Synchronized Buttons

[Mark Sanctuary]

How does the Synchronized Buttons work?

 

I have two buttons A and B on my keypadlinc that is "All On" and "All Off"; how do configure these buttons to synchronize this keypadlinc's load?

[Michel Kohanim]

Mark,

 

Very good question.

 

Synchronized buttons means that two ore more buttons in the same Synchronized groups follow each other: if you turn one on, all others will turn on as well and same for off. Unfotunately, you cannot use this function with combination of toggle-mode because when the synchronization turns an LED on then the state does not change regardless of the toggle mode.

 

Of course, you already know first of all, you cannot "link" (put them in the same scene) two buttons of the same KPL with one trying to be a controller for the next one.

 

So, I think what you would want to do is combine A/B into All On/Off and create a scene for that. Then you can use Synchronized buttons to turn on the load (since you cannot put them in the same scene).

 

I hope this answers your question,

With regards,

 

 

How does the Synchronized Buttons work?

 

I have two buttons A and B on my keypadlinc that is "All On" and "All Off"; how do configure these buttons to synchronize this keypadlinc's load?

[Mark Sanctuary]

Got it...it is the feature that toggles the LED in sync with the load because the button never really takes a on status it’s always off.

 

So if I want to do separate "All On" and "All Off" I will have to just use a trigger to get control of the load or use the undocumented keypadinc linking the load to the non-load button trick.

[sfhutchi]

I have separate buttons for 'All On' and 'All Off'. I have these set as 'non-toggle'. Basically they are two different scenes that I call. I have these buttons on more than one keypadlinc. Since I can't control the loads on these KPL's, I also have a trigger that looks for the 'All Off' button press (for example). This trigger then turns off all the KPL loads. Not ideal, but it works well.

 

I would like to know more about this 'undocumented' feature that you mention.

[Mark Sanctuary]

Well if you call Smarthome on the phone they will let you know that you can do a link between a non-load button and load button, but it has to be performed after you create the complete scene or it may not work. I will use the "A" button for the rest of the post but this can be done for any of the non-load buttons.

 

It’s the typical hold the one of the "A" non-load button for 10 sec then hold the load button until it blinks the load. It can only be done locally from the keypadlinc. It has to be in non-toggle mode because the load only does what the LED is indicating for that button, so if the "A" LED is on the load will turn on and if the "A" LED is off on that button the load will turn off. Also the load-level will be the same for all "on" non-load buttons it is linked to so non-link buttons are only storing the link and not the level.

 

Smarthome does not support it because it was never fully developed/tested so hence not documented, but they will instruct you over the phone if you ask enough. It is most likely somewhere in the Smarthome forum too. I think many users got it to work with some trial and error but your mileage may vary. Who knows maybe they have added it to the manual for the keypadlinc but I have not looked in a long time.

[Mark Sanctuary]

Oh yeah...the trigger idea is what I am also playing with, thanks for the idea.

[sfhutchi]

Thanks for the pointer Mark. I may try that some time, but since I can't set this up through ISY or anything else for that matter, it would be 'un documented' on my network and likely over-written at some point. Good to know though. Possibly Smarthome can get this resolved at some point in the future. ... Or maybe Universal Devices can come up with a reversed engineering solution to mimick this work-around.

[Sub-Routine]

Doesn't PowerHome do this by making sure the last link written to a scene in the KPL is always the button to load link (if one exists)?

[Mark Sanctuary]

Possibly Smarthome can get this resolved at some point in the future. ...

Back when smarthome launched the keypadlincs they said they would be doing a newer firmware version of the keypadlinc with all buttons acting as full Insteon nodes so they could act just like any other linkable node but I don't think they have ever release it.

[Mark Sanctuary]

Doesn't PowerHome do this by making sure the last link written to a scene in the KPL is always the button to load link (if one exists)?

I have not used powerhome, I always used Houselinc, so all I could say is that sounds logical.

[sfhutchi]

Michel,

 

Could ISY handle this same 'work-around'?

[Michel Kohanim]

Rand,

 

You are, as always, 100% correct. Of course, by linking I hope we all understand that this not "real" linking; it's just linking the KPL backlights.

 

Sfhutchi,

 

Yes, we can do the same. Or, in the mean time, while trying to do synchronized buttons, you can always choose the KPL last (drop it in last); this would have the same exact effect.

 

 

With regards,

Michel

 

 

Doesn't PowerHome do this by making sure the last link written to a scene in the KPL is always the button to load link (if one exists)?

[Scott]

How exactly do you set up the synchronized buttons? I select a keypad button on the left, click the synchronized buttons button and I get a second window that allows me to choose one other button or a scene (synchronized buttons 1 or 2) and hit OK. It seems to be doing something, but when I go to the keypad and press the button I selected, no buttons respond to it.

 

There's no info about it in the manual, can we get a simple how-to?

[Michel Kohanim]

Scott,

 

You are right: there's no information in the manual since maintaining the PDF in each release takes 25% more time. We have chosen to update the documentation after major releases only. In the mean time, we are working on a Wiki site with all the information.

 

Now, to do synchronized buttons, all you have to do is to drag and drop those buttons that you want to be synchronized into a group (say Synchronized Buttons 1). After the programming is complete, all the buttons in the same group follow each other: turning one off, turns all the others off as well and vice versa.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

How exactly do you set up the synchronized buttons? I select a keypad button on the left, click the synchronized buttons button and I get a second window that allows me to choose one other button or a scene (synchronized buttons 1 or 2) and hit OK. It seems to be doing something, but when I go to the keypad and press the button I selected, no buttons respond to it.

 

There's no info about it in the manual, can we get a simple how-to?

[Scott]

Ok that's pretty useless. It's like voluntarily taking buttons off of your keypad.

 

Anyways, part of the reason I didn't get it figured out on my own is that the click and drag functionality doesn't work unless the button you're trying to drag is already highlighted. You have to click, then click and drag.

[Michel Kohanim]

Scott,

 

I wouldn't say it's 100% useless; it's mainly used to have one of the buttons control the load since you cannot link them in the conventional way (controller/responder).

 

With regards,

Michel

 

Ok that's pretty useless. It's like voluntarily taking buttons off of your keypad.

 

Anyways, part of the reason I didn't get it figured out on my own is that the click and drag functionality doesn't work unless the button you're trying to drag is already highlighted. You have to click, then click and drag.

[Mark Sanctuary]

Michel,

If I want to use the ISY to setup a “All On†or “All Offâ€; would this work?

 

1. [*:2fz6czu5]Add all responder switch load(s) to your “All ***†scene.
   [*:2fz6czu5]Add controller keypad non-load LED button to your “All ***†scene.
   [*:2fz6czu5]Create synchronize button association with keypad non-load LED button to the keypad load button; by doing a drag-n-drop onto the “All ***†scene.

I don't think this is correct; can you give the correct step by step for creating a “All On†or “All Off†scene?

 

Thanks!

[Michel Kohanim]

Mark,

 

Yes but with the pre-condition that you cannot use KPL buttons to do an All On/All Off if the KPL load itself for those buttons is going to be part of that scene.

 

So, if you want an All on/All off scene using your KPL buttons, you have to use the KPL load button as the controller for that scene. If you want to control only the load for that KPL, then simply do a Synchronized Group between the KPL load button and another button which is going to control only the load; i.e between KPL button A and KPL button 1/load. The effect is that from now on every time you click on the load button, the whole scene turns on/off. When you click A, only the load for the KPL turns on/off.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Michel,

If I want to use the ISY to setup a “All On” or “All Off”; would this work?

 

[*:3j2wkchw]Add all responder switch load(s) to your “All ***” scene.
[*:3j2wkchw]Add controller keypad non-load LED button to your “All ***” scene.
[*:3j2wkchw]Create synchronize button association with keypad non-load LED button to the keypad load button; by doing a drag-n-drop onto the “All ***” scene.

I don't think this is correct; can you give the correct step by step for creating a “All On” or “All Off” scene?

 

Thanks!

[Mark Sanctuary]

I wonder if the load button can be moved around the keypad. I know when you put it into 8 button mode the load button change. Do we know if there is a a way to move the load button to the D button?

[Sub-Routine]

I wonder if the load button can be moved around the keypad. I know when you put it into 8 button mode the load button change. Do we know if there is a a way to move the load button to the D button?

 

There is no way to change the load button. It does not change going from 6 to 8 mode, only that links are created when in 6 button mode that are not present in 8 button mode.

 

An option would be to use an InlineLinc for the load you have now and put no load on the KPL.

 

Rand

[Michel Kohanim]

Rand,

 

Excellent idea. The only issue is that I don't think most people would want to buy an extra InlineLinc for every KPL they have. In short, we have to find a workaround no matter how ugly it looks. Wouldn't you think?

 

With regards,

Michel

 

I wonder if the load button can be moved around the keypad. I know when you put it into 8 button mode the load button change. Do we know if there is a a way to move the load button to the D button?

 

There is no way to change the load button. It does not change going from 6 to 8 mode, only that links are created when in 6 button mode that are not present in 8 button mode.

 

An option would be to use an InlineLinc for the load you have now and put no load on the KPL.

 

Rand

[Mark Sanctuary]

So are you saying this is the workaround or have you guys come up with a way to do it with the non-load buttons?

 

Yes but with the pre-condition that you cannot use KPL buttons to do an All On/All Off if the KPL load itself for those buttons is going to be part of that scene.

 

So, if you want an All on/All off scene using your KPL buttons, you have to use the KPL load button as the controller for that scene. If you want to control only the load for that KPL, then simply do a Synchronized Group between the KPL load button and another button which is going to control only the load; i.e between KPL button A and KPL button 1/load. The effect is that from now on every time you click on the load button, the whole scene turns on/off. When you click A, only the load for the KPL turns on/off.

[Mark Sanctuary]

So are you saying this is the workaround or have you guys come up with a way to do it with the non-load buttons?

 

So, if you want an All on/All off scene using your KPL buttons, you have to use the KPL load button as the controller for that scene. If you want to control only the load for that KPL, then simply do a Synchronized Group between the KPL load button and another button which is going to control only the load; i.e between KPL button A and KPL button 1/load. The effect is that from now on every time you click on the load button, the whole scene turns on/off. When you click A, only the load for the KPL turns on/off.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Mark,

 

This is "the workaround" for now but the main issue is that the status of the load is not reflected in ISY using this method. We are looking for a another workaround (in the code) to update the status of the load when a synchronized button attached to the load button is on/off. This is going to be very ugly but we think it's a needed feature.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

So are you saying this is the workaround or have you guys come up with a way to do it with the non-load buttons?

 

So, if you want an All on/All off scene using your KPL buttons, you have to use the KPL load button as the controller for that scene. If you want to control only the load for that KPL, then simply do a Synchronized Group between the KPL load button and another button which is going to control only the load; i.e between KPL button A and KPL button 1/load. The effect is that from now on every time you click on the load button, the whole scene turns on/off. When you click A, only the load for the KPL turns on/off.

[Mark Sanctuary]

With the All On and All Off idea being used by many users and not all of them wanting to use the load buttons; I think that the in code solution, though unconventional, will be used by many so it will be well worth the effort.