Insteon Energy Display

[Teken]

This is only indicated on the smarthome advert.

 

 

Encrypted By: Phoenix Security Solutions

[Brian H]

I looked at the original Quick Start Guide posted in the FCC Database for the 2448A2. It does not mention any sending of a temperature change. Just how to change from F to C and Calibration.

 

If you look at the 2448A2 reviews. You will see I gave it one star and returned it because of the ISY99i/ISY994i problems.

 

LeeG The temperature change message is mentioned in the 2448A2 Developers Guide.

Though it is very possible it was not ever implemented and the sales page was not updated.

[LeeG]

Thanks Brian for the info from the Developers Guide.

[Teken]

I looked at the original Quick Start Guide posted in the FCC Database for the 2448A2. It does not mention any sending of a temperature change. Just how to change from F to C and Calibration.

 

If you look at the 2448A2 reviews. You will see I gave it one star and returned it because of the ISY99i/ISY994i problems.

 

LeeG The temperature change message is mentioned in the 2448A2 Developers Guide.

Though it is very possible it was not ever implemented and the sales page was not updated.

 

I gather the easiest thing to do is have the unit added into the ISY data base. Then, heat / cool down the unit and see if it sends off any temperature readings to the ISY?

 

No? 

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Teken,

 

Without going through details, this devices was only created to "display" events and not for querying and sending events. Furthermore, unlike all other INSTEON devices, this specific device acts like one end-point and broadcasts. We spent a lot of time trying to get this device to do something useful above and beyond displaying alas failed and stopped development against it.

 

As far as just putting it on our database, please see above. This device is NOT like any other INSTEON device. It's  primary purpose is to display and not the other way around.

 

With kind regards,

[Teken]

Hi Teken,

 

Without going through details, this devices was only created to "display" events and not for querying and sending events. Furthermore, unlike all other INSTEON devices, this specific device acts like one end-point and broadcasts. We spent a lot of time trying to get this device to do something useful above and beyond displaying alas failed and stopped development against it.

 

As far as just putting it on our database, please see above. This device is NOT like any other INSTEON device. It's  primary purpose is to display and not the other way around.

 

With kind regards,

 

Hello Michel,

 

Lets clarify this single point if you could. Can this device broadcast its temperature per the smarthome advert to a HA Controller?

[LeeG]

Yes it does but I do not see how it would be used.  Here is trace from Energy Display under Powerhome.

 

2014-06-16 16:26:45.578 TX 02 62 0D FC 71 05 4A 84

2014-06-16 16:26:45.640 RX SENTINSTEON=13 AC 99 0D FC 71 05 4A 84 06 

2014-06-16 16:26:45.812 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0D FC 71 13 AC 99 21 4A 00 

 

2014-07-15 17:56:31.578 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C3 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:56:31.718 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04

2014-07-15 17:56:51.984 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:56:52.203 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04

 

2014-07-15 17:57:13.062 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:57:13.281 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:57:14.062 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:57:14.281 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

 

I linked it to the Powerhome PLM, then tapped a button for it to display power information.  A Temp Broadcast (Group 4) is sent each time a button is pressed but that is the only time the Temp Broadcast is sent.  Hard to see a useful scenario that requires a button press. 

[Teken]

 

Yes it does but I do not see how it would be used.  Here is trace from Energy Display under Powerhome.

 

2014-06-16 16:26:45.578 TX 02 62 0D FC 71 05 4A 84

2014-06-16 16:26:45.640 RX SENTINSTEON=13 AC 99 0D FC 71 05 4A 84 06 

2014-06-16 16:26:45.812 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=0D FC 71 13 AC 99 21 4A 00 

 

2014-07-15 17:56:31.578 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C3 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:56:31.718 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04

2014-07-15 17:56:51.984 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:56:52.203 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04

 

2014-07-15 17:57:13.062 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:57:13.281 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:57:14.062 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:57:14.281 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

 

I linked it to the Powerhome PLM, then tapped a button for it to display power information.  A Temp Broadcast (Group 4) is sent each time a button is pressed but that is the only time the Temp Broadcast is sent.  Hard to see a useful scenario that requires a button press. 

 

 

LeeG,

 

Can you heat up the unit and monitor if it does send a broadcast to your powerhome PLM without any button presses. That is the jist of what most of us wanted from this unit (remote temperature sensor).

[LeeG]

I'll do that.   Powerhome was up for more than 30 minutes before I closed out the trace file to have data for the post.

[LeeG]

I let Powerhome sit for some 80 minutes without any additional Energy Display activity.   Then raised the temp from 75 to 84 with a hair dryer and got no additional Energy Display activity.  It does not work the way the sales page describes. 

 

2014-07-15 17:57:13.062 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:57:13.281 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:57:14.062 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 17:57:14.281 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 21:02:54.515 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 21:02:54.734 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 21:03:13.984 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C3 04 04 

2014-07-15 21:03:14.203 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C3 04 04 

2014-07-15 21:03:14.937 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 21:03:15.156 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 21:03:34.953 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 21:03:35.156 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=1A 93 F7 00 00 04 C7 04 04 

2014-07-15 22:23:38.375 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 69 A7 00 00 01 C7 11 01 

2014-07-15 22:23:38.593 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 69 A7 00 00 01 C7 11 01 

2014-07-15 22:24:16.437 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 99 51 00 00 01 C7 11 01 

2014-07-15 22:24:16.796 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 99 51 00 00 01 C7 11 01 

2014-07-15 22:24:17.109 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 99 51 11 01 01 C7 06 00 

2014-07-15 22:24:17.203 RX RECEIVEINSTEONRAW=14 99 51 11 01 01 C7 06 00 

 

The additional interrupts are from tripping two motion sensors during the hair dryer work. 

[Brian H]

I don't think Smarthomes own Houselinc supports it either.

I can't find the 2448A2 Energy Display in the devices.xml file it uses for module parameters.

 

My thoughts are the sales page is incorrect. Along with the early Developers Notes.

[Teken]

I know this discussion is quite old and most of the pertinent information and feed back was received by all parties. I was asked again from other people interested in this device to inquire if low priority could be set aside given the following. The primary reason was back in the day the ISY Series Firmware did not support *STAY AWAKE* it currently does and may address some of the previous issues.

 

Again, as stated above if this device can simply be added into the data base and like other battery operated devices. If it can listen for the incoming change in temp this would be a very nice portable remote temperature probe for Insteon users.

 

Your kind consideration is greatly appreciated as I know lots of resources are spread thin in advancing more pressing features such as 5.XX, Z-Wave, and God forbid the next 995 Series Controller!

 

Ha . . .

 

Developers Notes: http://cache.insteon.com/developer/2448A2dev-042011-en.pdf

 

2448A2 Energy Display Developer Notes Doc Rev 20110406 Device Name: INSTEON Energy Display Sku: 2448A2 DevCat SubCat: 0x09, 0x0D Power Source: 2 AAA Batteries

 

Description: Displays energy information from up to three iMeter Solo's (current watts used as well as cost and energy consumption per month for each device). It can also display energy info provided by a linked PLM. Built-in sensor displays room temperature on device and sends a broadcast to linked PLM every 3 minutes if temp changes.

 

Programming Notes: Group 1: iMeter or PLM (1 device per group. Linking a second device will overwrite the ID in that group) Group 2: iMeter or PLM Group 3: iMeter or PLM Group 4: PLM for temp broadcast Device sends Get iMeter Status 82 00 command to linked iMeters or PLM when Synchronize button is pressed. After last iMeter response is received, device will stay awake for 3 seconds, then go to sleep mode. Stay Awake command (4 minute duration) must be sent within the 3 seconds to allow for programming of settings and links to the device

 

 

Temperature Reporting: Link the energy display group 4 to a PLM. Temperature will be checked every 3 minutes. If it changes more than 1 degree C, a broadcast will be sent out with the temperature (Example below). Energy Display ID: AA BB CC Broadcast: AA BB CC 00 00 04 8F 6E 40 1A 40 hexÆ64 dec, 64 * 0.5 degree C = 32 degree C

 

Sending Energy Data to Display from a PLM: Write a PLM-Energy Display link in group 1, 2, or 3 using 2F 01 01 AA BB CC (for INSTEON ID “AA.BB.CC”, group

 

1) Energy Display will send iMeter Get Status command 82 00 to the linked PLM. Send data from the linked PLM to the Energy Display as in the examples below: PLM Æ 0 watts Æ Energy Display. Send 02 62 AA BB CC 1F 82 00 00 00 00 FA 00 91 00 00 00 00 4C 7D ED 14 PLM Æ 99 watts Æ Energy Display. Send 02 62 AA BB CC 1F 82 00 00 94 00 F7 00 91 00 63 00 00 4C 83 50 9F NOTE: You must calculate the CRC in Data 13 and Data 14.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Teken,

 

We already have this on our requirements with low priority.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

Hi Teken,

 

We already have this on our requirements with low priority.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Michel,

 

That is great to hear and I shall relay the same to those interested in knowing. Much thanks, all of us look forward to seeing this feature released in the future. 

[Grizzy]

Hello Michel,

 

I also look forward to implementation Of the iMeter display on the ISY.

 

Question: Is there currently any support for the energy module "" IMETER SOLO - INSTEON 2423A1 POWER METER (PLUG-IN)""

 

Can the ISY read any data from it currently ?

 

Thank You

Don

[Teken]

Hello Don,

 

The ISY does support the iMeter. It simply shows current watts and total KWH.

 

The only option is to reset the KWH total. It shows up as a node on the device tree.

 

 

Ideals are peaceful - History is violent

[Grizzy]

Hi Teken,

 

I'm confused, Is the ISY reading the module data or the Display Data that also has temperature ?

 

Can the watts and current be placed in variables for program control ?

 

What is your opinion of this using it for relative indications and not a full blown system as you have developed.

 

Does it work with some degree of accuracy, say +/- 100ma

 

Thanks

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Don,

 

ISY works with iMeter Solo. It does not work with Energy Display. Yes you can use those values in programs. Accuracy questions should be directed to SmartHome.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

Hi Teken,

 

I'm confused, Is the ISY reading the module data or the Display Data that also has temperature ?

 

Can the watts and current be placed in variables for program control ?

 

What is your opinion of this using it for relative indications and not a full blown system as you have developed.

 

Does it work with some degree of accuracy, say +/- 100ma

 

Thanks

 

Hello Don,

 

The ISY Series Controller is reading the iMeter Solo and provides current *Watts* & total KWH as seen in this screen shot. The ISY Series Controller at this point in time can not retrieve the the temperature from the Energy Display or dollars consumed.

 

The iMeter only indicates watts and does not offer a means to measure current / amps. I do not believe there is a easy way to translate the watts into a variable like I do with other devices such as the Autelis, Dash Box, etc.

 

I have many of the iMeter / Energy Displays in my home now as my intent in the past was to do exactly what you're asking about. After waiting for many years for development to proceed and move forward.

 

It was apparent to me this device was abandoned and no longer being developed by Smartlabs and UDI. This is why I invested all of my time and resources into the Brultech Green Eye Monitor (GEM). As it would integrate with the ISY Series Controller and also provide extremely accurate global monitoring of all electrical circuits in my home.

 

Absolutely no regrets on investing the money and resources going this route, none.

 

I use the Energy Display as a quick method to see *At a glance* specific circuits in my home with out the need to carry a tablet or fire up a computer system. In this aspect its a great point of use method to see and monitor power and accumulated KWH.

 

Obviously, I have deployed more accurate *Point of Use* methods to measure and capture critical loads which also allows me to graph, chart, and react to said energy use. But that was more a natural transition and for the need for more detailed data.

 

If you do the math for five iMeter Solo's, five Energy Displays, before shipping and tax's ten of these devices equals $350.00.

 

When you consider the base costs of the GEM you're almost 70% there in terms of costs. 

 

Why spend the money on a toy that will never give you the same power, capability, and ongoing development?

 

It doesn't wash out or make financial sense . . .

 

I was very fortunate that the ten devices I have on hand came to me via a major blow out. I was able to purchase all 10 of these devices for $125.XX via on line sales. I would never have invested $350.XX which in today's dollars is $458.27 CDN dollars all before shipping, tax's, and duty.

 

At that price point I am about $75.XX short of a full blown Brultech GEM unit. If your needs are more modest you could have purchased their older ECM-1240 units which monitor 7 channels instead.

 

Even the older and modest ECM-1240 offers the end user more capability then this Insteon toy.

 

Lastly, the iMeter Solo that I have has been able to show accurate readings to 1 watt +/- 1

[Grizzy]

Hi Don,

ISY works with iMeter Solo. It does not work with Energy Display. Yes you can use those values in programs. Accuracy questions should be directed to SmartHome.

With kind regards,

Michel

Thanks Michel,

 

How do I get the value into a program ?

 

Can this value be assigned to a variable ?

 

Thank you

Don

[Teken]

Thanks Michel,

 

How do I get the value into a program ?

 

Can this value be assigned to a variable ?

 

Thank you

Don

 

Hello Don,

 

Please reference this reply from Michel: http://forum.universal-devices.com/topic/16685-imeter-solo-how-to-get-isy-to-calculate-energy-usage/

 

The system currently allows you to select -XXX watts / +XXX watts. You then set a program to react to a power level you deem appropriate. There is no method (currently) to use the KWH value you saw in the screen capture in a variable.

[Grizzy]

Hello Don,

 

The ISY Series Controller is reading the iMeter Solo and provides current *Watts* & total KWH as seen in this screen shot. The ISY Series Controller at this point in time can not retrieve the the temperature from the Energy Display or dollars consumed.

 

The iMeter only indicates watts and does not offer a means to measure current / amps. I do not believe there is a easy way to translate the watts into a variable like I do with other devices such as the Autelis, Dash Box, etc.

 

I have many of the iMeter / Energy Displays in my home now as my intent in the past was to do exactly what you're asking about. After waiting for many years for development to proceed and move forward.

 

It was apparent to me this device was abandoned and no longer being developed by Smartlabs and UDI. This is why I invested all of my time and resources into the Brultech Green Eye Monitor (GEM). As it would integrate with the ISY Series Controller and also provide extremely accurate global monitoring of all electrical circuits in my home.

 

Absolutely no regrets on investing the money and resources going this route, none.

 

I use the Energy Display as a quick method to see *At a glance* specific circuits in my home with out the need to carry a tablet or fire up a computer system. In this aspect its a great point of use method to see and monitor power and accumulated KWH.

 

Obviously, I have deployed more accurate *Point of Use* methods to measure and capture critical loads which also allows me to graph, chart, and react to said energy use. But that was more a natural transition and for the need for more detailed data.

 

If you do the math for five iMeter Solo's, five Energy Displays, before shipping and tax's ten of these devices equals $350.00.

 

When you consider the base costs of the GEM you're almost 70% there in terms of costs. 

 

Why spend the money on a toy that will never give you the same power, capability, and ongoing development?

 

It doesn't wash out or make financial sense . . .

 

I was very fortunate that the ten devices I have on hand came to me via a major blow out. I was able to purchase all 10 of these devices for $125.XX via on line sales. I would never have invested $350.XX which in today's dollars is $458.27 CDN dollars all before shipping, tax's, and duty.

 

At that price point I am about $75.XX short of a full blown Brultech GEM unit. If your needs are more modest you could have purchased their older ECM-1240 units which monitor 7 channels instead.

 

Even the older and modest ECM-1240 offers the end user more capability then this Insteon toy.

 

Lastly, the iMeter Solo that I have has been able to show accurate readings to 1 watt +/- 1

Teken,

 

Thanks for detailed response. Your photo was worth a thousand words.

 

Yes I agree the solo is toy grade and keeping that in mind I was hoping it would suffice for a quick and dirty ( non-critical ) monitor.

I can live with + / - 1 watt, provided it is reliable.

 

I look at GEM frequently and hesitate for a couple reasons. 1) is cost, that can be overcome by the reasons you stated. 2) this is the biggest , running all the wire for the current transformers. ( I'm disabled thus these tasks are not as easy as when I did my first home automation system )

 

I already use current transformers with analog opto 22. Accuracy like .1% ... These are point of use multiple channel nodes connected on a local network, thus minimizing wiring. Each node will also do temperature, voltage, analog or digital, input or output. Disadvantage is RS-422 network ( hopefully the Autelis Bridge will solve this issue ) Another big disadvantage is all the really magnificent display and logging software currently available for GEM.

 

I currently have 6 nodes around my home and out buildings. These consist of both analog and digital I/O. Probably over 120 points. Converting to GEM would require a significant amount of wiring to bring all the current transformers and thermocouple wires back to the GEM / Autelis. I would guess the quality of opto 22 is at minimum equal to that of the GEM so nothing to be gained here.

 

So I'm caught between time generations trying to keep my 25 year old system and use the much improved graphical interfaces and high speed Ethernet of today. Thinking about that ,, In the power plant we upgraded our system twice in 15 years and that was software driven. The hardware to support the software was upgraded, But the field I/O remained unchanged. Hmm never coralated that till now!

 

 

As Always thanks for your time and explanation. I appreciate it as it clears up my confusion and defeniately helps my decision.

 

 

Don

[Teken]

Hello Don,

 

For point of use and visual display the two Insteon devices: iMeter Solo / Energy Display are more than fine for none critical monitoring and viewing.

 

It should be noted one Energy Display can be linked to three iMeter Solo's to render the watts / KWH's. This would save you a considerable amount instead of having dedicated displays for each unit. As indicated the only reason I have five pairs is due to a fantastic on line blow out a number of years ago.

 

They are great for that simple *look & view* when needed.

 

When you're ready down the line you can look forward to the fact Brultech continues to refine and develop their Dash Box (DB) and Greey Eye Monitor (GEM) which interfaces with the ISY Series Controller quite well.

 

Just to teas you a little bit . . .

 

Ha