russhog Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 I have a new isy99i device {12232DB } linked to a 2413s PLM. I can bring up the admin console of the device. I can sync to my system time etc. When i try to link my devies a #2450 I/O link device or my 2476D dimmer swich. I cannot get them to show up in my lighting, under the devices area. I click to start linking and push the link button on the device, but never get a link even in the manual link mode. Any ideas?
Brian H Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Are you running any Firewall or Anti Virus programs? If so names and revisions?
russhog Posted September 18, 2011 Author Posted September 18, 2011 Norton anti virus I turned the firewal off.
Michel Kohanim Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Hello russhog, BrianH is right on ... let's figure out whether or not the problem is that ISY cannot send status updates to your computer. Please try the following: 1. Go to Tools | Diagnostics | Event Viewer on the Device Communications level 2. Go to Configuration | System tab and under Clock, click on Synchronize Now 3. Do you see anything in the Event Viewer? With kind regards, Michel
russhog Posted September 18, 2011 Author Posted September 18, 2011 says is is initalizing all devices all devices are now initialized writing 0 bytes to devices
russhog Posted September 18, 2011 Author Posted September 18, 2011 newbie question do is the plm considered an access point or do i need a stand alone access point before i can link devices?
Brian H Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Most Insteon devices are power line only. Your 2413S can act as a Dual Band device and can be used with another dual band device to couple to the other phase of the homes wiring. The other dual band can be a Access Point or one of the newer dual band switches. Things that are strictly RF. Like a RemoeteLinc can use the 2413S as its receiver.
Michel Kohanim Posted September 19, 2011 Posted September 19, 2011 Hi russhog, Thanks. So, we do know that ISY is communicating with the Admin Console + ISY can communicate with the PLM. This is good. Now, do you have a lamp module that you could plug in right next to the PLM? If so, this will let us know whether or not the PLM can communicate with devices. With kind regards, Michel
oatflake Posted November 30, 2011 Posted November 30, 2011 Just wanted to chime in and say that I've been having problems linking new RF devices using my 2413S PLM as well. I have two access points, and when I place the device next to an access point I can link them immediately. It's almost like the wireless devices are invisible to only the PLM, but not the access points. I don't think my PLM has a broken antenna - I can press the button on the PLM 4 times rapidly and it does the beeping and the other access points blink appropriately in sync, so I'm assuming that means they are communicating with the PLM via the wireless path.
Michel Kohanim Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Hello oatflake, Thanks so very much for the feedback. We have had other reports of the same issue especially related to adding thermostats and in those cases it turned out that the PLM was in the range of a baby monitor (900 MHz). Do you happen to have a baby monitor anywhere near ISY/PLM? With kind regards, Michel
Brian H Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I believe some cordless phones used the 900MHz band also.
oatflake Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I don't have a baby monitor or cordless phone, and the only other wireless devices I have are my home wifi network and bluetooth for my cell phone. I also did the "Tap 4 times quickly" test on both the Access Point and the PLM and both will beep in rhythm to the flashing light on the other device, so it appears that they can "see" it each other wirelessly. I have some TriggerLincs that I just purchased that I will try out later when I get home to see if those have the same issue.
Brian H Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Is the flashing LED Red or Green? Red is I can talk to you by RF but you are on the same phase. Green is I can talk to you by RF and you are on the opposite phase. Green flashing is what you want if you only have a pair of Dual Band devices. I have three so one of mine may flash Red with one of my Access Points and Green with the other one.
oatflake Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Is the flashing LED Red or Green?Red is I can talk to you by RF but you are on the same phase. Green is I can talk to you by RF and you are on the opposite phase. Green flashing is what you want if you only have a pair of Dual Band devices. I have three so one of mine may flash Red with one of my Access Points and Green with the other one. One Access Point flashes green, the other red. I have 2 Access Points as well as the PLM. I don't think the PLM can flash any other color than green, so I have to tap on the PLM to confirm they are all on opposite phases. I actually have really reliable triggering from my motion sensors once everything is setup. I'm guessing that it's just the initial linking has some mode that only the Access Points can handle - that's what it feels like to me. Is there any way I can tell from the logs which RF device the Motion Sensor is talking to when it sends me a message? I'd like to know if it's actually talking to an Access Point (and which one) or if it's talking to the PLM's RF interface.
LeeG Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 oatflake I successfully added another RemoteLinc2 and two TriggerLincs this morning using the 2413S with v98 firmware with both Access Points unplugged. The most probable causes are either the PLM has a problem or there is interference with the RF in the area where the PLM is operating. Can the ISY/PLM be relocated temporarily to another room, as far away from its current physical location as possible. The other approach is simply pick up another PLM. If the new one has the same issue then local interference is highly suspect which is my guess at this point. I've added 5 RF devices (1 RemoteLinc2, 2 Motion Sensor, 2 TriggerLinc) with a v98 version working here without so much a single command timeout. I think this verifies the basic v98 firmware and hardware are working with a variety of RF devices. Are there houses near. My 900 Mhz phone has a working range of over 1000 feet so something in the area could be causing the problem. Lee
LeeG Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Unfortunately there is no indication which Dual Band device is carrying the RF traffic. It is all automatic and autonomous with nothing in the Insteon messages to indicate which device the message has flowed through.
oatflake Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Just a quick update on the tests others have suggested: 1. Moving the PLM someplace else I moved the PLM and ISY-99i to another part of my house, and I get the same behavior - Motion Sensor will not link with the ISY-99i. Add one Access Point to the mix and it links up right away. I even put the Access Point where the PLM used to be and placed the PLM where the Access Point was, and I still can only link up the device wherever the Access Point is. 2. Doing the 4-tap button press to confirm my PLM can see the other access points. I did this with each of the Access Points individually and they both can get the PLM's light to flash at reasonably close range (20 feet away). I also can do the 4-tap button press on the PLM and the Access Point will flash green if it is on a different phase and red if it's on the same phase. 3. Unplugging all of the Access Points so it's PLM-only. After making sure that my 3 Motion Sensors have been linked to the ISY-99i using my Access Points, I then unplugged both of the 2 Access Points and brought the 3 Motion Sensors within 20 feet of the PLM. All 3 can be seen sending Motion On and Off signals to the ISY-99i, and it appears to be quite reliable. From this, I conclude: 1. The PLM clearly has enough RF communication to talk with all 3 of the Motion Sensors once they have been Linked through another dual-band device (in this case, my Access Point). The communication to do this seems quite clear and reliable. 2. The PLM has enough RF communication to talk to the Access Points to do the 4-tap button press phase test mode. 3. The only thing that doesn't appear to work with the PLM is the initial linking of the wireless sensor device. I also tried this with a TriggerLinc 2421 that I just picked up, and it behaves the exact same way - works great with the PLM once it's linked (within a range of about 20 feet), but requires an Access Point to actually do the initial linking. I have no idea why LeeG's PLM, same hardware and software version, should work differently than mine. Is there a way for me to reset or re-initialize my PLM's built-in firmware?
LeeG Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Unplug the PLM for 60 seconds. Hold the PLM Set button in before plugging in the PLM. While holding the PLM Set button in plug in the PLM and continue to hold the PLM Set button for a full 10 seconds. You can confirm the Factory Reset of the PLM by doing a Show PLM Links Table. It should be empty. A Restore Modem (PLM) is now required to restore the PLM link table. The unique thing about the RF devices is they can only be added to the ISY using I2 Extended command linking. All event communication after that is done with I1 Standard Insteon messages. If something in the PLM was blocking I2 command processing the Factory Reset should clear it. If I2 linking continues to be a problem I would replace the PLM. My PLM works at the same hardware/firmware as yours. That means there is no generic issue with that level of PLM as far as I2 linking.
oatflake Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Unplug the PLM for 60 seconds. Hold the PLM Set button in before plugging in the PLM. While holding the PLM Set button in plug in the PLM and continue to hold the PLM Set button for a full 10 seconds. You can confirm the Factory Reset of the PLM by doing a Show PLM Links Table. It should be empty. A Restore Modem (PLM) is now required to restore the PLM link table. The unique thing about the RF devices is they can only be added to the ISY using I2 Extended command linking. All event communication after that is done with I1 Standard Insteon messages. If something in the PLM was blocking I2 command processing the Factory Reset should clear it. If I2 linking continues to be a problem I would replace the PLM. My PLM works at the same hardware/firmware as yours. That means there is no generic issue with that level of PLM as far as I2 linking. I did a Factory Reset of the PLM - according to the Quick Start guide for my PLM: "After several seconds, the Status LED should turn on, indicating a reset is complete". This did not happen. When I unplug for 60 seconds, then press and hold the button in while plugging it in, the light was red when I was holding the Set button down for 10 seconds, then upon releasing the button it turned green immediately (not after several seconds). I did check the ISY-99i and did a Show PLM Links Table, and it was indeed empty. So I'm assuming the Factory Reset went fine and the documentation is out of date. However, upon performing a Restore Modem it behaves just as before. I will contact Smarthome and see what they can do. Thanks again for all your help!
Michel Kohanim Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Hello oatflake, Can you tell me what's your PLM's firmware version (Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Status/Info). Thanks and with kind regards, Michel
oatflake Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Hello oatflake, Can you tell me what's your PLM's firmware version (Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Status/Info). Thanks and with kind regards, Michel Sticker on the back says: "v1.5 1122" PLM Status Info says: "v98"
LeeG Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Michel I have the same version of PLM, v1.5 1122 firmware v.98, which does work adding RF devices using this PLM as the only RF receiver. Lee
Michel Kohanim Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Hi Lee, Thank you. As mentioned in my other post, I think there might be an issue with some PLM firmware where the addresses in the links table are mangled. I am still not sure if this has to do with too many links or something ISY is doing now that it was not doing before (it's surely doing things quicker than before). In all cases that we have investigated, though, the problem seems to be that even though ISY writes (or sends) the correct commands/data to the PLM, the PLM only stores some of the address information for the device and fills the rest with 00s. Sometimes, there are records of all 00s ... With kind regards, Michel
oatflake Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 I might add that I upgraded the ISY99i to the latest Beta firmware 3.1.13 (because I wanted to try out the new variables feature) and things are still the same. I also contacted Smarthome and they are sending me a replacement modem so I will compare the two and see if anything has changed once it arrives. I'll post a reply letting you all know how that goes. My system isn't "in production" yet, so if you want to send me any debugging code to install on my ISY99i that may help troubleshoot the situation, I'm willing to do that. I should add, that aside from this one issue, everything is working PERFECTLY. All wireless devices are sending command reliably and the ISY is processing everything quickly and correctly!
Michel Kohanim Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Hello aotflake, Thanks so very much for the information. The best debugging tool would be: 1. Remove RL from your ISY 2. Open Event Viewer on Device Communications level 3. Add RL to your ISY 4. Save the Event Viewer contents and clear it 5. Go to Tools | Diagnostics | Show PLM Links Table and click Start 6. Once done, save the contents Please send me both 4 and 6. With kind regards, Michel
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