thruster999 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 I'm poting here because, rather than in the Communication Issues forum, because I'm hoping there is a simple solution for this issue. From the details below I think you'll agree this cannot be a communication issue but is more likely an issue with my ISY-99i. The issue: In Scenes that only include a Motion Sensor as a Controller and a switch (either a dimmer or relay) as a Responder, the ability to Adjust Scenes errors, is broken, and the scene has to be rebuilt manually to correct the issue. Symtoms: The ON and OFF functionality of the scene still works. However, when a program is run to adjust the scene (ie change the ramp rate and light level of the Responder) nothing occurs, no error is reported. and the scene fails to be adjusted. Ultimately, even though no error is reported the light level and ramp rate are not adjusted. And the scene cannot ever be adjusted again. BTW the program adjusts the scene using the Sensor (ie 'Adjust Scene' Bath-Sensor/Bath Potts Ramp Rate 4.5 second') and not the Scene. If I go to the ISY UI, goto to Motion Scene and click on the Sensor (controller), it reports the responder as having a 9min ramp rate and a 0% light level. This happens every time this issue occurs, regardless of the different motion scenes. Normally I can adjust the scene manually by clicking on the motion sensor Controller in the scene and manually adjust the ramp rate or light level of the Responder. Normally, after the manual adjustment, you can see the Responder being written to and everything works perfect. However, after this issue occurs where the links are lost and the Controller reports 9min/0%, and I manually adjust the ramp rate or light level, one of two errors occur: 1) Failed Request 2) Error - Link cannot be found. Attempted fixes and solution 1) I reboot ISY. This does not correct the Issue. 2) I "Restore Device", separately, the Motion Sensor and the Responder. This also does not fix the issue. 3) I use the drop down menu option 'Restore Link between "Responder" and "Controller". This appears to do something in that the Responder and Controller are being written to however after this occurs the issue still persists. BTW this is a pain in the A$$ because you have to press the set button on the motion sensor to put it into setup mode. 4) I rebuild the link by removing the Controller and Responder from the Scene, "Restore" each device, then setup the scene again with the Motion Sensor as the Controller and the switch as the Responder - This is the only thing I found to work. This is also a pain in the A$$ because you again have to manually put the Sensor into setup mode. Why do I beleive this is an ISY issue and not an INSTEON issue? 1) The error messages I describe above. 2) The ON/OFF functionality still works - IOW that link is still there even after this issue has occured and even when the ISY is turned off. 3) The issue seems to occur only after a program runs to adjust the scene. An attempt is made to write to the Responder and then you can't adjust the scene anymore until the scene is rebuilt. 4) This cannot be a communication issue because it's random. This does not occur repeatedly on any single scene but rather has occurred on most of my motion scenes - it happens overall once per week. Also, 5) The issue that occured that prompted this diatribe was my Onsuite motion scene. There is a Dual Band Switch literally 3 feet away from the Sensor. Another Dual Band Switch 12 feet away in the adjoining closet and two additional access points within 40 feet, plus two additional Dual Band Switches within 40 feet all located on the same floor. 6) Motion Scenes that do not have the Motion Sensor as a Controller (ON OFF run by programs/ Ramp Rate and Light levels adjusted by programs in the Scene rather than motion sensor) this issue has never occured. BUT this is not a preferable setup because program run ON/OFF is slow compared to when using the Motion Sensor to control ON/OFF. So ... Am I correct? Is this a known ISY issue? Or can I do anything to prevent this issue? Thanks very much in advance Link to comment
LeeG Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 thruster999 I ran that example on 3.1.1 with success. The Responder Ramp Rate was changed correctly by the Program with an Adjust Scene where the Motion Sensor Sensor node is the In Scene value and an ICON Dimmer is the Set device. What ISY image are you running? Can you run Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with Device Communications Events selected and run Program that adjusts the responder On Level or Ramp Rate. Lee EDIT: note that the Adjust Scene which changes the responder On Level or Ramp Rate is not changing anything in the Motion Sensor so the Dual Band device locations do not matter. The On Level and Ramp Rate are values stored in the responder link record. If this is an issue updating a device it is the responder switch that is in question. EDIT2: the In Scene field identifies the Controller which really identifies the link record in the responder to update. Selecting the Motion Sensor Sensor node indicates the link record in the switch associated with Group 1 Motion Sensor device is updated. Selecting the Scene name in the In Scene field identifies the link record in the responder associated with the ISY PLM. Link to comment
thruster999 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hi LeeG I might of made it sound as if this happens often on the same device. It doesn't. This issue occurs once per week, but with different random scenes that have a motion sensor as a Controller. I have 11 scenes with Motion Sensors as the Controller. So today it was my on-suite scene but last week it was my Den and the week before that my Laundry Room. This is the primary reason I don't think its this specific Responder. To answer your questions (btw thanks for your help!) I'm currently using 3.1.1. BUT this issue has been occurring since I purchased my ISY-99i. With so many Motion Sensors now, it's getting onerous rebuilding at least one scene per week. I also want to set up a similar system for my parents and there's no way I can manage this remotely with an issue that demands a manual fix. I'm hoping this is an issue where its info stored with the ISY - and therefore is a bug that can be fixed. Anyway, It's happened with every firmware version I've used. But recently I've noticed the issue only occurs with scenes that have a Motion Sensor as a Controller AND where I adjust scenes (with programs) via the Sensor rather than the Scene. The Switch in question is in the same gang box as a Dual Band Switch and is also 12 feet away from the adjoining closet dual band dimmer - and two additional access points within 40 feet, plus two additional Dual Band Switches within 40 feet all located on the same floor. On this floor I have 3 dual band dimmers and 2 plug in access points and the floor is 1450 sq ft. Since I rebuilt the scene this morning, and ran the diagnostic tools - it runs perfectly (and very quickly) with no errors. In fact all of the scenes do. But for whatever reason, the program that adjusts my on-suite motion scene to a 25% light level / 4.5 second ramp rate (for bedtime so when my wife has to get up and take a pee in the middle of the night ) it crapped out. The on/off continued to work but the scene wasn't adjusted. A program runs in the morning to setup the scene back to 100% light level, it ran when it was supposed to, but the scene wasn't adjusted. So I manually went to adjust them and got the error messages I reported earlier. If I were to guess (dangerous I know) the link between the Responder in the scene is lost and is gone until rebuilt. Thanks Link to comment
LeeG Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 thruster999 Thanks for the additional information. With the Motion Sensor motion turning On/Off the switch the link in the switch must be intact (despite the error message text). An Insteon switch will not respond unless it has a responder link record that matches the Controller address and Group number. The errors may be a reflection of the ISY configuration information being incorrect rather than the actual switch itself. I had assumed the condition where the link was not being updated still existed (bad thing to do, assume). Next time it happens run a Tools | Diagnostics | Show Device Links Table. This will give us an accurate image of what is in the switch. A Compare (when the Show completes) after that will show what is in the switch versus what the ISY thinks should be there. Also the Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer with Device communications events selected run when the Program is run to update the link record (Adjust Scene) will show what the ISY actually did in response to the Program Adjust Scene statement. I’m thinking something is blocking the writes to the switch or the ISY is not trying to write the link updates because the configuration information in the ISY is corrupted. Check if there is an Icon to the left of the switch node in the My Lighting tree indicating writes are pending for some reason (next time if fails). The fact the situation has occurred over different ISY images and various devices has the earmarks of a powerline problem but the symptoms do not sync up with that type of failure. A failure to communication with a device usually results in an Icon to the left of the device node and can be cleared with a Query. Also the collection of symptoms seem to indicate a configuration data issue rather than a device communication problem. Perhaps some of the Program initiated configuration updates are creating a conflict between themselves. The next set of diagnostic information should point to the nature of the problem even if it does not provide the immediate solution. Lee Link to comment
thruster999 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 Hi LeeG Thanks again for your help! Well luckily (actually unluckily) I've experirnced another failure tonight. My Pool Table Room - It has not experienced this issue since December. So it's been a while for this one. All the same issues as with my On-suite Motion Scene. The light level is at 0% and the ramp rate is displayed as 9min. ON/OFF still works but the scene can't be adjusted. To answer your first question there was an icon beside the failed switch. A small green arrow with binary code in it. I did a Query and the icon was cleared after the Query was complete. I then went to manually adjust the Scenes light level via the Sensor Scene and received the following error message - same as before. Failed reading device link (SF Pool Table) [-200000/-5] Subscriber didn't reply to event:1 I made several attempts and either got the above message or 'Failed Request' and the switch does not adjust. BTW the devices in the Motion Scene are called and addressed: SF Pool Table AP 18.03.EF SF Pool Table-Sensor 13.F8.CC (Second Floor Pool Table Room) The Responder is a Dual Band Dimmer. My Second floor, 1500 sq ft, has 2 dual band dimmers and an additional 2 access points installed. 2 on each phase. Anyway it appears to have failed when a program that runs at 10:00PM adjusts the dimmers light level and ramp rate via an "Adjust Scene" via the Motion Sensor (just like the earlier issue). I ran the tests you said I should run while the scene was still broken and this is what I got: The Event Log Post Fail: Thu 03/31/2011 10:56:28 PM : [ Time] 22:56:32 0(0) Thu 03/31/2011 10:56:28 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 18.03.EF 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Thu 03/31/2011 10:56:29 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.03.EF 13.22.8F 2B CA 66 (66) Thu 03/31/2011 10:56:29 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][18.03.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Thu 03/31/2011 10:57:03 PM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices Thu 03/31/2011 10:57:03 PM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices Thu 03/31/2011 10:57:03 PM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices Thu 03/31/2011 10:57:03 PM : [All ] Writing 0 bytes to devices The Device Links Table Post Fail Device Links Table : SF Pool Table AP / 18 3 EF 1 0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FF0 : A2 01 13.F8.CC FF 1F 00 0FE8 : A2 02 11.AC.0D FF 1F 00 0FE0 : A2 19 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FD8 : A2 1A 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FD0 : A2 26 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FC8 : E2 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 01 0FC0 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 11.AC.0D is a RemoteLinc and I'm assuming that 13.22.8F is my PLM because I don't have any devices with that address in my device list. I tried to run Compare (twice) but the UI hung. So I rebuilt the scene - removed both devices from the scene, "Restore"d them, and put them back in. I ran the program again and it worked perfect. Here's the log from the event viewer after running the same program but this time after I did the re-build. The Event Log Post Re-build Fri 04/01/2011 12:51:28 AM : [ Time] 00:51:29 1(0) Fri 04/01/2011 12:51:29 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 18.03.EF 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 04/01/2011 12:51:29 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.03.EF 13.22.8F 2B E6 00 (00) Fri 04/01/2011 12:51:29 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][18.03.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:18 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Link 2 : 0FE8 [A20113F8CC4C1A00] Saving [............1A..] Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:18 AM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:18 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'SF Pool Table AP' Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:18 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Link 2 : 0FE8 [A20113F8CC4C1A00] Writing [............1A..] Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:18 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 18.03.EF 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:18 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.03.EF 13.22.8F 2B 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:18 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][18.03.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:18 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 18.03.EF 0F 2B EE 06 PEEK (EE) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:19 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.03.EF 13.22.8F 2B 2B 1A PEEK (1A) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:19 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][18.03.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:19 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Link 2 : 0FE8 [A20113F8CC4C1A00] Saving [..........4C....] Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:19 AM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:19 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'SF Pool Table AP' Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:19 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Link 2 : 0FE8 [A20113F8CC4C1A00] Writing [..........4C....] Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:19 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 18.03.EF 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:19 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.03.EF 13.22.8F 2B 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:19 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][18.03.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:19 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 18.03.EF 0F 2B ED 06 PEEK (ED) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:20 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.03.EF 13.22.8F 2B 2B 4C PEEK (4C) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:20 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][18.03.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:20 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [A21913228F4C1A00] Saving [............1A..] Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:20 AM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:20 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'SF Pool Table AP' Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:20 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [A21913228F4C1A00] Writing [............1A..] Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:20 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 18.03.EF 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:20 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.03.EF 13.22.8F 2B 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:20 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][18.03.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:20 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 18.03.EF 0F 2B F6 06 PEEK (F6) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:21 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.03.EF 13.22.8F 2B 2B 1A PEEK (1A) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:21 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][18.03.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:21 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [A21913228F4C1A00] Saving [..........4C....] Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:21 AM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:21 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'SF Pool Table AP' Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:21 AM : [18 3 EF 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [A21913228F4C1A00] Writing [..........4C....] Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:21 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 18.03.EF 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:21 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.03.EF 13.22.8F 2B 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:21 AM : [standard-Direct Ack][18.03.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:21 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 18.03.EF 0F 2B F5 06 PEEK (F5) Fri 04/01/2011 12:52:22 AM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 18.03.EF 13.22.8F 2B 2B 4C PEEK (4C) The Device Links Post Re-build 0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FF0 : A2 19 13.22.8F 4C 1A 00 0FE8 : A2 01 13.F8.CC 4C 1A 00 0FE0 : A2 1A 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FD8 : A2 26 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FD0 : A2 02 11.AC.0D FF 1F 00 0FC8 : 00 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 01 I noticed the last line of all 00's is not there this time And the Compare worked this time: 0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FF0 : A2 19 13.22.8F 4C 1A 00 0FE8 : A2 01 13.F8.CC 4C 1A 00 0FE0 : A2 1A 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FD8 : A2 26 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FD0 : A2 02 11.AC.0D FF 1F 00 Reported all Identical except the last line was ignored (the PLM I think). Thanks again LeeG! Link to comment
LeeG Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 thruster999 I’ll go through all the great data. Thanks A quick question, is “SF Pool Table AP 18.03.EF t†an Access Point or the dual band dimmer? Lee Link to comment
LeeG Posted April 1, 2011 Share Posted April 1, 2011 thruster999 Some results and some open issues. First, the device link database initially displayed at the beginning of the last post looks correct except for the fact that the On Level and Ramp Rate changes made by the Program Adjust Scene have not been made. This explains why the dimmer is responding to On/Off commands from the motion sensor at full On and at the fastest ramp rate as that is what the link record indicates should happen. The green Icon noted in the last post indicates updates are pending for the dimmer. Usually indicates an attempt to talk to the device at some point failed so the updates are queued until the device can be accessed. The “Event Log Post fail:â€, is that a trace of the Program to Adjust Scene to the lower On Level and slower Ramp Rate? If so then nothing was written to the dimmer. The writing 0 bytes messages mean the ISY does not have changes to make to the device. First of the unknown! The Show Device Links Table after the recovery process is the next unknown! The “0FC8: E2 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 00†displayed in the last post, pre recovery process , is missing in the post recovery process Show Device Links Table. The fact that the Compare did not indicate it is missing is not good. It means the ISY does not think it should be present. This link record is used by the dimmer to send status updates to the ISY PLM. Without it the ISY will not know if the dimmer is turned On or Off at the dimmer. The good news is the post recovery process Event Log does show the expected On Level and Ramp Rate changes to the link records being written to the dimmer. Although things appear to be working post recovery process there are problems. Suggest running the Show Device Links Table again and see if the “E2 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 00†link record displays. If not the device link database was not recovered successfully. The lack of attempts to actually write the Adjust Scene values pre recovery process, the Compare that would not work before the recovery process, the missing link record post recovery process and the fact the Compare does not indicate it missing, are all suggestive of a problem with the configuration data now. With the green Icon present at the beginning of all this I’m concerned that there is an intermittent communication problem that backed up a bunch of Adjust Scene updates which may have lead to the corruption of configuration data. Try a Restore Device for the dimmer and see if the missing “E2 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 00†is restored. If this cannot be recovered the only way I know to fix it is to Delete the device and add it back. Of course this is going to impact Scenes and Programs. You could just ignore the missing link record and not have the ISY know when the dimmer is operated manually. Ignoring things like this have a habit of coming back to bite you later on. Lee Link to comment
thruster999 Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 Hello Lee You're correct on all counts. The SF Pool Table AP is a Dual Band Dimmer and is the Responder. And the program that is run reduces the Light Level from 100% to 30%. The Dimmer was set by another program to 100%, successfully, at Sunset a number of hours earlier. And also, because the new light level didn't take, the earlier settings of 100% light level were still the effect with the current ON/OFF. This afternoon I ran the Device Link Table again. This is what I got: 0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FF0 : E2 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 01 0FE8 : A2 19 13.22.8F 00 1F 00 0FE0 : A2 01 13.F8.CC 00 1F 00 0FD8 : A2 1A 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FD0 : A2 26 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FC8 : A2 02 11.AC.0D FF 1F 00 0FC0 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 Then I ran the Compare [identical] 0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 [identical] 0FF0 : E2 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 01 [identical] 0FE8 : A2 19 13.22.8F 00 1F 00 [identical] 0FE0 : A2 01 13.F8.CC 00 1F 00 [identical] 0FD8 : A2 1A 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 [identical] 0FD0 : A2 26 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 [identical] 0FC8 : A2 02 11.AC.0D FF 1F 00 [ignore] 0FC0 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 So today it's running perfectly - it's already done a few scene adjustments today with no issues. In fact today ALL of my sensor based scenes are having no issues (as I mentioned earlier, this happens once a week with random sensor scenes). So, it looks likes, as with last nights post re-build links data, the PLM is there, as also the sensor and remotelinc. So wouldn't this suggest that somehow the ISY data is corrupting? As always, thanks again Lee Link to comment
thruster999 Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share Posted April 8, 2011 Hi Lee and the ISY team well, this is my weekly device link issue with scenes that have a motion sensor. This time it's with my Laundry room. Again for whatever reason the ISY link between the sensor and the responder is lost or corrupted. As with the last two cases I posted: I get the little green icon next to the responder but cannot manually write updates to the device. When I manually try to adjust the scene I get the following error message: "Failed writing device link (Laundry-Sensor) [-200000/-51] The Scene still works as far as ON/OFF goes however the ramp rate and brightness levels cannot be adjusted In order to get the scene to work again I have to completelty, and manually rebuild the scene with the motion sensor again. IOW the issue is identical to the other two examples I provided earlier. This is the event table I ran after the issue occurred: The Controller is a motion sensor with the address 13 ED 96 The First responder is a regualar dimmer 12 53 A8 - this device did not experience the issue The Second Responder is a Dual Band Dimmer 17 F3 EF 1 (it failed to be changed) Fri 04/08/2011 01:06:17 PM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 04/08/2011 01:06:17 PM : [12 53 A8 1 ] Link 1 : 0FF0 [A20113ED96001A00] Writing [..........00....] Fri 04/08/2011 01:06:21 PM : [ 13 EF 5A 1] DON 1 This is what I got when I ran the Device Links Table for the device that failed 0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FF0 : A2 01 13.EF.5A 51 0A 00 0FE8 : A2 14 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FE0 : A2 3B 13.22.8F 51 0A 00 0FD8 : 00 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 01 This is when I ran Compare [identical] 0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Hello thruster999, ISY links and device links comparison shows that they are identical. You can ignore the last record. I know it's difficult, but when you get the 01010 icons, do you put your Motion Sensor in programming mode before trying Write pending updates? Also, do you have any programs that try to change the on level/ramp rate for the responders in that scene based on certain conditions (such as time of day)? With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
LeeG Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 thruster999, I do not know why but it is the same problem as before. The E201..... Controller record is missing from both the responder device and the ISY database since the Compare does not show it as missing. Without that E201.... link record the responder cannot send manual status changes. After completing the recovery process you will find that there is an E201.... link record and the ISY will identify it as Identical which means the ISY now thinks that record should exist. Lee EDIT: I cleaned up the answer regarding where the Controller link record was missing. I noted it was missing from the motion sensor when I first did this post when if fact it is the responder that is missing the Controller record. Link to comment
thruster999 Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 Hello Lee and Michel Thank you very much for your help Just to clarify Michel - this scene has two Responders. And only one of the links was blown away. When I went to restore the device, in my last description, it wasn't the Controller with the issue, it was the Dual Band Dimmer Responder. When I had to rebuild the scene I'm forced to do it manually (by pressing the set button on the Sensor) by removing the Controller and Responders from the scene and then re-adding them. Huge pain in the a$$ doing this weekly. Also, it is a Program that is adjusting the brightness level on the Responders based on the status of DUSK/DAWN on the Controller - Motion Sensor. Anyway, I've run the tests again (below) and as you can see all the links are there again. My question was why? Why are these links to Controllers that are to Motion Sensors blown away by my ISY? If there is an issue writing to the responder then why not just abandon the write instead of blowing the link away? btw I have 3 Dual Band Dimmers and 2 Access points on this floor including the Dual Band Dimmer that had the issue in the data I've provided. Again, thanks very much for the help guys I ran a program that adjusts the brightness level and ramp rate of the two responders: Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:20 PM : [ Time] 23:47:19 0(0) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:20 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.53.A8 0F 19 00 06 LTSREQ (LIGHT) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:20 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.53.A8 13.22.8F 2B 3A 00 (00) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:20 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.53.A8-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:46 PM : [12 53 A8 1 ] Link 4 : 0FD8 [A20113ED96001A00] Saving [............1A..] Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:46 PM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:46 PM : [12 53 A8 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'Laundry' Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:46 PM : [12 53 A8 1 ] Link 4 : 0FD8 [A20113ED96001A00] Writing [............1A..] Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:46 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.53.A8 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:47 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.53.A8 13.22.8F 2B 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:47 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.53.A8-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:47 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.53.A8 0F 2B DE 06 PEEK (DE) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:47 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.53.A8 13.22.8F 2B 2B 1F PEEK (1F) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:47 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.53.A8-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:47 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.53.A8 0F 29 1A 06 POKE (1A) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:47 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.53.A8 13.22.8F 2B 29 1A POKE (1A) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:47 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.53.A8-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:48 PM : [12 53 A8 1 ] Link 4 : 0FD8 [A20113ED96591A00] Saving [..........59....] Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:48 PM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:48 PM : [12 53 A8 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'Laundry' Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:48 PM : [12 53 A8 1 ] Link 4 : 0FD8 [A20113ED96591A00] Writing [..........59....] Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:48 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.53.A8 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:48 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.53.A8 13.22.8F 27 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:48 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.53.A8-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=1 Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:48 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.53.A8 0F 2B DD 06 PEEK (DD) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:48 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.53.A8 13.22.8F 2B 2B 00 PEEK (00) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:49 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.53.A8-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:49 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 12.53.A8 0F 29 59 06 POKE (59) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:49 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 12.53.A8 13.22.8F 2B 29 59 POKE (59) Fri 04/08/2011 11:47:49 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][12.53.A8-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [17 F3 EF 1 ] Link 4 : 0FD8 [A20113ED96001A00] Saving [............1A..] Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [17 F3 EF 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'Laundry Entrance AP' Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [17 F3 EF 1 ] Link 4 : 0FD8 [A20113ED96001A00] Writing [............1A..] Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 17.F3.EF 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 17.F3.EF 13.22.8F 2B 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][17.F3.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 17.F3.EF 0F 2B DE 06 PEEK (DE) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 17.F3.EF 13.22.8F 2B 2B 1F PEEK (1F) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][17.F3.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:47 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 17.F3.EF 0F 29 1A 06 POKE (1A) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:48 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 17.F3.EF 13.22.8F 2B 29 1A POKE (1A) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:48 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][17.F3.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [17 F3 EF 1 ] Link 4 : 0FD8 [A20113ED964C1A00] Saving [..........4C....] Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [All ] Writing 1 bytes to devices Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [17 F3 EF 1 ] Using engine version i1 for 'Laundry Entrance AP' Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [17 F3 EF 1 ] Link 4 : 0FD8 [A20113ED964C1A00] Writing [..........4C....] Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 17.F3.EF 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 17.F3.EF 13.22.8F 2B 28 0F SET-MSB(0F) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][17.F3.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 17.F3.EF 0F 2B DD 06 PEEK (DD) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 17.F3.EF 13.22.8F 2B 2B 00 PEEK (00) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][17.F3.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 17.F3.EF 0F 29 4C 06 POKE (4C) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [iNST-SRX ] 02 50 17.F3.EF 13.22.8F 2B 29 4C POKE (4C) Fri 04/08/2011 11:48:49 PM : [standard-Direct Ack][17.F3.EF-->ISY/PLM Group=0] Max Hops=3, Hops Left=2 Device Link Table and Compare of the Responder that had issues but after the re-build: 0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FF0 : E2 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 01 0FE8 : A2 11 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FE0 : A2 2B 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FD8 : A2 01 13.ED.96 4C 1A 00 0FD0 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 [identical]0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 [identical]0FF0 : E2 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 01 [identical]0FE8 : A2 11 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 [identical]0FE0 : A2 2B 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 [identical]0FD8 : A2 01 13.ED.96 4C 1A 00 [identical]0FD0 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 Link to comment
LeeG Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 thruster999, There is something else very strange here. The first link table below is from the device at the time of failure. It has a responder link for device 13:ED:5A This is what I got when I ran the Device Links table for the device that failed 0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FF0 : A2 01 13.EF.5A 51 0A 00 0FE8 : A2 14 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FE0 : A2 3B 13.22.8F 51 0A 00 0FD8 : 00 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 01 After the recovery the Device Link Table now has a responder link for device 13:ED:86. Is a different motion sensor being used to control the responder after the recovery than before? Was a configuration change made somewhere along the line that changed which motion sensor used this device as a responder? 0FF8 : A2 00 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FF0 : E2 01 13.22.8F FF 1F 01 0FE8 : A2 11 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FE0 : A2 2B 13.22.8F FF 1F 00 0FD8 : A2 01 13.ED.96 4C 1A 00 0FD0 : 00 00 00.00.00 00 00 00 Is there some other application involved in your installation besides the ISY that could be manipulating the link records? Since the ISY does not write the device address when updating the responder On Level and Ramp Rate it suggests something else is involved here? Link to comment
thruster999 Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share Posted April 9, 2011 Wow! Great catch The first address, 13.EF.5A, is my Dining Room Sensor which is used in a different motion scene altogether. 13.ED.96 is the correct address for the correct sensor, my laundry room sensor. This reminds me of an earlier post I made a few months ago where I described spontaneous linking that was being done - ie all of a sudden my hallway sensor would trigger on my dining room lights (and hallway lights) when I never linked them etc. This issue was fixed with new firmware releases. Anyway, to answer your question the only system I have is the ISY-99i. I don't have anything else at all that would be modifying devices or scenes. I've attached (below) the only ISY Programs that adjust my Laundry motion scene - remember there are two responders. If Program 'VAR Breakfast' is True And Program 'VAR Sunlight in Laundry' is False Then Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' Query Wait 1 minute (Random) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' 4.5 Sec (Ramp Rate) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' 100% (On Level) Wait 1 minute (Random) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry Entrance AP' 4.5 Sec (Ramp Rate) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry Entrance AP' 70% (On Level) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') ++++++++++++++++++++++++ If Program 'VAR Breakfast' is False And Program 'VAR Night Time' is False And Program 'VAR Sunlight in Laundry' is False Then Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' Query Wait 1 minute (Random) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' 4.5 Sec (Ramp Rate) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' 100% (On Level) Wait 1 minute (Random) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry Entrance AP' 0% (On Level) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') ++++++++++++++++++++++++ If Program 'VAR Breakfast' is False And Program 'VAR Night Time' is False And Program 'VAR Sunlight in Laundry' is True Then Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' Query Wait 1 minute (Random) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' 0% (On Level) Wait 1 minute (Random) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry Entrance AP' 0% (On Level) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') ++++++++++++++++++++++++ If Program 'VAR Night Time' is True And Program 'VAR Late Evening' is False Then Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' Query Wait 1 minute (Random) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' 0.1 Sec (Ramp Rate) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' 100% (On Level) Wait 1 minute (Random) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry Entrance AP' 0.1 Sec (Ramp Rate) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry Entrance AP' 100% (On Level) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') ++++++++++++++++++++++++ If Program 'VAR Late Evening' is True Then Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' Query Wait 1 minute (Random) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' 4.5 Sec (Ramp Rate) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry' 35% (On Level) Wait 1 minute In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry Entrance AP' 4.5 Sec (Ramp Rate) In Scene '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry-Sensor' Set '01.MF.Den.Front / Laundry Entrance AP' 30% (On Level) Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Link to comment
thruster999 Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 Hey guys Any word about this issue? Have you been able to replicate it? I'm still having to restore a set of links at least once a week and its getting to be very tiresome . I believe the only things that might not be typical about my setup is that I have quite a few scenes with a motion sensor as a controller and that I modify these scenes (brightness level) 3 or 4 times throughout the day - Actually I'm only assuming that this is not typical. Thanks in advance. Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Hello thruster999, No we have not ... but, do you have any thermostats in your system? (very important question) There have been reports of motion sensors losing their links but they are quite isolated and I am not aware of any SmartHome activities in this respect. There are also reports of devices (such as KPLs/SWLs) losing their links after power outage. I do not think this is related since, in your case, we are dealing with battery operated devices. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
thruster999 Posted May 22, 2011 Author Share Posted May 22, 2011 Hi Michel Yes I do. I have 4 Thermostats. 2 1900s and 2 1800s The 2 1900s are used to to set and track ambient heat. One on my first floor and one on the second floor. The 2 1800s are used for infloor heating. This is important because both of these each use a remote battery operated heat sensor to track the heat on my floors. btw I have never experienced any issues with my thermostats Thanks Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hello thruster999, Thanks so very much. Can you tell me whether or not these are V2 or V1 thermostats? V2 thermostats have 4 nodes representing each. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
thruster999 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 They are all V2 Thanks Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Hello thuster999, Thanks so very much. I am going to forward this post to our SmartHome contact to see if they have any information. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
thruster999 Posted May 24, 2011 Author Share Posted May 24, 2011 Hi Michel A couple of things I thought were relevant I've never had any issues (programs, setting etc) with my thermostats. The only issue has been with the lost links in the motion scenes. Today I restored my ISY with a backup I made a few weeks ago. After I did that, all of the motion scenes with the issues I've been describing were restored to the original state and working properly. To confirm this I'll try it again when the issue occurs again and report back to you. Thanks Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Hello thruster999, Thanks so very much for the detailed info. Yes, please do keep us posted. I have already contact SmartHome and hopefully we'll hear back from them soon. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
Michel Kohanim Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hello thruster999, Just got this email from SmartHome: "I have not heard of motion sensors losing links, but there have been reports with KPLs. A motion sensor failing to turn on a responder might not be the motion sensor's fault. It could be a KPL failing to respond." When this happens next time, would you be kind enough to restore only your KPLs and not the sensor? This would let us know where the problem is: the sensor or the KPL. With kind regards, Michel Link to comment
thruster999 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 when you say "restore" do you mean just to run *restore device* or remove the KPL altogether and then add it back to the ISY and the scene? Thanks Link to comment
LeeG Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Smarthome is looking for the results of a Restore Device only. They want to know if the links in the KeypadLinc have been compromised. Link to comment
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