Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I have an Accesspoint plugged into a PLM (for the ISY) and an Accesspoint about 3 feet from the Laundry room switch (on the same circuit). The Accesspoints are about 10 feet from each other) I get comm failures for this switch as well. Same situation for my Highhats out front. An Accesspoint is literally about 3 feet of wire away from the switch. If the communications cant go from the PLM to an Accesspoint (plugged into the PLM) to another Accesspoint and then through 3 feet of wire to a switch then how will anything work relaibly? If I use a PLC it works perfectly (with or without the Accesspoints). What can be wrong with the PLM that it wont work? I cant get a straight answer from SH Tech Support other than they are aware of it and working on it. So its clear the Accesspoints by the switches are plugged into outlets directly below the switches on the same circuit (the outlet is 12 inches off the floor and the switch about 46 inches). Ok technially its 3 feet 8 inches of wire............ whatever it should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstatemike Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I am skeptical that plugging an Accesspoint into the PLM is the solution to all communications problems. I have my PLM on a dedicated circuit and I have no problems. I have 2 Accesspoints at the breaker panel (one on each leg) so I have coupling and repeating right where all the circuits come together. I do not try to make Accesspoints do double duty as RF receivers for remotelincs + circuit couplers. The Accesspoints at the breaker panel are in the best place to couple the two AC legs. Other Accesspoints are in optimum locations for receiving Remotelinc signals. I do not have any PC or UPS on the same circuit as any PLM or Accesspoint. Even though my PowerHome PLC worked on a circuit with a PC on it, I never thought of it as good practice or a permanent configuration. I have also had situations where the ISY initially reported communications errors with a switch. At first I tried using an Accesspoint to resolve the problem and was surprised that it did not have any effect. I then did a restore of the problem device and the communication errors went away. (Sometimes I had to do the restore more than once to solve the problem... not sure why). Make sure your communications problem is really a signal issue and not a link table issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I am skeptical that plugging an Accesspoint into the PLM is the solution to all communications problems. I have my PLM on a dedicated circuit and I have no problems. I have 2 Accesspoints at the breaker panel (one on each leg) so I have coupling and repeating right where all the circuits come together. I do not try to make Accesspoints do double duty as RF receivers for remotelincs + circuit couplers. The Accesspoints at the breaker panel are in the best place to couple the two AC legs. Other Accesspoints are in optimum locations for receiving Remotelinc signals. I do not have any PC or UPS on the same circuit as any PLM or Accesspoint. Even though my PowerHome PLC worked on a circuit with a PC on it, I never thought of it as good practice or a permanent configuration. I have also had situations where the ISY initially reported communications errors with a switch. At first I tried using an Accesspoint to resolve the problem and was surprised that it did not have any effect. I then did a restore of the problem device and the communication errors went away. (Sometimes I had to do the restore more than once to solve the problem... not sure why). Make sure your communications problem is really a signal issue and not a link table issue. Definetly worth trying. The only thing is it is intermitant and works then doesnt and then works later on again. So it may not be the problem. I am open to try almost anything. Thanks for the advice!! Edit: Tried to restore the Laundry Room Switch and "Request Failed" so that is not a link table issue but a Communication Issue in my opinion (not stating a fact just my opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upstatemike Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Try doing a factory reset on the switch first and then restore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Try doing a factory reset on the switch first and then resore it. Ok will do..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bjcatlin Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 It could also be something putting noise on the line. I had a similar problem in my bedroom, where a lamplinc just would not work even with the accesspoint plugged directly on top of it. As it turns out, it was a CRT TV on the other side of the room causing all of the problems. One filterlinc later, and everything worked perfectly. As for the PLM vs. PLC, it could be that the PLC can put out a stronger signal that can be heard above the noise and then be relayed around, while the PLM, with its weaker signal, just gets drowned out by the noise. So, maybe you should try playing the little game of "Track down the noise". And don't forget, the noise can also come from something hardwired in (such as a furnace blower or water pump), or, it could even be coming in through your mains, which would be really hard to filter out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 It could also be something putting noise on the line. I had a similar problem in my bedroom, where a lamplinc just would not work even with the accesspoint plugged directly on top of it. As it turns out, it was a CRT TV on the other side of the room causing all of the problems. One filterlinc later, and everything worked perfectly. As for the PLM vs. PLC, it could be that the PLC can put out a stronger signal that can be heard above the noise and then be relayed around, while the PLM, with its weaker signal, just gets drowned out by the noise. So, maybe you should try playing the little game of "Track down the noise". And don't forget, the noise can also come from something hardwired in (such as a furnace blower or water pump), or, it could even be coming in through your mains, which would be really hard to filter out. I agree with your statements and I have spent a ton of time trying to track down the problems. You seem to hit it on the head with the PLC strnger than the PLM and thats the real problem. They should have been equal. I cannot find a noise source. I have turned off all breakers with no Insteon devices, unplugged everything else, and shut off the furnace (although it does not run that often and the problem exists when its not running). Its a lot of work to disconnect everything in the house and I have done it several times. I dont see any noise on the line with the ELK meter but I do notice that the signal is stronger out of the PLC (pins the meter) then the PLM (not full scale) but I am more inclined to it being a reception problem of the PLM and not transmit. The sensitivity of the PLM is horrible compared to other devices according to a previous post I have done some research on the SH website to collect receive sensivity numbers for some of the Insteon devices. Here is what I found (sorry for the rough format) +------------------+------------+---------------+----------------+ |.Device.Name......|.SH.Number..|.Min.Rcv.Level.| +------------------+------------+---------------+----------------+ | PLM..............| 2412S..........|............20 | | LampLinc.........| 2456D3/S3..|............10 | | LampLinc. .......| 2456D2.......|.............1 | | Access Point.....| 2443...........|.............1 | | SignaLinc Rf.....| 2442...........|.............1 | | Icon.................| 2876SB/DB..|.............1 | | Icon Appliance...| 2856S3B......|............10 | | Icon Dimmer......| 2856D2B.....|.............1 | | KeypadLinc.......| 2486D.........|.............1 | | PowerLinc USB....| 2414U......|.............0 | | PowerLinc Serial | 2414S........|.............0 | | SwitchLinc.......| 2476D/S/ST |............. 1 | | ControLinc.......| 2430.......|.............1 | +------------------+------------+---------------+ I noticed the transmit power for all devices was the same, 3.2 volts. The data for the PowerLincs was not listed. Forgive me if I have a number or two wrong, I pulled this together fairly quickly. This invites some conclusions and also some questions: Conclusions: I would expect the PLM to have communication problems (indeed, it does) I would expect any device with a sensivity of one mv to have a substantial impact when piggy backed onto a PLM (this does, too) Questions: Wouldn't it be more cost effective to build uniform receiver units for every module type with the same sensitivity? The transmitters appear to be this way. Why do the two vs three pin versions of the lamp/appliance modules have different sensivities? Of all modules to put a really low sensitivity on, why the PLM? Insteon is a great system, and I love all 40 devices I have installed. But if I wasn't an engineer I would have given up on it a year ago. It shouldn't require a high level of technical skill to get a system up and running (and keep it running). I suspect the target market is limited because of this. I expect other forum members will have more questions. It is quite apparent from reading the forums that a "deaf" PLM is a common problem. Perhaps this data explains why. Linuxguy This is what SH needs to work on and I think they are but they are not giving a straight answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 2008/02/10 12:48:01 : [ 0 CB 19 1] Restoring Device 'Laundry Room'2008/02/10 12:48:01 : [ 0 CB 19 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 12:48:25 : [ 0 CB 19 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 12:48:31 : [ 0 CB 19 1] Restoring Device 'Laundry Room' 2008/02/10 12:48:31 : [ 0 CB 19 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 12:48:55 : [ 0 CB 19 1] - Writing links FAILED network: Cache entry found 2008/02/10 12:59:23 : [ 0 CB 19 1] Restoring Device 'Laundry Room' 2008/02/10 12:59:23 : [ 0 CB 19 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 13:00:31 : [ 0 CB 19 1] - Writing links FAILED I tried to restore the Laundry room and it fails every time. I sometimes cant control if from the ISY. Now the really wierd part........ Everytime I walk into the Laundry room and trip the Motion connected to the ELK the light comes on 100% of the time. I cant remember it failing. The Elk uses the ISY to communicate with the Switch and the ISY uses the PLM. I can turn the light on by walking into the room and then 30 seconds later try and turn it off with the ISY and sometimes it will work and other times I get a comm failure. Edit: The same for trying to turn it on..... sometimes I get a comm failure. This to me is very wierd. I figure if I find the problem causing this with the one switch it may anser most of the problems. FYI their are accesspoints plugged into the PLM and also ust below the Laundry room switch (about 3 feet of wire). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 I tried a system restore (again) and noted that many devices failed to restore. I might be wrong but it looks like a communication issue. 2008/02/10 20:59:58 : [ 0 54 A4 1] Restoring Device 'Dining Rm Hutch' 2008/02/10 20:59:58 : [ 0 54 A4 1] - Writing 1 links 2008/02/10 21:00:17 : [ 0 54 A4 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:00:17 : [ 0 54 A4 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:00:29 : [ 0 54 A4 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:00:29 : [ 0 CB 19 1] Restoring Device 'Laundry Room' 2008/02/10 21:00:29 : [ 0 CB 19 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:01:12 : [ 0 CB 19 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:01:12 : [ 0 CB 19 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:01:13 : [ 0 CB 19 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:01:13 : [ 0 CB 1D 1] Restoring Device 'Kitchen Counter Ligh' 2008/02/10 21:01:13 : [ 0 CB 1D 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:02:26 : [ 0 CB 1D 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:02:26 : [ 0 CB 1D 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:02:28 : [ 0 CB 1D 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:02:28 : [ 1 1F 1C 1] Restoring Device 'Small Bathroom Vanit' 2008/02/10 21:02:28 : [ 1 1F 1C 1] - Writing 2 links 2008/02/10 21:03:03 : [ 1 1F 1C 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:03:03 : [ 1 1F 1C 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:03:05 : [ 1 1F 1C 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:03:05 : [ 1 37 A4 1] Restoring Device 'Outside XMAS Left (o' 2008/02/10 21:03:05 : [ 1 37 A4 1] - Writing 2 links 2008/02/10 21:03:22 : [ 1 37 A4 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:03:22 : [ 1 37 A4 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:03:34 : [ 1 37 A4 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:03:34 : [ 1 38 4D 1] Restoring Device 'Master Bath Lights' 2008/02/10 21:03:34 : [ 1 38 4D 1] - Writing 6 links 2008/02/10 21:04:42 : [ 1 38 4D 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:04:42 : [ 1 38 4D 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:04:44 : [ 1 38 4D 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:04:44 : [ 1 38 51 1] Restoring Device 'Outside Highhats' 2008/02/10 21:04:44 : [ 1 38 51 1] - Writing 5 links 2008/02/10 21:06:11 : [ 1 38 51 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:06:12 : [ 1 38 51 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:06:35 : [ 1 38 51 1] - Removing remaining links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:06:35 : Failed to fully restore [1 38 51 1] (Outside Highhats) 2008/02/10 21:06:35 : [ 1 38 62 1] Restoring Device 'Attic Lights' 2008/02/10 21:06:35 : [ 1 38 62 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:07:08 : [ 1 38 62 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:07:08 : Failed to fully restore [1 38 62 1] (Attic Lights) 2008/02/10 21:07:08 : [ 1 4 D 1] Restoring Device 'Jonathans AC' 2008/02/10 21:07:08 : [ 1 4 D 1] - Writing 1 links 2008/02/10 21:08:04 : [ 1 4 D 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:08:04 : [ 1 4 D 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:08:06 : [ 1 4 D 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:08:06 : [ 1 64 DB 1] Restoring Device 'Front Spots' 2008/02/10 21:08:06 : [ 1 64 DB 1] - Writing 2 links 2008/02/10 21:08:31 : [ 1 64 DB 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:08:32 : [ 1 64 DB 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:08:33 : [ 1 64 DB 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:08:33 : [ 1 64 DC 1] Restoring Device 'Outside XMAS Right' 2008/02/10 21:08:33 : [ 1 64 DC 1] - Writing 2 links 2008/02/10 21:09:10 : [ 1 64 DC 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:09:10 : [ 1 64 DC 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:09:11 : [ 1 64 DC 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:09:11 : [ 1 8 FD 1] Restoring Device 'Living Room Ceiling ' 2008/02/10 21:09:36 : [ 1 8 FD 1] - Writing 10 links 2008/02/10 21:12:50 : [ 1 8 FD 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:12:51 : [ 1 8 FD 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:13:01 : [ 1 8 FD 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:13:01 : [ 1 9 D1 1] Restoring Device 'Living Room Light Ke' 2008/02/10 21:13:46 : [ 1 9 D1 1] - Writing 23 links 2008/02/10 21:20:48 : [ 1 9 D1 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:20:48 : [ 1 9 D1 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:20:50 : [ 1 9 D1 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:20:50 : [ 1 A 90 1] Restoring Device 'Upstairs Hall Keypad' 2008/02/10 21:21:05 : [ 1 A 90 1] - Writing 24 links 2008/02/10 21:25:25 : [ 1 A 90 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:25:25 : Failed to fully restore [1 A 90 1] (Upstairs Hall Keypad) 2008/02/10 21:25:25 : [ 3 4 1D 1] Restoring Device 'Dining Rm Chandlier' 2008/02/10 21:25:25 : [ 3 4 1D 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:26:29 : [ 3 4 1D 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:26:29 : Failed to fully restore [3 4 1D 1] (Dining Rm Chandlier) 2008/02/10 21:26:29 : [ 3 5 10 1] Restoring Device 'Small Bath Fan' 2008/02/10 21:26:29 : [ 3 5 10 1] - Writing 2 links 2008/02/10 21:27:04 : [ 3 5 10 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:27:04 : [ 3 5 10 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:27:06 : [ 3 5 10 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:27:06 : [ 3 8 D3 1] Restoring Device 'Master Bath Fan' 2008/02/10 21:27:06 : [ 3 8 D3 1] - Writing 2 links 2008/02/10 21:27:32 : [ 3 8 D3 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:27:32 : [ 3 8 D3 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:27:34 : [ 3 8 D3 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:27:34 : [ 4 3D FD 1] Restoring Device 'Living Rm Slave' 2008/02/10 21:27:34 : [ 4 3D FD 1] - Writing 3 links 2008/02/10 21:28:18 : [ 4 3D FD 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:28:18 : [ 4 3D FD 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:28:20 : [ 4 3D FD 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:28:20 : [ 4 4B DD 1] Restoring Device 'Den Lights' 2008/02/10 21:28:20 : [ 4 4B DD 1] - Writing 8 links 2008/02/10 21:30:25 : [ 4 4B DD 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:30:25 : [ 4 4B DD 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:30:26 : [ 4 4B DD 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:30:26 : [ 4 4E 9E 1] Restoring Device 'Den Lights Slave' 2008/02/10 21:30:26 : [ 4 4E 9E 1] - Writing 8 links 2008/02/10 21:31:14 : [ 4 4E 9E 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:31:14 : Failed to fully restore [4 4E 9E 1] (Den Lights Slave) 2008/02/10 21:31:14 : [ 4 50 CA 1] Restoring Device 'Katelyns Bedroom Lig' 2008/02/10 21:31:14 : [ 4 50 CA 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:33:05 : [ 4 50 CA 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:33:06 : [ 4 50 CA 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:33:07 : [ 4 50 CA 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:33:07 : [ 4 53 50 1] Restoring Device 'Garage Lights' 2008/02/10 21:33:07 : [ 4 53 50 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:34:23 : [ 4 53 50 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:34:23 : Failed to fully restore [4 53 50 1] (Garage Lights) 2008/02/10 21:34:23 : [ 4 75 81 1] Restoring Device 'Patio Lights' 2008/02/10 21:34:23 : [ 4 75 81 1] - Writing 7 links 2008/02/10 21:34:56 : [ 4 75 81 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:34:56 : Failed to fully restore [4 75 81 1] (Patio Lights) 2008/02/10 21:34:56 : [ 5 57 AD 1] Restoring Device 'Small Kitchen Counte' 2008/02/10 21:34:56 : [ 5 57 AD 1] - Writing 2 links 2008/02/10 21:36:38 : [ 5 57 AD 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:36:38 : [ 5 57 AD 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:36:40 : [ 5 57 AD 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:36:40 : [ 5 7C 94 1] Restoring Device 'Backdr KP Attic Stat' 2008/02/10 21:39:21 : [ 5 7C 94 1] - Writing 41 links 2008/02/10 21:42:04 : [ 5 7C 94 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:42:04 : Failed to fully restore [5 7C 94 1] (Backdr KP Attic Stat) 2008/02/10 21:42:04 : [ 5 96 BB 1] Restoring Device 'Heat' 2008/02/10 21:42:04 : [ 5 96 BB 1] - Writing 2 links 2008/02/10 21:43:00 : [ 5 96 BB 1] - Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:43:00 : [ 5 96 BB 1] Removing remaining links 2008/02/10 21:43:02 : [ 5 96 BB 1] Device Restored 2008/02/10 21:43:02 : [ 9 8A 1F 1] Restoring Device 'Entry Light Keypad' 2008/02/10 21:43:46 : [ 9 8A 1F 1] - Writing 15 links 2008/02/10 21:48:13 : [ 9 8A 1F 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:48:13 : Failed to fully restore [9 8A 1F 1] (Entry Light Keypad) 2008/02/10 21:48:13 : [ 9 9A 0 1] Restoring Device 'Front Motion Keypad' 2008/02/10 21:48:41 : [ 9 9A 0 1] - Writing 21 links 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ 9 9A 0 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : Failed to fully restore [9 9A 0 1] (Front Motion Keypad) 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ B B7 83 1] Restoring Device 'Jonathans Room' 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ B B7 83 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:57:00 : [ B B7 83 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:57:00 : Failed to fully restore [b B7 83 1] (Jonathans Room) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Hi Digger, Thanks for the update! Yes, it does seem like communication problems but to be 100% sure, may I humbly suggest the following: 1. Pick any two of the devices that could not be restored; it would be ideal if those two are the same two that can report to PLC but not to ISY 2. Try and restore them one at a time 3. If they still exhibit the same issue, then do a factory reset on each (one at a time) and retry the restore Please do let me know the outcome. With kind regards, Michel I tried a system restore (again) and noted that many devices failed to restore. I might be wrong but it looks like a communication issue. .... 2008/02/10 21:48:13 : [ 9 9A 0 1] Restoring Device 'Front Motion Keypad' 2008/02/10 21:48:41 : [ 9 9A 0 1] - Writing 21 links 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ 9 9A 0 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : Failed to fully restore [9 9A 0 1] (Front Motion Keypad) 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ B B7 83 1] Restoring Device 'Jonathans Room' 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ B B7 83 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:57:00 : [ B B7 83 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:57:00 : Failed to fully restore [b B7 83 1] (Jonathans Room) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Hi Digger, Thanks for the update! Yes, it does seem like communication problems but to be 100% sure, may I humbly suggest the following: 1. Pick any two of the devices that could not be restored; it would be ideal if those two are the same two that can report to PLC but not to ISY 2. Try and restore them one at a time 3. If they still exhibit the same issue, then do a factory reset on each (one at a time) and retry the restore Please do let me know the outcome. With kind regards, Michel I tried a system restore (again) and noted that many devices failed to restore. I might be wrong but it looks like a communication issue. .... 2008/02/10 21:48:13 : [ 9 9A 0 1] Restoring Device 'Front Motion Keypad' 2008/02/10 21:48:41 : [ 9 9A 0 1] - Writing 21 links 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ 9 9A 0 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : Failed to fully restore [9 9A 0 1] (Front Motion Keypad) 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ B B7 83 1] Restoring Device 'Jonathans Room' 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ B B7 83 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:57:00 : [ B B7 83 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:57:00 : Failed to fully restore [b B7 83 1] (Jonathans Room) I was already going down that path but it got to late last night. If I have time tonight I will give it a try. I also have to call SH since the keypads get flaky and if you press an A.B. C, or D button the load toggles. Also sometimes the load flashes on and off (constant cycling) and you have to press the off button a few times to get it to stop. FYI I unplugged the other PLC's in the house early yesterday so there can be no interference/interaction with anything else but it did not improve anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Hi Digger, Are the flashing KPLs 1.5 or 1.6? We've experienced the same here. With kind regards, Michel Hi Digger, Thanks for the update! Yes, it does seem like communication problems but to be 100% sure, may I humbly suggest the following: 1. Pick any two of the devices that could not be restored; it would be ideal if those two are the same two that can report to PLC but not to ISY 2. Try and restore them one at a time 3. If they still exhibit the same issue, then do a factory reset on each (one at a time) and retry the restore Please do let me know the outcome. With kind regards, Michel I tried a system restore (again) and noted that many devices failed to restore. I might be wrong but it looks like a communication issue. .... 2008/02/10 21:48:13 : [ 9 9A 0 1] Restoring Device 'Front Motion Keypad' 2008/02/10 21:48:41 : [ 9 9A 0 1] - Writing 21 links 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ 9 9A 0 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : Failed to fully restore [9 9A 0 1] (Front Motion Keypad) 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ B B7 83 1] Restoring Device 'Jonathans Room' 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ B B7 83 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:57:00 : [ B B7 83 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:57:00 : Failed to fully restore [b B7 83 1] (Jonathans Room) I was already going down that path but it got to late last night. If I have time tonight I will give it a try. I also have to call SH since the keypads get flaky and if you press an A.B. C, or D button the load toggles. Also sometimes the load flashes on and off (constant cycling) and you have to press the off button a few times to get it to stop. FYI I unplugged the other PLC's in the house early yesterday so there can be no interference/interaction with anything else but it did not improve anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Hi Digger, Are the flashing KPLs 1.5 or 1.6? We've experienced the same here. With kind regards, Michel Hi Digger, Thanks for the update! Yes, it does seem like communication problems but to be 100% sure, may I humbly suggest the following: 1. Pick any two of the devices that could not be restored; it would be ideal if those two are the same two that can report to PLC but not to ISY 2. Try and restore them one at a time 3. If they still exhibit the same issue, then do a factory reset on each (one at a time) and retry the restore Please do let me know the outcome. With kind regards, Michel I tried a system restore (again) and noted that many devices failed to restore. I might be wrong but it looks like a communication issue. .... 2008/02/10 21:48:13 : [ 9 9A 0 1] Restoring Device 'Front Motion Keypad' 2008/02/10 21:48:41 : [ 9 9A 0 1] - Writing 21 links 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ 9 9A 0 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : Failed to fully restore [9 9A 0 1] (Front Motion Keypad) 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ B B7 83 1] Restoring Device 'Jonathans Room' 2008/02/10 21:56:33 : [ B B7 83 1] - Writing 4 links 2008/02/10 21:57:00 : [ B B7 83 1] - Writing links FAILED 2008/02/10 21:57:00 : Failed to fully restore [b B7 83 1] (Jonathans Room) I was already going down that path but it got to late last night. If I have time tonight I will give it a try. I also have to call SH since the keypads get flaky and if you press an A.B. C, or D button the load toggles. Also sometimes the load flashes on and off (constant cycling) and you have to press the off button a few times to get it to stop. FYI I unplugged the other PLC's in the house early yesterday so there can be no interference/interaction with anything else but it did not improve anything. V1.4. I could not get through to Tech Support at lunch time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Doing a factory reset of the device does not help. I can try and try and try and eventually get the device to restore. Then I try the device and it does not control anything (its a keypad). So I tried something that will make you cringe...... I plugged a PLC back in and used Houselinc to relink the keypad to the dining room light. It works fine again for that button. One try to link and then I turned the dining room light on and off about a dozen times with no problems. When using the ISY to link I assume it just links the two devices. Is that an incorrect assumption? Meaning when you link with the ISY does the command to turn on and off a light with a keypad have to go through the ISY or still device to device? If that is the case (I doubt it) then maybe the PLM is not hearing the message and then the ISY does not know what is going on. Just a question and not implying anything or saying anything bad about the ISY. I am very happy with the ISY and would love to just get this working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Hi Digger, When you link two devices (put them in a scene together), the links are made between devices and ISY is not in the middle of directing traffic at all. So, by what you are saying then, you cannot do a restore device on any of these devices nor can you link them but you can use PLC/Houselinc to create the links. I guess I am now being convinced that the PLM is the culprit. I think we have tested every possible permutation of things. With kind regards, Michel Doing a factory reset of the device does not help. I can try and try and try and eventually get the device to restore. Then I try the device and it does not control anything (its a keypad). So I tried something that will make you cringe...... I plugged a PLC back in and used Houselinc to relink the keypad to the dining room light. It works fine again for that button. One try to link and then I turned the dining room light on and off about a dozen times with no problems. When using the ISY to link I assume it just links the two devices. Is that an incorrect assumption? Meaning when you link with the ISY does the command to turn on and off a light with a keypad have to go through the ISY or still device to device? If that is the case (I doubt it) then maybe the PLM is not hearing the message and then the ISY does not know what is going on. Just a question and not implying anything or saying anything bad about the ISY. I am very happy with the ISY and would love to just get this working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Hi Digger, When you link two devices (put them in a scene together), the links are made between devices and ISY is not in the middle of directing traffic at all. So, by what you are saying then, you cannot do a restore device on any of these devices nor can you link them but you can use PLC/Houselinc to create the links. I guess I am now being convinced that the PLM is the culprit. I think we have tested every possible permutation of things. With kind regards, Michel Doing a factory reset of the device does not help. I can try and try and try and eventually get the device to restore. Then I try the device and it does not control anything (its a keypad). So I tried something that will make you cringe...... I plugged a PLC back in and used Houselinc to relink the keypad to the dining room light. It works fine again for that button. One try to link and then I turned the dining room light on and off about a dozen times with no problems. When using the ISY to link I assume it just links the two devices. Is that an incorrect assumption? Meaning when you link with the ISY does the command to turn on and off a light with a keypad have to go through the ISY or still device to device? If that is the case (I doubt it) then maybe the PLM is not hearing the message and then the ISY does not know what is going on. Just a question and not implying anything or saying anything bad about the ISY. I am very happy with the ISY and would love to just get this working. I agree. And as I have said we need to make sure that SH fixes this. I appreciate your time and I will have to wait on the sidelines for SH to do something about this. SQUEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK LOL For the record......... the ISY is awesome and I cant wait for the PLM to be fixed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Hi Digger, When you link two devices (put them in a scene together), the links are made between devices and ISY is not in the middle of directing traffic at all. So, by what you are saying then, you cannot do a restore device on any of these devices nor can you link them but you can use PLC/Houselinc to create the links. I guess I am now being convinced that the PLM is the culprit. I think we have tested every possible permutation of things. With kind regards, Michel Doing a factory reset of the device does not help. I can try and try and try and eventually get the device to restore. Then I try the device and it does not control anything (its a keypad). So I tried something that will make you cringe...... I plugged a PLC back in and used Houselinc to relink the keypad to the dining room light. It works fine again for that button. One try to link and then I turned the dining room light on and off about a dozen times with no problems. When using the ISY to link I assume it just links the two devices. Is that an incorrect assumption? Meaning when you link with the ISY does the command to turn on and off a light with a keypad have to go through the ISY or still device to device? If that is the case (I doubt it) then maybe the PLM is not hearing the message and then the ISY does not know what is going on. Just a question and not implying anything or saying anything bad about the ISY. I am very happy with the ISY and would love to just get this working. I agree. And as I have said we need to make sure that SH fixes this. I appreciate your time and I will have to wait on the sidelines for SH to do something about this. SQUEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK LOL For the record......... the ISY is awesome and I cant wait for the PLM to be fixed! Steve, Can you advise your opinion on this situation? If the PLC can link and restore devices and the PLM cant can you think of any other reason other than the PLM not being equal to the PLC if they are plugged into the same outlet etc. Thanks Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I also forgot to mention that between the latest firmware and some timing tweaks to the RS232 routines the jams are gone. There is still an issue with lost data during high transmit traffic due to the fact that the PLM still sends received data up the line in the middle of a transmit command if the timing is just right (or wrong as the case may be). About 50% of the time I can separate the data streams and still process the incoming data. To me this is still a major problem though since the lost data means that HomeSeer may not get a change command and will lose sync with the system. There also have been a few changes to the UI since the last release but I've been waiting for the PLM communications to improve first. Michel, Could the above scenerio be why some people are seeing the comm failures? I saw this on the Homeseer Board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Hi Digger, Unlike HS, ISY does not have to send 100s of commands just to turn on/off a scene. I suspect that this is the cause for most of the communication problems as experienced by HS: if you do not have a correct timing and flow control, then in all likelihood there will be collisions and miscommunications. I really do not think what you are experiecing is equal to what HS is experiencing ... I think the PLM has to become more sensitive and more powerful and that would solve the rest of the comm failures. With kind regards, Michel I also forgot to mention that between the latest firmware and some timing tweaks to the RS232 routines the jams are gone. There is still an issue with lost data during high transmit traffic due to the fact that the PLM still sends received data up the line in the middle of a transmit command if the timing is just right (or wrong as the case may be). About 50% of the time I can separate the data streams and still process the incoming data. To me this is still a major problem though since the lost data means that HomeSeer may not get a change command and will lose sync with the system. There also have been a few changes to the UI since the last release but I've been waiting for the PLM communications to improve first. Michel, Could the above scenerio be why some people are seeing the comm failures? I saw this on the Homeseer Board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Unlike HS, ISY does not have to send 100s of commands just to turn on/off a scene. I suspect that this is the cause for most of the communication problems as experienced by HS: if you do not have a correct timing and flow control, then in all likelihood there will be collisions and miscommunications. I really do not think what you are experiecing is equal to what HS is experiencing ... Are you saying HomeSeer does not support scenes stored on the PLM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Kohanim Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Mike, As far as I know, they do not natively support scenes/groups link management. A scene is a sequence of commands sent one at a time. With kind regards, Michel Unlike HS, ISY does not have to send 100s of commands just to turn on/off a scene. I suspect that this is the cause for most of the communication problems as experienced by HS: if you do not have a correct timing and flow control, then in all likelihood there will be collisions and miscommunications. I really do not think what you are experiecing is equal to what HS is experiencing ... Are you saying HomeSeer does not support scenes stored on the PLM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 As far as I know, they do not natively support scenes/groups link management. A scene is a sequence of commands sent one at a time. Wow, I think that's a major limitation. Even the CQC PLM driver, which was written by a single guy in his own free time over the course of a couple months, supports groups saved to the PLM. I wonder how HomeSeer users control KPL secondary buttons to keep them in sync. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 OK thanks for the quick reply. I havent used Homeseer in ages so I am not sure how it works anymore. SH is supposedly working on the PLM issue and hopefully the comm failures will be addressed as well. Other than that my system is fairly stable (the status lights are out of sync at times but the commands work). Once the status is reliable I can set up my touchscreens for lighting control through the ELK. Hi Digger, Unlike HS, ISY does not have to send 100s of commands just to turn on/off a scene. I suspect that this is the cause for most of the communication problems as experienced by HS: if you do not have a correct timing and flow control, then in all likelihood there will be collisions and miscommunications. I really do not think what you are experiecing is equal to what HS is experiencing ... I think the PLM has to become more sensitive and more powerful and that would solve the rest of the comm failures. With kind regards, Michel I also forgot to mention that between the latest firmware and some timing tweaks to the RS232 routines the jams are gone. There is still an issue with lost data during high transmit traffic due to the fact that the PLM still sends received data up the line in the middle of a transmit command if the timing is just right (or wrong as the case may be). About 50% of the time I can separate the data streams and still process the incoming data. To me this is still a major problem though since the lost data means that HomeSeer may not get a change command and will lose sync with the system. There also have been a few changes to the UI since the last release but I've been waiting for the PLM communications to improve first. Michel, Could the above scenerio be why some people are seeing the comm failures? I saw this on the Homeseer Board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyMike Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Michel, Edited - original question was unfair to the ISY team Can you comment on how the ISY implements RS-232 flow control, or am I stepping on proprietary toes? IM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 After reading some stuff on the HomeSeer forums, I do believe it supports groups stored on the PLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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