Goose66 Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I have a couple of ApplianceLincs and several Icon relays in the mix for holiday lighting. Those ApplianceLincs running LED lighting are leaking, in that even when off the LED lights are dimly lit. Are these ApplianceLincs bad? Is there a better module to use here? How can an ApplianceLinc leak?
apostolakisl Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Yes, I learned of this last year. The devices are not malfunctioning. They normally "leak" a micro amount so that they can tell if you manually turn the attached device (light) on/off. The thing with LED's is that they require only milliamps to start to light up. If you want to block this from happening add another load. A wall wart does the job.
Brian H Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 As mentioned it is normal for very low current LEDs to glow. From the local control sensing circuit. X10 Appliance Modules also will make low current LEDs glow. So Insteon ApplianceLincs are not unique in the finding. Besides wall warts. Some have used a 4 watt incandescent night light. Someone in the Smarthome Forums used an Air Wick Scented Oil Warmer to stop their LEDs from glowing. http://www.smarthome.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9256
Goose66 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Posted December 6, 2011 So, does the Icon Relay not have the local control sense current? Also, is there a more elegant solution that doesn't require a "wall wart," night light, or Airwick Oil dispenser hanging in my Christmas decorations? Like bridging the last plug on the series of LED lights with a resistor or something? I would even entertain opening up the appliance link and cutting a wire to disable the local control sense circuit, if that is possible?
Brian H Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Yes the Icons are the same . There is no jumper in the ApplianceLinc or Icon On Off module. Like the X10 ones have. Turning the Local Sensing Off option only has the module ignore local control events. The sensing current is still there. You don't have to hang the added load on the tree. Use a multiple connection tap on the AppliancLinc's outlet so you can plug both the added load and the LED lights directly into it. If you can safely do it. A 47K 1/2 watt maybe enough. A 33K 1 watt could also be used.
TJF1960 Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Hi kingwr, Yes the icon appliancelinc has local control as well as do the lamplincs. Unfortunantly disabling local control is a bit more involved than cutting a wire. It requires removing two chip resistors. If you are no stranger to a soldering pencil and SMT and dont mind voiding your warranty it is possible. I have mod'ed my lamplincs for the undercabinet LED lighting and works great. Also mod'ed appliancelincs for Xmas stuff too. Tim
Brian H Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Tim; Mostly hardware person question. Have you done both the older and newer hardware designed modules? I know they are very different internally between my v1.3 and 4.1 AppliancLincs.
Goose66 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Posted December 6, 2011 I have mod'ed my lamplincs for the undercabinet LED lighting and works great. Also mod'ed appliancelincs for Xmas stuff too. Is there some place to find details for these mods?
TJF1960 Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 Tim; Mostly hardware person question.Have you done both the older and newer hardware designed modules? I know they are very different internally between my v1.3 and 4.1 AppliancLincs. Hi Brian, have done 4 or 5 of the older ones with the white relay. Have not had a need to do the newer ones yet, but I am pretty sure it could be done. I could look into it if your interested. I have done the older lamplincs and new lamplicks with dual band and without. kingwr, not that I am aware of. I did it on my own. Tim Edit:Brian, I take that back I have done the newer appliancelincs as well. I didn't look deep enough into my mods file. So in answer to your question yes I have done both.
Goose66 Posted December 6, 2011 Author Posted December 6, 2011 kingwr, not that I am aware of. I did it on my own. I don't suppose you are up for making a Youtube video?
apostolakisl Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I don't really think it is a good idea to take your lamplinc appart and void the warranty and possibly screw it up. It really is so easy to just put a tiny little load on with the led lights. If you really wanted something tiny, you could experiment with resistors and find the highest rated resistor that drains off enough juice to stop the led's from glowing. Just stick the two leads into the female part of one of your strings of light and see which ones get the lights to shut down. Of course only do this with the lamplinc off (only the sensor current flowing) so as to avoid getting shocked. Once you determine the best resistor, wire it up to a plug, insulate it, and plug it in to the string of lights.
Brian H Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I was just curious as I have had both versions apart to dissect them. Its the old electronic technician in me getting curious. I actually had one of the v.12s that smoked. Yes all they did was remove the two series caps across the relay contacts and call it a v1.3. The 4.1s have an RC network across the relay contacts.
Brian H Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I took a 35 LED 120 Volt .02 amp Christmas Light set and tested it with a 47K 1/2 watt resistor. With both a revision 1.3 and 4.1 ApplianceLinc. The LEDs did not glow and when On the resistor was not too warm as it was dissipating about .31 watts. Little more than half its rating. Though extreme care would be needed if a resistor was used. Don't need any sparks or lost members here.
apostolakisl Posted December 6, 2011 Posted December 6, 2011 I took a 35 LED 120 Volt .02 amp Christmas Light set and tested it with a 47K 1/2 watt resistor.With both a revision 1.3 and 4.1 ApplianceLinc. The LEDs did not glow and when On the resistor was not too warm as it was dissipating about .31 watts. Little more than half its rating. Though extreme care would be needed if a resistor was used. Don't need any sparks or lost members here. I was thinking, it might be possible to take an old strand of lights that don't work, cut off the wire from the pass through plug they come with, solder the resistor to the little stub of wire and shrink wrap it with that insulation srink wrap stuff. In this fashion, you will have a very small solution that also has a pass through plug. It will be 99.99% invisible.
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