Preserving relay setting across power failure

[oskrypuch]

Most all the Insteon devices that use relays will reset back to OFF (open) with a power failure. The EZIO devices as well, although their status after a power failure will vary somewhat.

 

However, the simple 2476S Switchlinc relay will remember its ON/OFF setting across a power failure. Not sure how long, but certainly at least 5 to 10 min. I have only tested the v.3A firmware.

 

Note that the Switchlinc with Sense (v.37) will NOT remember its setting.

 

If you have something critical that is driven by a relay insteon device, and wish to preserve across a power failure, the plain old Switchlinc is what you need.

 

I now have a bunch of ways to detect a power failure and correct settings across it, but I still use the Switchlinc for things that are critical, like a water valve control.

 

* Orest

[Brian H]

The latest 2456S3 ApplianceLinc and 2856S3B Icon relay modules also revert to Off after a power failure.

[ISYhbsh01]

I just learned this the hard way... We had here on Friday afternoon, in the about 100 degree heat (not including humidity), a power outage which lasted for almost 24 hours. So I moved in to my parants' house for the day. I have a couple of window a/c's plugged into Appliancelinc's. I always assumed that since the settings are stored in non-volatile memory that once power comes back on they will return to their previous state & the house will be cooled off when I return home. Turns out all of them were off when I returned except for one a/c which was turned on by a scheduling program. In my opinion this is really a shame. Why can't the appliancelinc remember it's previous state?

 

Does anyone have any ideas on how to get around this problem?

[Brian H]

Do you know the Hardware Revision from the sticker for the ApplianceLinc's or the firmware as reported in ISY Device list?

 

Only a guess. Someone thought a module turning back On after a power loss. Could be a safety issue.

All of mine HW 4.1 or below revert to last known state at power loss. My 4.2 reverts to Off. I believe I saw a chart saying 4.15 also reverted to Off.

[ISYhbsh01]

It's 4.2.

 

If they think it might be a safety issue they could have made it possible to let people change the setting themselves like with the load sensing option.

 

Does anyone have some ideas on how we could perhaps do some kind of an ISY program to get around this problem?

[LeeG]

An ISY Program can be defined with the Run at Startup option. When power comes back the ISY Program can turn On whatever devices are appropriate.

[ISYhbsh01]

Thanks LeeG,

 

What I need is a program which would return the appliancelinc to it's previous state from before the power outage whether on or off, if that's possbile.

[LeeG]

The ISY would not know the state of the ApplianceLinc before power was lost. Whatever logic was used to turn the ApplianceLinc on initially, such as within a certain time range, would have to be repeated in the startup program. If it was turned on based on device condition that makes it more difficult. There are latching relays that remain in a particular mechanical position across a power loss. A latching relay could be driven from an I/O Linc for example, and also connected to the I/O Linc Sensor input. Based on the I/O Linc Sensor (which represents the state of the latching relay) devices could be turned On. Seems like a lot of work for an infrequent situation.

 

Maybe it would just be easier to access the ISY remotely and turn the ApplianceLincs On when power comes back.

[oskrypuch]

The key to solving this, is to power backup the ISY, so that it does not lose state.

 

You can do one of several things:

 

1) Set up a program that runs say every 30 min, and queries the status of a dummy relay that is normally held ON. If it is OFF, then the ISY needs to do some clean up.

 

2) Set up a program that runs periodically, and sets a certain relay to ON. Then it queries the relay say 20 seconds later. If it is OFF, then the power is out right now. Set a variable to note a power outage, maybe send an email, and keep checking. Once the power is back on, cleanup time.

 

3) Get a delay ON relay (OMRON or equiv.) that will trigger when energized, but say 1 minute afterwards. Hook this up to a 2420, and have the relay ON trigger cause the ISY to realize that the power was off, and came back on, and then it can do cleanup.

 

I have implemented #2 and #3. It was fiddly, but now works quite well.

 

* Orest

[ISYhbsh01]

3 days ago I got up in the morning sopping wet from sweat and found that my window a/c which is on an appliancelinc was off. I checked my email and sure enough I saw a notification that at about 3 AM there was a brief power outage which caused the appliancelinc to be turned off. The outage probably lasted for only a second since most of my electronic clocks in the house didn’t reset but the damage was done. This was like the last straw that broke the back of the camel.

 

I thought that instead of an appliancelinc I would get an electrician to wire a new switch next to the outlet to control the outlet, and use a switchlinc which does retain its status after a power outage. Then I saw on Smarthome’s website that the outletlinc unlike the appliancelinc does retain its status. I have 1 outletlinc on hand so I replaced the regular outlet with the outletlinc. Unfortunately, after testing it by turning off the circuit breaker it reverted to off contrary to what the Smarthome website says. Oddly enough, I tried to activate the load sensing feature & that didn’t work either.

[Hurting2Ride]

I have implemented #2 and #3. It was fiddly, but now works quite well.

You can also do this by sorta combing all 3 ideas with an iMeter Solo. Poll it every so often and watch for it stop responding, which you can tell mainly by getting the exact same reading for an extended period of time whereas most things have at least a very slight variation in their power draw over time. That tells you the power is out and at which point you can send a notification (assuming your router and such are also on UPS) and then begin to watch for the power to come back on for your cleanup process.

 

There's another idea to help with dealing with return to state after a power outage that requires no polling or additional devices nor the ISY on UPS.

 

If you have "mission critical" items that need to be on/off, add them to a scene (lets called it MS). When you turn the critical devices on/off, also set their status in MS. Have your ISY run a program that turns on the "MS" scene about 20-30 seconds after the ISY powers up (that should give any other programs that run at boot enough time to get out of the way) and now you're not returning to a hot house or a flooded basement.

[apostolakisl]

What if you had the program that turns your appliance link on/off simultaneously set an integer variable on isy to 1 for on and 0 for off and inits that value so it maintains across power failure.

 

Set a program that runs only on start up which queries the variable and turns the appliance link on if the value is 1.

 

I have not used the "run at start up" feature, but per Michel's comments on another thread it always runs the "then" clause upon power up. So perhaps the "then" clause is a "run if" command that runs a second program reading along these lines.

 

Tracker for appliancelink

 
If
 Whatever conditions normally turn the appliance link on
Then
 $i.appliance.link.tracker init to 1
Else
  $i.appliance.link.tracker init to 0

 

 

 

 

Turn on 'run at startup' for this program

 
If
 No Conditions
Then
 Run Program 'power failure status check'
Else
 No action

 

 

Power Failure Status Check

 
If
  $i.appliance.link.tracker is 1
Then
  set 'ac appliancelink' to on
Else
  set 'ac appliancelink' to off

[Hurting2Ride]

What if you had the program that turns your appliance link on/off simultaneously set an integer variable on isy to 1 for on and 0 for off and inits that value so it maintains across power failure.

From a technical standpoint, yes it will work. However, because of the state nature of the ISY and some limitations currently in how variables can be used you will run in to a couple of ease-of-use issues.

 

• 1) if you have more than a few devices that you want to include you will end up with either quite a number of individual programs, 1 per device or an extremely complicated and hard to read set of IF/THEN clauses.
  2) you will have quite a number of additional state variables, again 1 per device
  3) If you have to account for devices that are not simply on/off, your set of IF/THEN statements has to account for every possible status. An AC or other temperature control would be a royal pain.
  4) You cannot easily see what state the devices are all supposed to be in. Think of looking at a single scene vs having to look in each individual program.
  5) Any time you decide you want to include a new device you have to set up a new variable and a new program. If you use a scene, you simply add the device to the scene and you're done.

 

Hope that helps.

[apostolakisl]

What if you had the program that turns your appliance link on/off simultaneously set an integer variable on isy to 1 for on and 0 for off and inits that value so it maintains across power failure.

From a technical standpoint, yes it will work. However, because of the state nature of the ISY and some limitations currently in how variables can be used you will run in to a couple of ease-of-use issues.

 

• 1) if you have more than a few devices that you want to include you will end up with either quite a number of individual programs, 1 per device or an extremely complicated and hard to read set of IF/THEN clauses.
  2) you will have quite a number of additional state variables, again 1 per device
  3) If you have to account for devices that are not simply on/off, your set of IF/THEN statements has to account for every possible status. An AC or other temperature control would be a royal pain.
  4) You cannot easily see what state the devices are all supposed to be in. Think of looking at a single scene vs having to look in each individual program.
  5) Any time you decide you want to include a new device you have to set up a new variable and a new program. If you use a scene, you simply add the device to the scene and you're done.

 

Hope that helps.

 

The OP stated he has a couple of relays that either turn his ac on/off (I assume these are window units with the temp setting on the unit itself). This would be quite simple to implement in that situation. I truly doubt anyone would do this across a 100 device Insteon installation, it simply isn't necessary. This is a great way to make sure that the mission critical stuff gets into the proper state after a power failure. I just don't consider using the programs and variables that we paid for when we bought the isy to be a problem. That's why I bought them!