Communication - Error 0 and 1?

[Nuttycomputer]

Hey guys trying to track down an interesting issue. I'm losing communication to the entire insteon network (which admittedly is only 2 devices right now a Switchlinc and EZFlora, will be adding 3 more tomorrow - fanlinc, kpl, and venstar)

 

The odd thing about this issue is that it has only really lost communication during evening to morning. This is odd because it is during the day and before late evening when anything causing a large amount of noise would be being used. Main reason I'm posting though is I'm seeing Error 1 and Error 0. These don't seem to be listed under the error code of the wiki. What are these referring to? Do I have a bad PLM?

 

Here is an output of the last few days from one of the devices. Both devices show the same error codes when trying to initiate control.

 

Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Sat 2012/04/14 11:44:29 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	0	Sat 2012/04/14 11:45:09 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Sun 2012/04/15 09:44:49 AM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	0	Sun 2012/04/15 09:49:27 AM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Sun 2012/04/15 07:38:47 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	0	Sun 2012/04/15 10:30:59 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Sun 2012/04/15 10:33:25 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	0	Sun 2012/04/15 10:33:25 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Sun 2012/04/15 10:37:30 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Tue 2012/04/17 07:40:52 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	0	Tue 2012/04/17 10:40:45 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Tue 2012/04/17 11:41:10 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	0	Tue 2012/04/17 11:48:56 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Tue 2012/04/17 11:49:06 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	0	Tue 2012/04/17 11:49:28 PM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Wed 2012/04/18 12:09:34 AM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	0	Wed 2012/04/18 12:32:40 AM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Wed 2012/04/18 12:33:02 AM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Wed 2012/04/18 12:41:38 AM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Wed 2012/04/18 01:55:39 AM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	0	Wed 2012/04/18 02:02:41 AM	System	Log
Master Bedroom / Master Bathroom Light	Error	1	Wed 2012/04/18 02:03:03 AM	System	Log

 

 

This is the output from the Event Viewer when attempting to run a program designed to lower the lamp light at night. This was run at 3:43 AM so program is true:

 

Wed 04/18/2012 03:41:57 AM : [        Time] 03:41:59 0(0)

Wed 04/18/2012 03:41:57 AM : [  1A 39 82 1]      ERR   0

Wed 04/18/2012 03:41:57 AM : [  1A 39 82 1]       OL  89

Wed 04/18/2012 03:41:57 AM : [  1A 39 82 1]       RR  18

Wed 04/18/2012 03:41:57 AM : [All         ] Writing 10 bytes to devices

Wed 04/18/2012 03:41:58 AM : [1A 39 82 1  ] Link    3 : 0FE0 [22121BFA48FF1F01] Writing [22121BFA48FF1F01]

Wed 04/18/2012 03:41:58 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 1A 39 82 0F 28 0F

Wed 04/18/2012 03:41:58 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 1A.39.82 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:07 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 1A 39 82 0F 28 0F

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:07 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 1A.39.82 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:15 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 1A 39 82 0F 28 0F

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:16 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 1A.39.82 0F 28 0F 06          SET-MSB(0F)

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:19 AM : [1A 39 82 1  ] Link    3 : 0FE0 [22121BFA48FF1F01] *Failed Writing [22121BFA48FF1F01]

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:20 AM : [  1A 39 82 1]      ERR   1

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:20 AM : [All         ] Writing 0 bytes to devices

 

I'm hoping when I add 3 more devices tomorrow, 2 of which are dual band it will help.

[Brian H]

Do you have any coupling between the power line phases yet?

Are the module new? As they maybe the new I2CS protocol types.

Are you using the latest ISY firmware 3.2.4? That added I2CS messaging?

I recently saw the Error 0 and Error 1 show up in my logs occasionally. Probably added in a later firmware not covered in the wiki yet.

[Nuttycomputer]

Do you have any coupling between the power line phases yet?

Not yet but the circuits I'm dealing with should all be on the same phase of power and it works most of the time without issue. I did the dryer test and it works regardless of whether that is on or off.

Are the module new? As they maybe the new I2CS protocol types.

The Switchlinc was purchased in December'ish. I don't know if that is new enough. Is there a way to determine? The PLM was purchased in the last month.

Are you using the latest ISY firmware 3.2.4? That added I2CS messaging?

Yes

[LeeG]

The 1A.39.82 device is not responding to commands. Note the 8-9 second delay between command execution in the trace. This is ISY waiting for a device response that never arrives. The end result is tagged as ERR 1. The trace starts out with an ERR 0. If you have the trace activity before the ERR 0 result it will be possible to identify what that means. I suspect it is related to what was being done rather than the actual error condition.

 

When this type of comm error occurs it usually indicates a lack of coupling, significant noise from something (cell phone charger, Laptap on that is not on 24/7, CFLs, etc) or there is electronic equipment (PC Laptop power supply, UPS, etc) at the PLM plug point that is not on a FilterLinc.

 

Wed 04/18/2012 03:41:58 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A 39 82 0F 28 0F

 

Wed 04/18/2012 03:41:58 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1A.39.82 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

 

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:07 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A 39 82 0F 28 0F

 

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:07 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1A.39.82 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

 

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:15 AM : [iNST-TX-I1 ] 02 62 1A 39 82 0F 28 0F

 

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:16 AM : [iNST-ACK ] 02 62 1A.39.82 0F 28 0F 06 SET-MSB(0F)

 

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:19 AM : [1A 39 82 1 ] Link 3 : 0FE0 [22121BFA48FF1F01] *Failed Writing [22121BFA48FF1F01]

 

Wed 04/18/2012 03:42:20 AM : [ 1A 39 82 1] ERR 1

[Nuttycomputer]

When this type of comm error occurs it usually indicates a lack of coupling, significant noise from something (cell phone charger, Laptap on that is not on 24/7, CFLs, etc) or there is electronic equipment (PC Laptop power supply, UPS, etc) at the PLM plug point that is not on a FilterLinc.

 

Hey Lee,

 

Thanks for helping when you say at the plug point does that include a device on the same circuit as the PLM or literally just the same outlet. Currently I have my PLM plugged in behind the entertainment system. When I'm home and trying to actively test this it works fine (of course) with no repeats even with every device in the entertainment system on.

 

Laptop power supply is interesting. I may have to check that one. Did have one plugged into a surge protector on the opposite wall. Still plugged in from what I remember. When I get home I will test the laptop power supply. If it is the laptop power supply the big question is as I add Insteon devices (especially dual band devices) will this improve or will a dedicated filterlinc still be necessary? It would be slightly cumbersome to keep it with the Laptop PSU and intrusive to add it to every outlet that a laptop could possibly be plugged into.

 

Additionally is there a preferred method of troubleshooting this or is it just a matter of taking everything out and plugging it in one at a time?

 

Thanks again

[Brian H]

Electronics in things like LCD TVs and other entertainment equipment. Frequently have internal power line filters in them. To prevent noise getting into them and noise they generate going back on the power lines.

Many times they have to be filtered.

 

Also the PLM should never be on a filtered power strip.

Some power strips only have spike suppression in them and probably would not absorb Insteon power line signals as noise.

[Nuttycomputer]

Additionally here is a requested stream including what happened before error 0. In this case attempt was made to turn on the east irrigator:

 

Wed 04/18/2012 08:48:29 AM : [iNST-TX-I1  ] 02 62 16 B2 44 0F 40 00

Wed 04/18/2012 08:48:29 AM : [iNST-ACK    ] 02 62 16.B2.44 0F 40 00 06                 (00)

Wed 04/18/2012 08:48:29 AM : [  16 B2 44 1]      ERR   0

Wed 04/18/2012 08:48:29 AM : [  16 B2 44 1]       ST 255

Wed 04/18/2012 08:48:33 AM : [  16 B2 44 1]      ERR   1

[Nuttycomputer]

Also the PLM should never be on a filtered power strip.

Some power strips only have spike suppression in them and probably would not absorb Insteon power line signals as noise.

 

Should clarify the PLM isn't on a powerstrip. It is plugged in behind the entertainment system directly into the bottom outlet of the receptacle. The top outlet of the receptacle then goes into a powerstrip in the cabinet. Basic strip with limited surge protection. A Game Console, TV, DVD/VCR Combo, and the ISY is plugged into this. However all these can be on without issue from what I know so far.

[LeeG]

The interference is generally related to the same circuit, not limited to the specific outlet. The PLM/ISY is often powered where other electronic equipment is located. Devices such as a computer, UPS, have power supplies that do a great job of eliminating noise. The problem is the Insteon signal looks like noise to these devices and the signal level can be attenuated to the point where it is not reliable. Other devices have noisy power supplies themselves. Some cell phone chargers are so bad they will wipe out all powerline communication.

 

Adding devices can help as each Insteon device is a repeater. That should not be considered a solution to a problem caused by other devices on the circuit. The trace shows a total loss of communication with the switch. That is not normally resolved by additional devices. When hop counts are increasing, indicating marginal comm, additional devices often help. Not so much when there is no comm.

 

A good Insteon mess network is the result of many things being right. Good phase coupling, isolating noisy devices and signal attenuators with filters.

 

EDIT: thanks for the additional trace. That is a trace of an EZFlora Zone On request that received no response. Same basic problem as with the SwitchLinc, total comm. failure. If on the same 120V phase that suggests a signal source issue. Something at the PLM site can be absorbing the signal. Could be as simple as the PLM being plugged into a surge suppressor. Could be other devices generating noise or absorbing the signal. An easy test is to plug the PLM into an extension cord and plug the PLM into another circuit. That could be a problem here since you have no coupling.

[Nuttycomputer]

Lee,

 

Thanks again for the assistance. I got home an plugged in powered up every electrical device I have in the house. Including plugging in the cell phones and no go. Immediately unplugged just the laptop and communication stopped. So that's the culprit. More interestingly it isn't just that circuit. I plugged it in on a different circuit with no improvement. Still could not communicate. Looks like it is affecting the whole house (or at least that phase)

 

While I understand the repeater RF should not be considered a solution I will see if will act as a solution in my case. (Who knows maybe I'll get lucky) Otherwise I'll just need to get a dedicated Filterlinc for that device. Will look slightly tacky but oh well. My main computer/printer electronics are on a different phase so I imagine I may need to get a couple more.

 

Edit: Now that I could query engine my device I did find it is i1 so somewhat related question what functionality does i2 provide? When did it come out? Is it something I should necessarily be concerned about making sure my Switchlinc has it?

[LeeG]

What is often referred to as I2 was the next evolution in the Insteon protocol specifications. Perhaps in the 2007 time frame. Extended commands (longer in length) are attributed to the I2 specification even though extended commands were in the original Insteon (I1) specification. Insteon devices did not start to implement extended commands until the I2 spec was developed. Even so many years later a few users still have the old RF SignaLincs installed. These are the predecessor to Access Points. SignaLincs do not support extended commands so users with old equipment find extended commands are not coupled.

 

Extended commands for link database management allow a single command to do what requires 17 standard commands to accomplish. Extended commands for device configuration allow options to be changed and take effect immediately (no power cycle required).

 

Devices that have been shipping for years support some degree of I2.

 

As with all things the Insteon protocol has evolved again with what is being described as I2CS. It adds additional validation of extended message content (checksum) thus the I2 CheckSum designation.

 

The only real need to know about I2CS (started shipping a few weeks ago) is that it requires a minimum ISY firmware level of 3.2.x to handle I2CS devices.

[Nuttycomputer]

Adding the Dual band Fanlinc in actually did resolve the issue. Though I'm not sure how/why as a scene test and event viewer showed the lights receiving still via only 1 hop instead of relying on new devices to repeat. So given that I've gone ahead and ordered a Filterlinc anyway just in case I experience anymore problems as I add to the insteon network.

[Nuttycomputer]

I got the Filterlinc today but discovered the laptop won't actually charge if downstream of the device. Laptop adapter acts as if it isn't getting enough power. Anyone experience this? For now I'm juts relying on the Dual-Band communications to bypass noise and hoping it doesn't cause any further problems.

[Brian H]

The FilterLinc is a 10 amp filter. There should be no appreciable voltage drop through it.

Try a light bulb on the filtered outlet. Maybe in the 100 watt range. If it also does not work. Your FilterLinc is defective.