Power Outage and ISY 26/99 (versions 2.6/1.0)

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello,

 

For ISY 26/99 versions equal to and below 2.6/1.0 respectively, if you have a power failure and if your ISY boots up faster than your router:

 

ISY tries to get an IP address 3 times and then it quits trying and thus leaves ISY IP-Less and therefore not discoverable and communicable. This was done for cases where the user wants to use ISY without a network connection.

 

In 95% of the routers, 3 times is enough time to provide an IP address and everything succeeds. For others, ISY will no longer be on the network. This has been fixed for the next release. In the meantime, and as a work-around, please try using a static IP address for your ISY.

 

Thanks and with kind regards,

Michel

[Mark Sanctuary]

I still keep thinking I might put my structured media panel on UPS backup to keep my network up so Vonage will still work and it would keep all the other devices like my ISY working too.

[MikeB]

Keep in mind that with the ISY-99, power is supplied through the PLM. I doubt the PLM would behave if plugged into a UPS.

 

So, question is - is there a way with the ISY-99 to NOT use the power supplied by the PLM and use the AC adapter plug instead? That way the PLM could be plugged direct into the wall, and the ISY could stay on a battery backup.

 

Of course, I can't think of a current use for the ISY-99 without a powered PLM anyway. But, I can understand why a user might want to keep it running to avoid a reboot during a small power outage.

[Michel Kohanim]

MikeB,

 

Yes, we have a switching power supply - simply use the power supply that came with your 26 or send a request to sales@universal-devices.com for a new one.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Keep in mind that with the ISY-99, power is supplied through the PLM. I doubt the PLM would behave if plugged into a UPS.

 

So, question is - is there a way with the ISY-99 to NOT use the power supplied by the PLM and use the AC adapter plug instead? That way the PLM could be plugged direct into the wall, and the ISY could stay on a battery backup.

 

Of course, I can't think of a current use for the ISY-99 without a powered PLM anyway. But, I can understand why a user might want to keep it running to avoid a reboot during a small power outage.

[yardman 49]

Keep in mind that with the ISY-99, power is supplied through the PLM. I doubt the PLM would behave if plugged into a UPS.

 

So, question is - is there a way with the ISY-99 to NOT use the power supplied by the PLM and use the AC adapter plug instead? That way the PLM could be plugged direct into the wall, and the ISY could stay on a battery backup.

 

Of course, I can't think of a current use for the ISY-99 without a powered PLM anyway. But, I can understand why a user might want to keep it running to avoid a reboot during a small power outage.

 

Hello Michel & Mike:

 

For what it's worth, I found that approach actually caused me a problem.

 

I had my ISY-26 on my UPS, and the PLM plugged directly into the wall. They were both on the same circuit, but the ISY was on the backup.

 

I had to turn that ciruit off to do some work on my home wiring. That meant that the ISY stayed on (due to the UPS), but the PLM went off. The circuit was off for some time (20 minutes?).

 

When the PLM came back on, the communication with the ISY was messed up. If I remember correctly, many of the status readbacks on "My Lighting" were missing. Due to this, some of my programs that depended on devices statuses were not functioning.

 

I had to power cycle the ISY to get it to sync back up with the PLM. It then found the PLM, ran its reboot systemwide query, and everything was good again.

 

Based on that experience, I took the ISY off of the UPS, plugged it directly into the same outlet as the PLM, and the next time I turned that circuit off, the PLM and ISY came up together with no problems.

 

Best wishes,

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Frank,

 

That is quite interesting and something that should not happen. It's possible that ISY tried some of the programs during the time your PLM was unplugged; that could explain some of the problems.

 

Next time - if there's one - instead of rebooting ISY, may I humbly ask you to simply do Query on the Network node?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

Keep in mind that with the ISY-99, power is supplied through the PLM. I doubt the PLM would behave if plugged into a UPS.

 

So, question is - is there a way with the ISY-99 to NOT use the power supplied by the PLM and use the AC adapter plug instead? That way the PLM could be plugged direct into the wall, and the ISY could stay on a battery backup.

 

Of course, I can't think of a current use for the ISY-99 without a powered PLM anyway. But, I can understand why a user might want to keep it running to avoid a reboot during a small power outage.

 

Hello Michel & Mike:

 

For what it's worth, I found that approach actually caused me a problem.

 

I had my ISY-26 on my UPS, and the PLM plugged directly into the wall. They were both on the same circuit, but the ISY was on the backup.

 

I had to turn that ciruit off to do some work on my home wiring. That meant that the ISY stayed on (due to the UPS), but the PLM went off. The circuit was off for some time (20 minutes?).

 

When the PLM came back on, the communication with the ISY was messed up. If I remember correctly, many of the status readbacks on "My Lighting" were missing. Due to this, some of my programs that depended on devices statuses were not functioning.

 

I had to power cycle the ISY to get it to sync back up with the PLM. It then found the PLM, ran its reboot systemwide query, and everything was good again.

 

Based on that experience, I took the ISY off of the UPS, plugged it directly into the same outlet as the PLM, and the next time I turned that circuit off, the PLM and ISY came up together with no problems.

 

Best wishes,

[yardman 49]

Hi Frank,

 

That is quite interesting and something that should not happen. It's possible that ISY tried some of the programs during the time your PLM was unplugged; that could explain some of the problems.

 

Next time - if there's one - instead of rebooting ISY, may I humbly ask you to simply do Query on the Network node?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hello Michel:

 

That's very possible. There may have been one or more programs trying to execute during the time that the PLM was off.

 

Yes, I could have just performed a network query, and if it ever happens again, I will try that. But the problem is that if I had been gone, and the power had gone out, maybe the same problem would have occured. Since I don't use a "3am status query" for the ISY, then my status readbacks would be wrong.

 

That is the reason that I took the ISY off the UPS and put it onto the same outlet as the PLM. At least that way, it should reboot properly.

 

Should this approach work without issues?

 

Thanks

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Frank,

 

Yes, your approach should work without issue unless there's a program that's run in which case a non-operating PLM will cause status errors. And, may I know why you do not have the 3AM Query running?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hi Frank,

 

That is quite interesting and something that should not happen. It's possible that ISY tried some of the programs during the time your PLM was unplugged; that could explain some of the problems.

 

Next time - if there's one - instead of rebooting ISY, may I humbly ask you to simply do Query on the Network node?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hello Michel:

 

That's very possible. There may have been one or more programs trying to execute during the time that the PLM was off.

 

Yes, I could have just performed a network query, and if it ever happens again, I will try that. But the problem is that if I had been gone, and the power had gone out, maybe the same problem would have occured. Since I don't use a "3am status query" for the ISY, then my status readbacks would be wrong.

 

That is the reason that I took the ISY off the UPS and put it onto the same outlet as the PLM. At least that way, it should reboot properly.

 

Should this approach work without issues?

 

Thanks

[yardman 49]

Hello Michel:

 

I lost the 3am query early on, after I had done a factory reset of the unit.

 

In fact, I didn't even know it had existed until recently when I saw someone mention it in the forums. I remember thinking, "What 3 am query"!

 

My reasons for not having a 3 am query:

 

1) In case of a power faiure, the ISY is going to reboot anyway, which will force a query.

 

2) Until SmartHome can supply us with a PLM that will approach 100% reliability, I find that very rarely I may get a device query failure. Of course, requerying the device will find it. But I dislike seeing error messages and red exclamation points when I log on, so I've never re-established the 3am query!

 

 

Best wishes,

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Frank,

 

Got it ... thanks so very much for the answer!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hello Michel:

 

I lost the 3am query early on, after I had done a factory reset of the unit.

 

In fact, I didn't even know it had existed until recently when I saw someone mention it in the forums. I remember thinking, "What 3 am query"!

 

My reasons for not having a 3 am query:

 

1) In case of a power faiure, the ISY is going to reboot anyway, which will force a query.

 

2) Until SmartHome can supply us with a PLM that will approach 100% reliability, I find that very rarely I may get a device query failure. Of course, requerying the device will find it. But I dislike seeing error messages and red exclamation points when I log on, so I've never re-established the 3am query!

 

 

Best wishes,

[tome]

So here we are nearly two years since the last post in this thread and 2.7.8 is in testing. I am curious what the expected behavior now is if I put my ISY on a separate power supply? Does the ISY know when the PLM reports a power outage, or that the PLM is not reachable due to a power outage (or other problem)? Does it stop executing programs in that case? Does it know when the PLM becomes reachable and will it sync the status of devices and resume programs? Is there still a 3am query in the ISY?

 

Thanks,

Tome

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Tome,

 

Since all aspects of ISY require a PLM, putting ISY on a power supply really does not make sense especially since:

1. ISY can keep the time for 6 hours

2. At startup ISY checks an NTP server to synch the time

3. You can use Run at Startup to do a variety of things at start up

 

The 3AM Query is still there.

Currently, ISY will not know if the PLM is not powered.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

So here we are nearly two years since the last post in this thread and 2.7.8 is in testing. I am curious what the expected behavior now is if I put my ISY on a separate power supply? Does the ISY know when the PLM reports a power outage, or that the PLM is not reachable due to a power outage (or other problem)? Does it stop executing programs in that case? Does it know when the PLM becomes reachable and will it sync the status of devices and resume programs? Is there still a 3am query in the ISY?

 

Thanks,

Tome

[slopdog]

I deleted the query program and didn't realize what I was doing at the time. How do i recreate that?

[brad77]

I deleted the query program and didn't realize what I was doing at the time. How do i recreate that?

Here you go:

 

If
       Time is  3:00:00AM
Then
       Set Scene 'My Devices' Query
Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

[slopdog]

Thanks !

[tome]

Hi Tome,

 

Since all aspects of ISY require a PLM, putting ISY on a power supply really does not make sense especially since:

1. ISY can keep the time for 6 hours

2. At startup ISY checks an NTP server to synch the time

3. You can use Run at Startup to do a variety of things at start up

 

Currently, ISY will not know if the PLM is not powered.

 

Hi Michel,

Thanks for the response. I can think of several reasons that one might want to have the ISY run during a power outage and to know the status of the PLM...

1. I will have an ISY at a remote site that has UPS (and generator) for some circuits including my phone system, internet access equipment, and LAN gear. I will remotely monitor the ISY (and other equipment).

2. If I am using Insteon thernostats to control/monitor my HVAC system, which is backed up by generator) and the ISY is unreachable, then so is my HVAC system.

3. I would view it as a feature for the ISY to be able to log power interruption events by being in communication with the ISY.

4. The UDI network module supports running a web server on the ISY. If I was using it for that purpose I would certainly want it on UPS!

 

I think you (UDI) need to think outside your current box on what the ISY is and what it's capabilities are.

 

Thanks for listening!

 

The 3AM Query is still there.

 

Is it under My Programs or is it hidden in the ISY? If the former, I must have deleted it...

 

Tome

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Tome,

 

That makes perfect sense. I am not sure how we can detect power outage but I will surely ask our hardware engineer to see if it's at all possible.

 

The 3 AM Query is right under My Programs. So, you must have deleted it!

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[porscheguy]

Michel (or anyone else):

 

I am considering the ISY-99i and very interested in reliability issues such as in this thread (and others). I have been using X10 and Insteon with a different control program for many years and would like to move to Insteon predominantly and have simpler internet access. But I use my control programs for lighting, security and irrigation aspects that need to be reliable when I am away for long periods. I am concerned with reliability through temporary power failures and temporary lack of internet access (simultaneous or not). I have noted different topics talking about not rebooting properly, freezing, etc. Obviously if power fails or internet access is gone, that is one thing, but it must come up and work properly and be accessible once they are restored without needing local help. What can you say today about the ISY-99i as far as these issues?

 

Thanks

 

dickG

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello dickG,

 

Thanks so very much for your interest. What security system do you have in mind?

 

There are three issues here:

1. Whether or not the system hangs on its own. As you can check the forum, all reports of system hang are beta firmware related with one exception that was fixed immediately. Unlike all other hardware/firmware manufacturers out there, we do NOT believe in watchdog timers (i.e. a counter that check to see if the system is hung and reboots) and thus all our focus has been in making the system reliable to the point that it will never require a reboot

2. Power failure. If there's power failure - and due to the nature of INSTEON - it really does not make sense for ISY to have power while other devices are powerless. As far as what happens after power is restored, 99% is up to you to decide which programs/schedules must be run and/or ignored. The rest of 1% is to handled by ISY to reboot properly and get all resources in synch

3. Losing network/internet access does not at all have an impact on the correct behavior and execution of programs except for those that require Internet access such as WeatherBug. Furthermore, using Dynamic DNS and DHCP reservation, you can almost guarantee that you have access to your ISY remotely as long there's network connectivity

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[porscheguy]

Thanks Mikel:

 

As for my security system, I currently have an Apex Destiny 6100 system with an RS232 interface. I have created some programs that can alert me via texting or email. For the ISY I would like to be able to communicate with it from programs of my own creation so I need to find out how this can be done with the ISY. I will need to look further into this on your forums or on your website.

 

Thanks for the response on reliability.

 

DickG

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi DickG,

 

My pleasure. You will need our Network Module and then an Ethernet to Serial bridge such as Global Cache to communicate with your security system.

 

Unfortunately the Network Module is not bi directional so you cannot get any status feedback from your security system.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[thefunconsultant]

I have a ISY-99 PRO running the Release 2.8.16 firmware. We experienced a power outage last week for several days and since the power came back on I have been unable to get my ISY to run properly. The ISY can not be found across the wireless network, but shows up fine when I use my desktop that is physically wired into the router. Additionally it does not seem to be writing instructions to my dimmer switches correctly (or completely). I have tried restarting the ISY by unplugging it for up to five minutes and then plugging it back in. I have tried restoring the ISY from a back up file, and I have tried unplugging everything and plugging everything back in the order I installed them.

 

So I have two problems:

 

1-The ISY is not discoverable from any computer or device other than the desktop wired into the same router as the ISY

2-While I can control my lighting (on, off, fast on/off, dimmer level) from the hard wired desktop through the router to the ISY , when I write instructions to my dimmer switches the instructions do not get written to the switches. For example I want the light over my kitchen island to come on instantly when the switch is flipped locally, I change the level on the ISY administrative console, it says it writes to the switch, but then when I flip the switch it takes 4 seconds to come up to 100%

 

Any suggestions on how to fix these issues would be appreciated.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello thefunconsultant,

 

1. What URL do you use to access your ISY? Also, are your wired/wireless networks on two different subnets? (or, you can send me an IP address of a computer on the wired network and an IP address from the computer on the wireless network)

2. I think this problem is due to the fact that your switches have their memory wiped out. A simple test: change the on level on the Admin Console, then go to the switch and do an air-gap (take the set button out and then nudge it back in). If this works, then the problem is that the power outage has erased the memory on your switches as well

 

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[thefunconsultant]

Michel –

I access the isy using the "ISY" url in my browser. I went to whatismyipaddress.com to get the IP addresses and this is what I got:

IP address on my laptop (wireless) is 24.13.213.153

IP address on my desktop (wired) is 24.13.213.153 – Same number for both machines

 

I tried pulling out the set button and it seems to have worked to reset the switches to a fast on/off ramp rate (when the power went out they started ramping up slowly). I should also say that all the switches reacted the same after the power outage, and do not seem to take the programming directives.

 

However, I am still having an issue that when I program the ramp rate in the admin console it says it is writing to the switch with no error, but when I use the switch it is not the new setting. I have unplugged the ISY-99 PRO and restarted it, unplugged the PLM, reset the switches but nothing seems to work. Any suggestions?

 

I am not a very technical person, but so far working with the Insteon switches and the ISY 99 PRO has been pretty easy and straight forward but this ramping programming has me confused.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello thefunconsultant,

 

Would you please try using http://www.universal-devices.com/99i/admin.jnlp ... this should find your ISY on the network.

 

http://isy might not work on non-Windows computers.

 

As far as the on level/ramp rate for your switches, if you have older switches, then you MUST reboot your switch after you are done programming it. To reboot (air-gap), what you need to do is to pull out the set button and then just slip it back in (do NOT push and hold it in).

 

With kind regards,

Michel