Generators

[aLf]

Hi all!

 

I have followed with interest many posts on the forum re: backup generators. I was always from day 1 afraid of the generator and Insteon living together. I had a very bad situation a few weeks ago which I want to share in hopes that someone else can benefit from this.

 

We had another power outage (dozens per year). I had a Generac 12KW unit, vintage 2003. I kept it off as long as possible only to manually power it up after 8-10 hours of no electric. I went into the house to find some VERY bright lights and things making sounds I never heard before. Within a minute, two loud POPS were heard along with bright flashes. Two SWL's blew-big time. I also lost several bulbs on various lights. I IMMEDIATELY shut down the generator. The SWL's were burned really bad and trashed. I disconnected the Generac from the house system and found it to be 300+ volts on the high side, 150's on the low side. Had I not been home to shut it down, I wonder how bad it would have become? That said, the culprit was the voltage regulator which I'm told is on a new revision number. At very least you need to check yours to see if it is old or new style. More important though is that that unit has NO over voltage protection, unbelievable... After changing the VR, it works good now, but my faith is lost. I am trading it in for a new model, a 17 KW with a whole house switch. The new unit is computer controlled and one of the many safeguards is over voltage. Expensive lesson.

 

A gentleman on this forum has a good post on monitoring the newer models. I will unless someone else has a better option, go with his In line linc solution. In a nutshell, all I want is an email from my ISY if the generator comes on. Any other ideas?

 

Thanks for any input,

 

aLf

[apostolakisl]

Sorry for you big PITA issue. Sadly I suspect you have a lot of damaged electronics that are still hanging on by a thread so don't be surprised if you start seeing random failures around the house.

[Teken]

Hi all!

 

I have followed with interest many posts on the forum re: backup generators. I was always from day 1 afraid of the generator and Insteon living together. I had a very bad situation a few weeks ago which I want to share in hopes that someone else can benefit from this.

 

We had another power outage (dozens per year). I had a Generac 12KW unit, vintage 2003. I kept it off as long as possible only to manually power it up after 8-10 hours of no electric. I went into the house to find some VERY bright lights and things making sounds I never heard before. Within a minute, two loud POPS were heard along with bright flashes. Two SWL's blew-big time. I also lost several bulbs on various lights. I IMMEDIATELY shut down the generator. The SWL's were burned really bad and trashed. I disconnected the Generac from the house system and found it to be 300+ volts on the high side, 150's on the low side. Had I not been home to shut it down, I wonder how bad it would have become? That said, the culprit was the voltage regulator which I'm told is on a new revision number. At very least you need to check yours to see if it is old or new style. More important though is that that unit has NO over voltage protection, unbelievable... After changing the VR, it works good now, but my faith is lost. I am trading it in for a new model, a 17 KW with a whole house switch. The new unit is computer controlled and one of the many safeguards is over voltage. Expensive lesson.

 

A gentleman on this forum has a good post on monitoring the newer models. I will unless someone else has a better option, go with his In line linc solution. In a nutshell, all I want is an email from my ISY if the generator comes on. Any other ideas?

 

Thanks for any input,

 

aLf

 

 

Alf,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your personal experience with respect to this generator. I have a few questions for you though as it relates to this incident. How long has the generator been in deployment in your home?

 

Did Generac resolve this issue once you made it known to them that this fault had occurred? What was the cost for the VR device and did you replace it yourself? As apostolakisl stated, I would be keeping an eye on all of the electronics in your home for potential failure.

 

Teken . . .

[aLf]

HI Guys:

 

I built the house new in 2002, I believe the generator went in in 2003. It only has 25 hours on it and the big share of that was exercising! The last time I ran it prior to this ( for actual backup use) was two years ago. I had a garage door opener and Panasonic Network Camera fail that time and I attributed it to the actual electrical storm that took the power out. I now figure it was over-voltaging then as well. I did talk directly with the manufacturer last month. They supplied the new VR at cost and I was billed $100 for the install. I then decided to just change out the entire generator to a new model. The new model not only is computer monitored for all faults, it is also a bit bigger (old-12/new-17KW). It also incorporates a whole house switch rather than the old style 12-breaker switch. I can't give any input yet as it is scheduled to be installed this coming week. Generac gave me a break on the price, however it still is very expensive to me. The price discount was not the big hit, my old unit is worth only $500 according to the dealer!!! I paid over 4K for it in 2003. What can I do? I don't consider the old unit trustworthy. This ordeal set me back a few hundred dollars and a bunch of time replacing switches in Insteon stuff alone. Your comments on watching other stuff is well taken. That said, at least I only had 12 breakers worth of stuff on line rather than the whole house. So far everything else seems fine.

 

I'll follow up with a final read after the new unit goes in. There is another poster on the forum who recently installed this same unit. His posts relate to monitoring the actual state of the generator via Insteon. I have opted (for now) not to complicate the upcoming install with a "home brewed" Insteon ad-on. I will later and maybe one of you electrical guru's will ahve an even better way to accomplish that. (Please take a moment to read his informative posts and leave me feedback on any ideas). For now I just keep my fingers crossed that the install goes well, the unit works as advertised and my stuff stays protected. Textbooks are expensive, real life is even more costly... In the end my biggest problem with the whole thing is that there are tens of thousands of these units out there where folks feel "protected" and in reality their investments and homes are anything but. A voltage regulator is one thing, over-voltage or wrong voltage protection is an absolute must. They spend the money for a low oil pressure shut down, but ignore the bigger picture. Hence the $500 core value.

 

Thanks,

 

aLf

[Teken]

HI Guys:

 

I built the house new in 2002, I believe the generator went in in 2003. It only has 25 hours on it and the big share of that was exercising! The last time I ran it prior to this ( for actual backup use) was two years ago. I had a garage door opener and Panasonic Network Camera fail that time and I attributed it to the actual electrical storm that took the power out. I now figure it was over-voltaging then as well. I did talk directly with the manufacturer last month. They supplied the new VR at cost and I was billed $100 for the install. I then decided to just change out the entire generator to a new model. The new model not only is computer monitored for all faults, it is also a bit bigger (old-12/new-17KW). It also incorporates a whole house switch rather than the old style 12-breaker switch. I can't give any input yet as it is scheduled to be installed this coming week. Generac gave me a break on the price, however it still is very expensive to me. The price discount was not the big hit, my old unit is worth only $500 according to the dealer!!! I paid over 4K for it in 2003. What can I do? I don't consider the old unit trustworthy. This ordeal set me back a few hundred dollars and a bunch of time replacing switches in Insteon stuff alone. Your comments on watching other stuff is well taken. That said, at least I only had 12 breakers worth of stuff on line rather than the whole house. So far everything else seems fine.

 

I'll follow up with a final read after the new unit goes in. There is another poster on the forum who recently installed this same unit. His posts relate to monitoring the actual state of the generator via Insteon. I have opted (for now) not to complicate the upcoming install with a "home brewed" Insteon ad-on. I will later and maybe one of you electrical guru's will ahve an even better way to accomplish that. (Please take a moment to read his informative posts and leave me feedback on any ideas). For now I just keep my fingers crossed that the install goes well, the unit works as advertised and my stuff stays protected. Textbooks are expensive, real life is even more costly... In the end my biggest problem with the whole thing is that there are tens of thousands of these units out there where folks feel "protected" and in reality their investments and homes are anything but. A voltage regulator is one thing, over-voltage or wrong voltage protection is an absolute must. They spend the money for a low oil pressure shut down, but ignore the bigger picture. Hence the $500 core value.

 

Thanks,

 

aLf

 

aLf,

 

I appreciate the feed back and insight. I would humbly suggest that you put the old Generac on sale via EBAY, Craigs List. These dealers are like car dealers, they always try to low ball you when they know the very same item could be sold for more. Please keep us all updated on the new generator and how it performs.

 

Teken . . .

[aLf]

Teken:

 

I gave serious thought to selling it. In the end, I could not sell something to you or anyone that I know could cause the kind of trouble this thing could. Granted, someone will get this "like new" generator installed at their dream home by the dealer, but I can look my maker in the eye knowing I didn't sell it to them! If the manufacturer felt there was a compelling issue (which I don't believe they do), they would have insisted on pulling it from circulation. My morals and ethics are worth more to me than a few extra bucks. I truly believe had I not been home and this thing had run at the voltages it did, my home would have been seriously injured. I hope that anyone with this vintage of generator educate themselves as to what they have and at very least get the new style Voltage Regulator.

 

aLf

[jacobs-gc]

Hello all,

I would like to share my experience with a backup generator and home automation. I have a 40KW Generac backup generator installed in 2001. The installation includes two transfer switches feeding two 200A panels. The generator automatically transfers power, in an outage, after a 45sec generator warm up period. The generator is programmed to exercise once a week for 20min. During the exercise period, the program hot transfers the whole house load to the generator for 5min. In addition, the generator is monitored for defaults and a warning light plus a battery meter are installed inside the house. I set it up this way because I travel a lot and I did not want my wife to have to throw switches in the middle of an outage.

 

I have an ISY/994i IR PRO and 147 Insteon devices installed. During the hot transfers to the generator the ISY/994i works without problems. We have also experienced some extended power outages and the ISY/994i has worked while on generator power, without a hitch.

 

In my case, the ISY/Insteon/PLM and backup generator live well together.

 

Gerry