accessha Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 I would like to propose an enhancement to the tree navigation structure. It doesn’t necessarily have to replace the current view but maybe it could be an alternate view. What are your thoughts on the attached image below? I believe for many people this might be a more logical and organized approach.
Michel Kohanim Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 accessha, Very good idea and one which has already been requested and is on our list of requirements. With kind regards, Michel I would like to propose an enhancement to the tree navigation structure. It doesn’t necessarily have to replace the current view but maybe it could be an alternate view. What are your thoughts on the attached image below? I believe for many people this might be a more logical and organized approach.
aLf Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 Love the idea! Without a doubt this would make a much more organized layout. aLf
Mark Sanctuary Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 Boy-o-boy this one sure is a popular request. I think this is the 4th or 5th time now. [*:hjcxntuh] Program Detail Tree Suggestion[*:hjcxntuh]Main Lighting KPL Trees ideas[*:hjcxntuh]ISY Products Requests - post 235
Michel Kohanim Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Mark and accessha, Thanks so very much for the feedback and suggestions. Our philosophy is to implement what users suggest and thus we create a priority based on the requirements and what we feel is important. GUI related requirements, if not impediments to correct operation and if not simple enough to implement, are usually at our low priority. For instance, in the span of time since Mark and others suggested the navigation enhancement, we have implemented: X10 Support ELK Triggers and Programming Soon to be release SSL/HTTPS mobile phone support IRLinc, Thermostat, etc. Web Services and REST With kind regards, Michel Maybe it should be marked Sticky.
morgan4x4 Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 I'd like to chime in and second this request. I am a fairly new Insteon/ISY adopter, but with 20+ devices and 20+ scenes, am already running into organizational issues with the current display. Being able to organize devices and scenes logicially is huge to me, and as I grow this to 50+ devices, this will become a significant (and much needed) improvement. I look forward to this enhancement. Regards, Richard
accessha Posted February 19, 2008 Author Posted February 19, 2008 User Interface design tends to be very subjective. Ask a programmer their idea of the perfect user interface and they might say it’s the Command Line. Ask someone unfamiliar with technology and they would probably prefer something more graphical and intuitive like OS/X. I try to stress the importance of “User Experience†and “Usability†to anyone developing a product designed for the masses. I’ve spent my entire life in the field of technology and if there is something I find confusing, I’m fairly certain the average user will be utterly perplexed. Other than the improvements to the navigation tree, I would also like to see more Wizards and Confirmation prompts for the various tasks within the ISY, particularly when tap-adding new devices. A simple confirmation after a critical action is initiated like: “Are you sure you want to delete all Insteon device links?†would make a huge difference for the first time user. That being said, I think the ISY is a wonderful product and way ahead of the competition.
Mark Sanctuary Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 Accessha has expressed something that I have always agreed with ever since I started coding my first GUI. I am one of the few guys that in my code spend lots of time up front designing my GUIs then I add the supporting code. I find that the more I spend on GUI always pays me back in much less support for users to use my program which leads to more time coding. The hard part for Michel is I think the current ISY device tree was created from scratch and has lots of custom callbacks/variables and may requre lots of rework and testing to gut and rebuild. The programming tree in the ISY you can see that the guys used a built in Java widget so no custom widget code, which I think they will convert to this same Java widget (seperate trees) in the future for devices too. Michel maybe you could express when you think it might be worked on so all might understand its coming.
upstatemike Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 While I'm sure that additional GUI features would be nice, I have to say that with 175 devices I have no problems with organization. As long as your naming convention is logical you should have no trouble keeping things straight. My naming standard is constructed as . is obviously a room or area such as "kitchen" or "outside" or "3rd floor" or "bsmt". I try not to make these too granular since this is the top level for sorting. I would lump all of "3rd floor" or "attic" together for example rather than making each 3rd floor or attic room a location. On the main floor it is usually a single room such as kitchen or office. is used to be more specific about what is being controlled. This might be something like "ceiling" or "lamp" or "fan" or "chandelier". It could also be a subroom in a larger area. For example, I have "workshop" and "pump room" and "lab" and "stairwell" as different devices in my "Bsmt" location. If the device is a keypadlinc then this field is always "keypad". If it is a controlinc or remotelinc then would be "Ctrl" or "Remote" respectively. (If there is more than one in the same room it might be something like "Desk Ctrl", "Back Ctrl", etc.) generally refers to details about the actual switch or module. By convention, if the switch directly controls the load then I put the type of load; light, fan, etc, into this field. If the switch does not control a load I will put "switch" in this field. This makes it very easy in a 3-way set up to know which switch actually controls the load as in: "Bsmt stairwell light" and "Bsmt stairwell switch". For a keypadlinc the for button 1 is "1 - " since the field always says "keypad". So my laundry room keypad top button is called "Laundry Keypad 1 - No Load" and my Kitchen keypad top button is called "Kit Keypad 1- Countertops". The field for secondary buttons is just "Btn A", "Btn B", etc. So I have a "Laundry Keypad Btn A", "Laundry Keypad Btn B", etc. For controlincs and remotelincs I just use "Btn 1", "Btn 2", etc, for the as in "Living Room Remote Btn 1". This naming convention really helps me to keep track of what I am doing when it comes to linking stuff and the device tree sorts very nicely!
Mark Sanctuary Posted February 19, 2008 Posted February 19, 2008 I already use a similar naming convention; folder organization is the next step up from that. Besides in home automation software there has almost always been the device/scene/macro tree, its just plain useful.
Algorithm Posted March 12, 2008 Posted March 12, 2008 In our current tree, My Lighting is a top level node, and each scene is a top level node. In accessha's screen shot, it appears as though his suggested view is a top level node (Home), and that the scene nodes remain the same but have all been collected under a top level node called 'Links & Scenes'. It occurs to me that the current My Lighting top level node could also exist within that structure. So there would be three top level nodes (I think of them as Devices [My Lighting], Home, and Scenes). The user could simply expand whichever node (or all of them) he was interested in at any point.
Mark Sanctuary Posted March 12, 2008 Posted March 12, 2008 The main point about this change is the tree is fully customizable by the user just as the programs folders are, and the folders should allow all devices/groups(scenes)/programs in them. Unlimited folders deep would also be needed. Any newly added devices and not filed devices/groups(scenes)/programs would default to going into an un-filed "My ISY Nodes" folder which is a big part to making a fully custom tree design possible. The ability to add and remove folders for KPLs, to gather scenes by rooms, to cluster programs with the rooms. The ability to put your program timers in a folder with the device(s) that are controlled by the timer. To gather together device groups(scenes) with the individual devices. Put folders in anywhere in the whole tree. The combinations are endless just as how a house design combination is endless. The folder system is one of the biggest confusion reducers, because the user can gather things together that connect and interact with each other the way they understand them. Also the user could collapse the entire tree to show a single room thus giving the ability to work on a single room at a time. In the end users should be able to make the folders match the way their house is divided, so they can look at their folders and see how the house is put together, this puts the power to understand in the users hands not the predefined folder structure. The "My Home" section at the code level is really symbolic links to the nodes list in the "My ISY Nodes" section, but the user would not be aware of this because they are just doing drag-drop or context-menu manipulations. This would also give the ability to have more than one of the same entry in the tree. My Home ___ Family Room _______ Family Room Chair Light _______ Family Room Light _______ Family Room Fan _______ Family Room Group _______ Family Room Dim Program _______ Family Room Timer Program ___ Bath Room _______ Bath Room Light _______ Bath Room Fan _______ Bath Room Timer Program ___ Christmas _______ Christmas Inside ___________ Christmas Tree ___________ Christmas Fire Place Lights ___________ Christmas Village Lights ___________ Christmas Inside Group ___________ Christmas Timer On/Off Program _______ Christmas Outside ___________ Christmas Music Radio ___________ Christmas Sign ___________ Christmas Outside Lights ___________ Christmas Sign Timer Program ___________ Christmas Outside Lights Timer Program ___________ Christmas Music Radio Motion Program ___ Dog House (aka. shed) _______ Dog House KPL ___________ Dog House KPL Main Light ___________ A: All Lights _______________ A: All Lights Button _______________ All Lights Group _______________ All Lights LED Follow Program ___________ B: Lets Party Button ___________ C: Party Over Button ___________ D: All Shed Lights Button _______ Dog House Easy Chair Light _______ Dog House Disco Ball _______ Dog House Fog Machine _______ Dog House Arcade Games _______ Dog House Popcorn Machine _______ Dog House Party Group _______ Dog House Popcorn Machine Timer Program My ISY Nodes ___ Devices _______ Family Room Chair Light _______ Family Room Light _______ Family Room Fan _______ Bath Room Light _______ Bath Room Fan _______ Christmas Tree _______ Christmas Fire Place Lights _______ Christmas Village Lights _______ Christmas Music Radio _______ Christmas Sign _______ Christmas Outside Lights _______ Dog House KPL Main Light _______ Dog House Easy Chair Light _______ Dog House Disco Ball _______ Dog House Fog Machine _______ Dog House Arcade Games _______ Dog House Popcorn Machine ___ Groups _______ Family Room Group ___________ Chair Light ___________ Room Light ___________ Room Fan _______ Christmas Inside Group ___________ Christmas Tree ___________ Fire Place Lights ___________ Village Lights _______ Dog House Party Group ___________ Dog House KPL Main Light ___________ Dog House Easy Chair Light ___________ Dog House Disco Ball ___________ Dog House Fog Machine ___________ Dog House Arcade Games ___________ Dog House Popcorn Machine _______ All Lights Group ___________ Family Room Chair Light ___________ Family Room Light ___________ Family Room Fan ___________ Bath Room Light ___________ Bath Room Fan ___________ Christmas Tree ___________ Christmas Fire Place Lights ___________ Christmas Village Lights ___________ Christmas Sign ___________ Christmas Outside Lights ___________ Dog House KPL Main Light ___________ Dog House Easy Chair Light _______ All Appliances Group ___________ Christmas Music Radio ___________ Dog House Disco Ball ___________ Dog House Fog Machine ___________ Dog House Arcade Games ___________ Dog House Popcorn Machine ___ Programs _______ Family Room Dim Program _______ Family Room Timer Program _______ Bath Room Timer Program _______ Christmas Programs ___________ Christmas Timer On/Off Program ___________ Christmas Sign Timer Program ___________ Christmas Outside Lights Timer Program ___________ Christmas Music Radio Motion Program _______ All Lights LED Follow Program _______ Dog House Popcorn Machine Timer Program ...
Mark Sanctuary Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 Fleshed out the tree concept a bit more in the above post.
Algorithm Posted March 21, 2008 Posted March 21, 2008 My Home___ Family Room _______ Family Room Chair Light _______ Family Room Light _______ Family Room Fan _______ Family Room Group _______ Family Room Dim Program _______ Family Room Timer Program ___ Bath Room _______ Bath Room Light _______ Bath Room Fan _______ Bath Room Timer Program ___ Christmas _______ Christmas Inside ___________ Christmas Tree ___________ Christmas Fire Place Lights ___________ Christmas Village Lights ___________ Christmas Inside Group ___________ Christmas Timer On/Off Program _______ Christmas Outside ___________ Christmas Music Radio ___________ Christmas Sign ___________ Christmas Outside Lights ___________ Christmas Sign Timer Program ___________ Christmas Outside Lights Timer Program ___________ Christmas Music Radio Motion Program ___ Dog House (aka. shed) _______ Dog House KPL Main Light ___________ A: Folder _______________ A: All Lights Button _______________ All Lights Group _______________ All Lights LED Follow Program ___________ B: Lets Party Button ___________ C: Party Over Button ___________ D: All Shed Lights Button _______ Dog House Easy Chair Light _______ Dog House Disco Ball _______ Dog House Fog Machine _______ Dog House Arcade Games _______ Dog House Popcorn Machine _______ Dog House Party Group _______ Dog House Popcorn Machine Timer Program My ISY Nodes ___ Devices _______ Family Room Chair Light _______ Family Room Light _______ Family Room Fan _______ Bath Room Light _______ Bath Room Fan _______ Christmas Tree _______ Christmas Fire Place Lights _______ Christmas Village Lights _______ Christmas Music Radio _______ Christmas Sign _______ Christmas Outside Lights _______ Dog House KPL Main Light _______ Dog House Easy Chair Light _______ Dog House Disco Ball _______ Dog House Fog Machine _______ Dog House Arcade Games _______ Dog House Popcorn Machine ___ Groups _______ Family Room Group ___________ Chair Light ___________ Room Light ___________ Room Fan _______ Christmas Inside Group ___________ Christmas Tree ___________ Fire Place Lights ___________ Village Lights _______ Dog House Party Group ___________ Dog House KPL Main Light ___________ Dog House Easy Chair Light ___________ Dog House Disco Ball ___________ Dog House Fog Machine ___________ Dog House Arcade Games ___________ Dog House Popcorn Machine _______ All Lights Group ___________ Family Room Chair Light ___________ Family Room Light ___________ Family Room Fan ___________ Bath Room Light ___________ Bath Room Fan ___________ Christmas Tree ___________ Christmas Fire Place Lights ___________ Christmas Village Lights ___________ Christmas Sign ___________ Christmas Outside Lights ___________ Dog House KPL Main Light ___________ Dog House Easy Chair Light _______ All Appliances Group ___________ Christmas Music Radio ___________ Dog House Disco Ball ___________ Dog House Fog Machine ___________ Dog House Arcade Games ___________ Dog House Popcorn Machine ___ Programs _______ Family Room Dim Program _______ Family Room Timer Program _______ Bath Room Timer Program _______ Christmas ___________ Christmas Timer On/Off Program ___________ Christmas Sign Timer Program ___________ Christmas Outside Lights Timer Program ___________ Christmas Music Radio Motion Program _______ All Lights LED Follow Program _______ Dog House Popcorn Machine Timer Program ... Hi Mark, Do you spend a lot of time in the dog house ?
Mark Sanctuary Posted July 7, 2008 Posted July 7, 2008 Depends on how the wind is blowing. Every dog house should be automated.
Mark Sanctuary Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 OK... I don't know how the heck I missed that folders where added in 2.7.6 ISY-99 firmware! I love how you guys implemented them too. And you enabled them exactly as I was hoping in programs code! Way to go guys!
Sub-Routine Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Didn't you get the e-mail? OK... I don't know how the heck I missed that folders where added in 2.7.6 ISY-99 firmware! I love how you guys implemented them too. And you enabled them exactly as I was hoping in programs code! Way to go guys!
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