f11 Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 How many times can we flash new programming into the ISY-99i/IR before we start approaching the limit? It just occurred to me as I merrily made a change, saved it, made a change, saved it, ad nauseum... IIRC, all flashable devices have some upper limit as to how many times you can update the flash memory before that memory starts getting flakey. Seems to me I often read 100,000 cycles as typical (so you could perform 100 re-flashes each day for about 2.7 years, or more likely 10 flashes per day on average for 27 years ). Mind you, perhaps current technology flash memory has better recovery after many cycles?? Rod
MikeB Posted February 2, 2008 Posted February 2, 2008 Good question. I was actually thinking about something similar a while back when people were discussing ways to have different on-levels for different times of the day. If SwitchLinc Dimmers didn't require a soft-reset to apply on-level changes, I was thinking a good way to accomplish this would be to have a way in the ISY to program new on-levels into devices a couple times per day. This wouldn't work, however, because of the needed soft-reset. Even if it did work, I wonder if this would potentially decrease the life of the switch...
Michel Kohanim Posted February 3, 2008 Posted February 3, 2008 Rod, Good question and something that we had to think about when designing and thus chose SD Card as the medium for storage. SD Card, as you suggested, last about 100,000 write/erase/delete operations and millions of reads. Normal life expectancy, if you upgraded your ISY every day, would be 3 years. The other advantage is that you can simply replace the SD card in case it become defective (make sure you have your latest backup). With kind regards, Michel How many times can we flash new programming into the ISY-99i/IR before we start approaching the limit? It just occurred to me as I merrily made a change, saved it, made a change, saved it, ad nauseum... IIRC, all flashable devices have some upper limit as to how many times you can update the flash memory before that memory starts getting flakey. Seems to me I often read 100,000 cycles as typical (so you could perform 100 re-flashes each day for about 2.7 years, or more likely 10 flashes per day on average for 27 years ). Mind you, perhaps current technology flash memory has better recovery after many cycles?? Rod
f11 Posted February 3, 2008 Author Posted February 3, 2008 Ah, I didn't realize there was an SC card IN the ISY itself. Good thinking!! I normally open boxes like these if they have standard screws, just to understand what the guts look like, and hopefully gain a greater "electro-mechanical empathy" with how they work. But I didn't this time 'cause I was anxious to get the programs running. Now - where did I put my screwdriver set... Rod
AD8BC Posted February 4, 2008 Posted February 4, 2008 Michel, this is the kind of product engineering that they don't teach you in college. Great idea! Rod, Good question and something that we had to think about when designing and thus chose SD Card as the medium for storage. SD Card, as you suggested, last about 100,000 write/erase/delete operations and millions of reads. Normal life expectancy, if you upgraded your ISY every day, would be 3 years. The other advantage is that you can simply replace the SD card in case it become defective (make sure you have your latest backup). With kind regards, Michel How many times can we flash new programming into the ISY-99i/IR before we start approaching the limit? It just occurred to me as I merrily made a change, saved it, made a change, saved it, ad nauseum... IIRC, all flashable devices have some upper limit as to how many times you can update the flash memory before that memory starts getting flakey. Seems to me I often read 100,000 cycles as typical (so you could perform 100 re-flashes each day for about 2.7 years, or more likely 10 flashes per day on average for 27 years ). Mind you, perhaps current technology flash memory has better recovery after many cycles?? Rod
DualBandAid Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Good question and something that we had to think about when designing and thus chose SD Card as the medium for storage. SD Card, as you suggested, last about 100,000 write/erase/delete operations and millions of reads. Normal life expectancy, if you upgraded your ISY every day, would be 3 years. The other advantage is that you can simply replace the SD card in case it become defective (make sure you have your latest backup). With kind regards, Michel Does this apply to "writes" to a dimmer switch as well?
Brian H Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Insteon Modules do have a EEPROM in them for nonvolatile storage. They also have a typical read/erase/rewrite cycle specification. Reading stored data has a much larger specification. There is a section in the Full Users Manual for the ISY99i/994i on how to replace the SD card. I changed the one in my ISY99i for a larger one. Mine was an earlier version where I had to take the top off and remove the PCB. Later ones have a nice slot in the case. No disassembly needed. http://www.universal-devices.com/docs/p ... _3.2.6.pdf
DualBandAid Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Do you know what that specification is? I'd like to adjust the brightness levels to a SwitchLinc several times a day. Basically so at 8 am, if you hit on, you get 70%. But then adjust it so that, say, at 12 pm, if you hit on, you get 100%. And so on. That could be 5-6 writes a day...
Brian H Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Not sure what EEPROM is in the latest units. I know the ones in my older modules. Is guaranteed 1,000,000 erase/write cycles. Though I would imagine most go for more than guaranteed cycles.
arw01 Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Why not just use a program to adjust the level it is turned onto. Buy one of those new micro modules and use a scene where you don't have to re-program anything.
DualBandAid Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 I know the ones in my older modules. Is guaranteed 1,000,000 erase/write cycles. Though I would imagine most go for more than guaranteed cycles. Though it is almost self-evident, Brian, just to be sure...then I'm pretty much safe even doing 100 cycles a day? That's 30 years right there...? Why not just use a program to adjust the level it is turned onto. Buy one of those new micro modules and use a scene where you don't have to re-program anything. arw01, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that I should purchase a second module - and have that module's on button trigger a program that adjusts the level the light is turned on? I actually foresee a number of problems with that: 1) I'd like to do this for every light -- which would mean purchasing and installing a second switch on a wall for every light. 2) Even if that is okay, I've noticed there is a delay when using a button push to trigger a program. Have I correctly pointed out some negatives with that plan...or did I not understand it? Thanks!
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