also have to create the scene suggested by LeeG, which includes the KPL-A and KPL-C as controllers and the load device as responder.

 

I would then create a program:

 

if
status "load" is not off
then 
set scene KPL-A on
set scene KPL-C off
else
set scene KPL-A off
set scene KPL-C on

[LeeG]

Tom

 

That is a more complex problem to handle. It will take some ISY Programs to accomplish that LED behavior. Some older KPLs use the LED On/Off state to determine non-toggle On versus non-toggle Off. Newer KPLs no longer have that specific dependency but I'm not sure if changing the LED On/Off pattern would have other effects.

 

Essentially the Programs would be looking for specific commands from each KPL button, On, Fade Up, Fade Stop from KPL button A and Off, Fade Down, Fade Stop from KPL button C to determine the state of button A and C LEDs. The Fade Down Fade Stop is also a challenge as the final responder Status will have to determine if the Fade Down actually turned the responder off versus just dimming the level. There is no such thing as a Scene Status. If the KPL button LED pattern can be achieved it will represent only one responder. A Fade Down could turn Off some responders and only dim others. Just depends on the Bright level of each responder when the Fade Down is started.

 

Will be an interesting set of Programs.

 

Lee

 

EDIT: I started out with the assumption that multiple responders would be controlled by KPL buttons A and C. oberkc Program is really a very simple answer that should work just fine if changing the KPL button LEDs has no adverse effect. Thanks oberkc!

[oberkc]

oberkc Program is really a very simple answer that should work just fine if changing the KPL button LEDs has no adverse effect. Thanks oberkc!

 

This scenerio is nearly identical to the wiki example on garage door control. Set the keypad on non-toggle off. Create a scene where the sensor controls the keypad. I see no adverse affects of having a non-toggle keypad turned on or off.

 

Of course, I have not tried this, and there can always be complications that I don't forsee. Could there be timing issues (do non-toggle buttons recieve scene commands while flashing?) Maybe.

[LeeG]

oberkc

 

That is good information. Several of my KPLs are vintage where the LED state On or Off determines whether the non-toggle mode button sends On commands or Off commands. In the beginning some folks took advantage of that and changed the non-toggle mode on the fly by changing the LED On/Off state. When the KPL firmware was changed to move the non-toggle mode On/Off to internal memory some were disappointed and frustrated. That is what happens when an unpublished characteristic is exploited.

 

The technique you used with the Program If also works if multiple responders were being controlled. All the Responder Status not Off conditions could be ORed together so if any responder is On button A would be On. Only when all responders are Off would button C be On. Hardly a day goes by where I don't learn something new about how use to the ISY. Thanks again.

 

Lee

[oberkc]

In the beginning some folks took advantage of that and changed the non-toggle mode on the fly by changing the LED On/Off state.

Hopefully, tdmarra does not have any of those "vintage" keypads. Mine are relatively new.

[tdmarra]

I have brand new KPL's. Thanks for all the suggestions. I will try them out soon and let you know how they worked.

 

Thanks,

Tom