Insteon Energy Display - ISY support?

[andyf0]

I see the INSTEON Energy Display Item# 2448A2 is now available. I'm hoping to use it as an Insteon thermometer to be able to control a Venstar thermostat manually from the ISY. This would be located in the bedroom so I can control the temperature in the bedroom rather than the rest of the house at night.

 

It's unclear whether it transmits temperature on changes in temperature or just an alert when a dramatic increase or decrease in temperature is detected.

 

I don't think it's currently supported in the ISY but was wondering if Michel had an idea of when it might be supported.

[Teken]

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=6163

[andyf0]

I didn't see the latest updates to that thread. Thanks!

 

I will buy one when ISY supports it, hopefully soon now that the Elk gremlins are getting weeded out.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Guys,

 

We spent a couple of days on Energy Display and realized that there's really not much we can do with it:

1. To get temperature, it has to be polled

2. You can only link it to an iMeter but the problem is that the linking in this case does not follow regular INSTEON linking

3. ISY supports iMeter Solo so readings from iMeter Solo can be done directly to iMeter Solo

 

So, our main question to every one is: above and beyond temperature reading, what else did you have in mind as far as ISY support for this device?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[andyf0]

Thanks Michel for the information. I'm obviously going to have to figure something else out.

[cmccartney]

In regard to the 2448 Energy Display, it would be nice to be able to either:

- Read and test (in ISY programs) the values of Watts Now, Avg $/mo, and Avg kWh/mo for each of the three iMeters. At the very least to log them and include them in a notification message, OR

- Better yet, be able to use extended variables in ISY to gather and calculate the averages from the Display, or several iMeters seperately, and them use them as above.

 

An example: We have a second fridge downstairs that is seldom used (opened less often than the one in the kitchen). We are on time of day metering with PG&E (much higher kWh cost from 12n to 6pm). I would like to calculate the average cost per month correctly, for each period, and maybe experiment with turning that fridge off with a relay module from 12n-6p (except if a motion detector sees it being opened or an internal temperature sensor sees it getting warm). Either option above could provide the data to do this in ISY.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello cmccartney,

 

Comments below.

 

 

In regard to the 2448 Energy Display, it would be nice to be able to either:

- Read and test (in ISY programs) the values of Watts Now, Avg $/mo, and Avg kWh/mo for each of the three iMeters. At the very least to log them and include them in a notification message, OR

- Better yet, be able to use extended variables in ISY to gather and calculate the averages from the Display, or several iMeters seperately, and them use them as above.

I do not see any reference as to how we can poll the averages from the Display. And, even if we did, all these queries (which are probably every second) do cause major network performance issues. I think it would be best for ISY to include these functions using the readings from iMeter directly rather than getting them from the display. We'll look into it.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[cmccartney]

Micheal,

 

Thanks for the quick reply, and on a Sunday. You guys are great.

 

I will be looking forward to what you come up with.

 

Craig

[Teken]

This is how I would like to use the Energy display device so please do bare with me. I would like to have several of these Energy Displays placed in key areas of the home. Once the temperature in that room / zone reached a specified temperature.

 

The ISY would instruct various relay appliance lincs to turn on and begin venting, blowing, or exhausting the air in that room until such time the temperature came back up / down specified by me via a ISY program.

 

Can the Energy Display be used in this fashion??

 

I have several goals which are currently being tested, and validated at the moment. My primary plan is to install the Insteon thermostat. Once this device is in place it will serve as the secondary HVAC solution.

 

What I intend to do is the following based on the season (summer / winter): If the house reaches a specified temperature several stages of the HA will be invoked to maintain the set temperature.

 

Stage 1: Will instruct any zoned fans / ceiling fans to turn on to circulate the ambient air in that room / zone. If the temperature can not be stabilized.

 

Stage 2: This will turn on the over head range to exhaust the immediate air from the kitchen which is in the center of the home.

 

Stage 3: If again, the set temperature can still not be achieved. This will turn on the central exhaust in the home.

 

Stage 4: This will turn on the central AC system to complete the final task of meeting the set temperature based on time, schedule, etc.

 

All of this will be tied into the window blinds which will open / close to achieve the set temperature via the free solar heat generated by Mother Nature!

 

So, if I simply place the Energy Monitor(s) used as remote thermostats will these devices be able to perform the above tasks??

 

In plain terms: Can I count on being able to poll, then based on the readings of the remote TSTAT be able to craft a ISY program to achieve this end goal??

 

Your thoughts . . .

 

Teken . . .

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello Teken,

 

Yes, you can achieve all of those. The major blocking issues for us are:

1. The device has to be polled frequently ... this means that now all your programs might have a delay of (number of energy displays * polling execution delay) at every (number of energy displays * polling intervals). To me, this does not make a good system especially since all other programs are now blocked till the query is done.

 

2. The display can only be linked to iMeter Solo ... while, at the same time, we cannot read anything from the display that we cannot read from the iMeter Solo ... so, the query problem is now multiplied by the number of iMeter Solos

 

We could potentially add simple temp reading query for the display and leave out everything else. Would that work for everyone?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

If adding the temperature reading will achieve the above goal for sure! So if I could ask you to clarify one portion for me please. Can I only have a Energy Display on hand and have it work with my ISY system?

 

Or will I have to purchase a iMeter, along with a Energy Display? As always your continued support, and guidance is greatly appreciated Sir!

 

Teken . . .

[cmccartney]

 

We could potentially add simple temp reading query for the display and leave out everything else. Would that work for everyone?

 

 

Yes, I could live with that as long as being able to calculate averages from iMeter readings and trigger programs, etc is still on your "list".

 

Craig

[andyf0]

We could potentially add simple temp reading query for the display and leave out everything else. Would that work for everyone?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

That's all I need the display for. To monitor the temperature in a room.

 

Question: This thing is powered by 2 x AAA batteries. So it must rely on being in sleep mode most of the time. If the ISY was to query temperature say once a minute, wouldn't that reduce battery life considerably?

[johnnyt]

We could potentially add simple temp reading query for the display and leave out everything else. Would that work for everyone?

What I'd really like to see is energy (pardon the pun) spent on support for a (wired) one-wire temperature and humidity sensor solution. I think temp/hum (and thermostats, actually) should be kept off the insteon network, especially if each has to be polled every minute, times # of sensors (& stats).

 

Teken,

I currently use a HomeSeer and one-wire based sol'n (that I would like to move to ISY but can't right now) for what you'd like to do. I routinely turn on house ventilation to balance out the temperature in the house. However, unless one lives in a particularly dry region, the biggest bang for the buck IMO is with respect to managing humidity in the house. I'm able to turn on the bathroom fans when the humidity hits ~12% higher in one compared with the humidity on the main floor (far from bathrooms, kitchen, laundry room) then off again when it comes back down. In winter I turn on/off the furnace humidifier and HRV based on indoor humidity levels and the outside temperature. In summer I also control the HRV around temp and humidity outside, turn on/off a dehumidifier, and lower the AC setpoint when the humidity in the house is high but the temp is not quite high enough to otherwise trigger the AC. I have to say the automagic bathroom fans have been the most visible automation tricks in my bag next to motion/scene lighting. While people don't see much of the stuff going on, I consider humidity control in general to have provided the highest ROI since, unlike much of the other automation stuff (that I like too), it contributes directly to the house's and my family's health.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello johnnyt,

 

Can you tell me which one wire temp sensor you are currently using?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

We could potentially add simple temp reading query for the display and leave out everything else. Would that work for everyone?

What I'd really like to see is energy (pardon the pun) spent on support for a (wired) one-wire temperature and humidity sensor solution. I think temp/hum (and thermostats, actually) should be kept off the insteon network, especially if each has to be polled every minute, times # of sensors (& stats).

 

Teken,

I currently use a HomeSeer and one-wire based sol'n (that I would like to move to ISY but can't right now) for what you'd like to do. I routinely turn on house ventilation to balance out the temperature in the house. However, unless one lives in a particularly dry region, the biggest bang for the buck IMO is with respect to managing humidity in the house. I'm able to turn on the bathroom fans when the humidity hits ~12% higher in one compared with the humidity on the main floor (far from bathrooms, kitchen, laundry room) then off again when it comes back down. In winter I turn on/off the furnace humidifier and HRV based on indoor humidity levels and the outside temperature. In summer I also control the HRV around temp and humidity outside, turn on/off a dehumidifier, and lower the AC setpoint when the humidity in the house is high but the temp is not quite high enough to otherwise trigger the AC. I have to say the automagic bathroom fans have been the most visible automation tricks in my bag next to motion/scene lighting. While people don't see much of the stuff going on, I consider humidity control in general to have provided the highest ROI since, unlike much of the other automation stuff (that I like too), it contributes directly to the house's and my family's health.

 

I 100% agree with all that is stated. It is the elusive (remote) temperature / humidity which I am trying to master and have the ability to monitor and control that eludes me. Any insight as to the probe you're using would be greatly appreciated there Sir!

 

Teken . . .

[johnnyt]

Hello johnnyt,

Can you tell me which one wire temp sensor you are currently using?

With kind regards,

Michel

I use Midon Design pre-built kits.

 

I have ten "MD3020E" temp/humidity sensors, some in custom enclosures, others hidden in cold air returns. See mid way down the page @ http://www.midondesign.com/Sensors/sensors.html

 

All are read by the "Temp08", which reports the data out an RS232 serial port http://www.midondesign.com/TEMP08/TEMP08.html

 

The Temp08 also supports other sensors and relay devices. From the manual at http://www.midondesign.com/Documents/TEMP08UserGuide.PDF:

 

· Multiple DS2438-based Humidity Sensors, including, of course, the Midon Design

MD3020E Humidity Sensor.

· Multiple DS2438 based Barometric Sensors

· Multiple DS2438 general purpose sensors for analog voltage input

· Multiple DS18S20, DS18S20-PAR, DS18B20, DS1822, DS1920 temperature sensors as

well as temperature reading from any DS2438

· One DS2450 based Weather Station for wind speed and wind direction

· Multiple DS2450 voltage sensors

· Multiple DS2423 based rain gauges

· Multiple DS2423 general purpose counters (for use with Lightning sensors and other

types of counter inputs)

· Multiple DS2401 or DS1990 1-Wire serial numbers (only presence will be reported)

· Up to 20 1WIO relay interface modules (or equivalent DS2408 based relay module)

available from Midon Design

· Up to 10 1WIO LED modules (available from Midon Design)

· Up to 20 1WIO Input modules (available from Midon Design)

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi johnnyt, this is great. Thanks so very much for sharing.

 

andyf0, yes, the batteries are going to drain if we have to query them every few minutes. Personally, I really do not think this is a good solution for temperature reading as it has ill-effect on the overall performance of your system.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

Hi johnnyt, this is great. Thanks so very much for sharing.

 

andyf0, yes, the batteries are going to drain if we have to query them every few minutes. Personally, I really do not think this is a good solution for temperature reading as it has ill-effect on the overall performance of your system.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Hello Michel,

 

I finally received the 3 Energy Monitors. Will the next ISY release have the capabilities stated by the SmartHome sales page? Currently I do not see any method to add this device to the ISY at all.

 

Teken . . .

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi Teken,

 

Unfortunately not ...

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

Hi Teken,

 

Unfortunately not ...

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

No support will be forth coming in the future at all via UDI?

 

Teken . . .

[Michel Kohanim]

Teken,

 

Perhaps minimal support. Is yours running on battery or power supply?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

[Teken]

Teken,

 

Perhaps minimal support. Is yours running on battery or power supply?

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

 

I am using high output rechargeable AAA batteries so I don't have to worry about long term battery costs.

 

Teken . . .

[Brian H]

I thought the Energy Display is battery only. So the only way to use a AC power supply would be to custom patch one in.

Since it is normally battery only. It does go to sleep to conserve the batteries.

[Michel Kohanim]

Teken thank you.

 

Brian H, thank you. You see, we cannot simply keep querying the thermostat since it will a) go into sleep mode and even if it doesn't, all the queries are going to drain the battery.

 

We are still looking to see if there are minimal things we can do to support this sub-optimal device without causing all sorts of tech support issues.

 

With kind regards,

Michel