ekapigian Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 It is apparent this error "discovering nodes" has still not been fixed by UD. I started receiving this error message earlier today (ISY ver 2.8.2). ISY abruptly stopped communicating with 80% of my devices. I tried rebooting the device, unplugging it and removing devices that weren't communicating with ISY. Nothing worked. In fact, now ISY can't find the devices I removed to re-link them. I tried upgrade to the newest software - ver 2.8.10. Still same issues with "discovering nodes" error. My devices still cannot be re-linked and I'm about ready to throw this f****n thing out the window. Only change that has been made to the network recently is we switched from AT&T dsl to uverse service about a month ago. I can't see how this could be an issue but, nevertheless thought I would throw it out there. Any help would be appreciated!
LeeG Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 ekapigian Try Help | About to verify 2.8.10 is actually installed. The steps published for updating to 2.8.10 have a few unique items. A few folks (me included) had problems getting to 2.8.10 because the steps were not followed exactly. Once verified that 2.8.10 is running what is the actual problem. I've been running 2.8.10 since the day it was released and have not had a problem that presented as Discovering Nodes. Thanks Lee
Michel Kohanim Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Hello ekapigian, I am not sure whether or not you know that we have a dedicated tech support team who can help you. Please do not take drastic measures such as factory reset (or throwing it out the window) before having a chat with our tech support. This has nothing to do with your AT&T router. From personal experience, this issue is related to the following three causes: 1. You have some devices that are in pending write state. Please go through each device (on the left) and make sure you do not have any green 0101 icons. If you do, disable those devices 2. The PLM is defective ... 3. Java Cache With kind regards, Michel
ekapigian Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 @ LeeG - yes, I have verified 2.8.10 is actually installed. @ Michel - sorry for the rant. It was late and I was very frustrated. I won't be throwing anything out the window, if nothing else, for the simple fact it is too expensive to justify it. My comments stemmed primarily from some previous posts on this forum where UD's response to this discovering nodes error was basically "this was a bug in the older software which has since been corrected". I will take your advice and call technical support. However, I'm not sure the issue is related to the three causes you have listed: 1. There are no devices in pending write state from what I can tell. I don't use events to query devices. In fact, almost all my events related to IR commands. 2. I suppose it is possible the PLM is defective. However, I'm only having communication issues with 80% of my devices, the other 20% or so work fine. As to the 80%, ISY shows a red exclamation point next to the device name. 3. I have tried clearing the Java cache too. This doesn't seem to resolve the issue. A few unusual observations I made during troubleshooting last night -- (1) On a several occasions when I was trying to re-link the devices I had removed, the ISY GUI would not allow me to link any devices. What I mean is - I would go to "Link Management" and click on the "Start Linking" button, but nothing would happen. The GUI would not open the "Linking in progress" popup window or give me the option to add/remove devices, etc. This happened on multiple occasions although I can't say for sure it happened after updating from ver 2.8.2 to 2.8.10. (2) After updating to 2.8.10, I still get communication errors with 80% of my devices, however, I now can send commands (i.e. "on" "off" etc.) to the "trouble" devices through the ISY interface and the devices will respond (which I wasn't able to do before).
oberkc Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 A shot in the dark here... You mentioned switching from ATT to uverse. Did this change include any change to your electronics (new power supplies, devices)? Have there been any other recent addtions to your collection of household electronics?
ekapigian Posted January 21, 2011 Author Posted January 21, 2011 oberkc - good question. It did slip my mind when we switched from ATT dsl to uverse, I also switched our phone service from ATT's standard voice service to their uverse voice, which I believe is some type of VOIP service. The only change in electronic devices from the switch (as far as I know) was a switch in the modem/router. The uverse router is quite bigger and the main phone line actually plugs directly into it. I am a "gadget" guy as most of us on this forum probably are, so I'm always buying some new equipment or device. Only recent changes I can think of are (1) I hooked a Netflix Roku box up to our tv in the bedroom, but I doubt this would cause an issue; and (2) just last weekend I switched the phone jacks in all three bedrooms to RJ45 ethernet jacks. We have a main phone line and handsets for each room, so the phone jacks were pointless. The switch was pretty simple as the phone lines were already running off cat5 wiring. All I did was install a separate 4 port switch in our access panel (where the router is also located) and connected the switch to an unused port on the back of the router. This shouldn't have any affect on the ISY/PLM though, which is still hooked directly to the router on a separate port.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Hello ekapigian, No problem at all ... I would also be frustrated had I been in your shoes. If you can communicate with 80% of your devices, then we have to think about either a device that is faulty and is causing noise OR an access point that might have been disconnected. Questions: 1. Are you sure that your access points (if any) were not disconnected by the cable guy? 2. Do you have any SwitchLinc v35s in your system? With kind regards, Michel
oberkc Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 oberkc - good question. It did slip my mind when we switched from ATT dsl to uverse, I also switched our phone service from ATT's standard voice service to their uverse voice, which I believe is some type of VOIP service. The only change in electronic devices from the switch (as far as I know) was a switch in the modem/router. The uverse router is quite bigger and the main phone line actually plugs directly into it. I am a "gadget" guy as most of us on this forum probably are, so I'm always buying some new equipment or device. Only recent changes I can think of are (1) I hooked a Netflix Roku box up to our tv in the bedroom, but I doubt this would cause an issue; and (2) just last weekend I switched the phone jacks in all three bedrooms to RJ45 ethernet jacks. We have a main phone line and handsets for each room, so the phone jacks were pointless. The switch was pretty simple as the phone lines were already running off cat5 wiring. All I did was install a separate 4 port switch in our access panel (where the router is also located) and connected the switch to an unused port on the back of the router. This shouldn't have any affect on the ISY/PLM though, which is still hooked directly to the router on a separate port. I agree that the re-routing of your cables to different routers is probably not a problem. I am, however, concerned about the potential effect of noise on the powerline that new devices have the potential to add. Do you currently use ANY filter for ANY electronics. Based on my own (limited) experience, I suggest at least a filter for all of the computer stuff. I also suggest plugging your PLM into a circuit other than the one powering all that computer stuff. Where, by the way, is your PLM plugged in? Near all this computer stuff? Do you also have the typical UPS, surge suppressor, etc...? I know that trial-and-error is a crude troubleshooting tool, but it is worth trying when simple. If you are able, temporarily unplug as many of those new devices as you can. See if this helps. Alternatively, plug your PLM into a different circuit (use extension cord, if necessary). See if this helps. Also, don't ignore Michel's question regarding your access points. You do have access points, correct? Any dual band devices?
ekapigian Posted January 22, 2011 Author Posted January 22, 2011 Responding to Michel's two questions: (1) I use two dual band access points, primarily just for bridging the two phases of the powerline (our house is a modest 2000 sq ft). I was able to check one last night - it was plugged in and light was green. The second is in our bedroom and wife was sleeping so I didn't check that one. I'll do that when I get home. On whether they are still working correctly, I don't know. Since they don't show up as "devices" in ISY, I can only assume the green light means they are still working. Just a little background - my setup consists almost entirely of Switchlincs and Triggerlincs. I also use an IOLinc for garage door control. The setup is about a year old. Everything has worked flawlessly (aside from very minor glitches here and there) until recently. (2) I believe all the Switchlincs are v38? The model # is 2476D To Oberkc - I have most my major electronics plugged into name brand power strips, like Monster Powercenter, and computer & peripherals are plugged into APC backup. I believe these have their own filters, although I don't use any separate filters specifically designed for INSTEON products because I've never had any probs in the past. The ISY and PLM are setup in the living room, which is far away from the computer and access panel and on a different circuit. PLM is plugged directly into an outlet, not a power strip. Both the access points and PLM are dual band, but I don't currently have any devices that communicate via RF.
oberkc Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 It sounds like you have done all the right things with access points. Mine are the older versions, without color LEDs. I understand that green is good and indicative of a properly working and coupling devices. You dual-band PLM is further positive indication. While I understand that many power supplies and surge suppressors have "filters", I understand these to be for the conditioned computer power, and not to minimize electrical noise on the rest of your house electrical system. From reading forums such as this, computer power supplies are pretty notorious for interfering and degrading insteon signals. Given your setup, and lack of v35 devices, interference seems less likely than I had thought likely, but it is still a possibility and remains at the top of my personal suspicion list. Different circuits can help isolate devices, but it is not guaranteed. You can still try to unplug any devices added at the time of initial problems. I would even try shutting down and unplugging your computer system/power conditioner, if you can do this and verify results.
ekapigian Posted January 22, 2011 Author Posted January 22, 2011 Ok. I think I finally solved the issue. So I came home today to run a few tests. I tried to log into the ISY from the computer and ISY would not respond at all -- I got the "internet explorer cannot display this page". I thought this was odd so I decided to isolate and check just the ISY unit -- I have a few remotes programmed to communicate with ISY via ir so tried sending an ir command from a remote control to see whether a light would flash on the ISY indicating it received the command. I got no response whatsoever from the ISY. So I went to unplug it it thinking it had locked up and realized I had recently switched it from being plugged into a power cord to a surge protected power strip. At the time, I didn't think it mattered because the ISY unit doesn't send or receive insteon signals, like the PLM or other insteon devices, so it shouldn't matter what it is plugged into, right? Apparently I was wrong. Once I plugged it into a dedicated wall outlet, all of a sudden everything is fine and communicating perfectly. Maybe someone can shed some light on this?? Is there some reason ISY unit (not the PLM) can't be plugged into a surge protected power strip? Or maybe just the power strip I plugged it into is defective?
oberkc Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Neither would I have expect the power strip in which the ISY is plugged to cause this type of problem (barring failure of some sort). On the other hand, power strips have been known to interfere with insteon signals, so perhaps it was just causing problems on the rest of your house system. Another theory might be that simply re-booting your ISY solved the problem and it has nothing to do with power strips. Either theory may be easy to confirm. You could plug your ISY back into the power strip and see if the problem returns. You could try the power strip somewhere else in the house and see if it introduces communication problems. Or, like you say, maybe it is just defective.
ekapigian Posted January 26, 2011 Author Posted January 26, 2011 I tried plugging the ISY back into the power strip just to see how it would respond. Worked fine for about two days and then locked up again - I couldn't log on from the website and it wouldn't respond to direct ir commands . I'm still not sure why the power strip would be causing a problem. As far as I know, its not defective. There are two or three other devices plugged into it which have worked problem-free. Hopefully, its not a defect with the ISY. I've plugged it back into the wall in hope it is just an issue with the powerstip. I'll let you know if I continue to experience communication issues.
oberkc Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 You and I have the same understanding regarding the ISY. I don't believe there is any communication through the ISY powerstrip nor does the ISY care whether the power supply is plugged (assuming proper voltage and current). The only relationship that I can imagine between your powerstrip and insteon problems would be if the powerstrip was causing some level of noise on the powerline or absorbing insteon signals. I wonder if it is possible that plugging the ISY into the power strip CAUSES the power strip to emit such noise? That is hard for me to imagine being the case. I continue to suspect there is some indirect cause and effect going on here that we have yet to fully identify.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 26, 2011 Posted January 26, 2011 Hello ekapigian, Couple of questions: 1. What is your current firmware version? If not 2.8.11, please upgrade now 2. Did you use File | Enable Internet Access to enable remote access? In some cases we have seen some routers (especially Verizon/ActionTec) start blocking ISY after about a day. If you do not mind, please do File | Disable Internet Access and report back With kind regards, Michel
ekapigian Posted January 27, 2011 Author Posted January 27, 2011 Ok. Its not the powerstrip. Just came home today and ISY wouldn't respond again, even though its plugged directly into the wall. Michel - I saw your post and just upgraded to 2.8.11. It only made problems worse. Now all devices are intermittently having connection problems and ISY is very sluggish to respond to commands. If I press "on" for a device, it takes about 4-5 seconds or more before the device will respond -- and half the time it will just timeout and give me a connection error with a red exclamation point next to the device name. However, if I query the device, most times it will "connect" again. 2. I did not use "enable internet access". My ATT uverse is not compatible with that command. I had to manually configure port forwarding for the ISY and used no-ip to set up a host site to connect away from home. It doesn't sound like this would be a potential cause anyway because ISY still won't respond to direct ir commands from a remote control when it locks up. In fact, it doesn't even acknowledge it received the ir command by flashing the rx (or tx?) light like it usually does when working properly. I've also noticed when I reboot the ISY the red error light comes on and stays on for about a minute before turning off. Not sure if this is normal or not, but there is definitely a problem somewhere.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Hello ekapigian, thank you! Rest assured that the problems you see after the upgrade are NOT related to the firmware. This is a guarantee! 1. Communication errors ... can you check and make sure you do not have any devices (nodes in the tree to the left) with green 0101 icons? If you do, disable them and we'll figure out how to deal with them later 2. Please send your Error Log to support@universal-devices.com From what I gather from you, the problem is that ISY has problem communicating with devices, it keeps retrying and thus all other commands go in the queue where they will stay there till each one is processed one at a time. That's why your IR commands do not work either. Looking at your error logs can give us more clues. With kind regards, Michel
ekapigian Posted January 27, 2011 Author Posted January 27, 2011 I sent the info. There were a few devices with green 0101 icons... before ISY lost communication with them completely. Now it just shows a red exclamation point. See my e-mail for further info. Thanks.
Michel Kohanim Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Hello ekapigian, Unfortunately I have not yet received your email. Are you certain you emailed to support@universal-devices.com? With kind regards, Michel
ekapigian Posted January 27, 2011 Author Posted January 27, 2011 I'm almost positive I sent it correctly. Either way, I just resent it again from my work e-mail. In looking at the error log were there were alot of errors related to network connectivity and something about UD Sockets?. The most notorious error codes I saw were -100 and -170001. I tried looking the last one up on the UD website but that code wasn't listed. I think you may be right that the issue is primarily due to ISY having trouble communicating with the devices and is queuing commands until the previous command is complete. When I tried to send an ir command to the ISY late last night, it didn't register at first, and then all of a sudden processed the command about 10-15 seconds later. Let me know if you have trouble getting the e-mail again. Thanks.
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