evarsanyi Posted July 23, 2007 Posted July 23, 2007 I have a scene with 15 responders (many of them are buttons on KPL's) and I'd like to duplicate it 3 more times then edit the copies with different levels (basically the same set of lights, different actual scene). I spent a couple of hours doing this in one area manually (with 3 scenes, ie: dinner, movie, dark), but is a very tedious manual affair. Is there any way to copy/duplicate a scene (leaving any non-responders out of the copy, or perhaps just making any controllers responders unless this would violate the rule one cannot have a controller and responder on the same KPL)? The other thing that would make this less tedious would be something like an 'offline' mode so I could do all the work (manually) but w/o waiting 20-30 sec between each click for the network to catch up -- then once all the editing was done I could just restore the appropriate devices and let that run for 10 minutes w/o me watching it...
Sub-Routine Posted July 23, 2007 Posted July 23, 2007 I believe Michel already stated Copy Group is on the agenda. Something I would like, as well. For now: You can drag-n-drop all the responders at once, then come browse the forum for a few. Setting the levels and rates only takes a few seconds each. Then add the controller and come back to the forum. After the controller is added be sure to select the controller in the scene and click on the Copy Scene Attributes to set all the LLs and RRs you did to the scene earlier to the controlling switch. [edit]Oh, shoot, all that typing and now I realize it may not be the answer you seek. If you are just wanting to have more than one controller for a specific group of devices you can add *** many controllers as you like to a scene and each will have unique LLs & RRs. It's easy to Copy Scene Attributes from a basic setup and then modify specific devices for each controller.[/edit] Personally, I prefer the real-time changes, but an option was requested more than once for my group-creating program so I did implement it. Rand
evarsanyi Posted July 23, 2007 Author Posted July 23, 2007 Ah, I thought I read elsewhere that dragging multiple units was a future feature. That will make it a lot easier. I like the realtime updates too when I'm making tweaks but when setting up a lot of units ("All Lights") its really painful doing it one at a time with enough of a delay you get bored and forget where you are for each one. I'd actually just be happy with an XML import, then I could export the world -- hack on it using my existing scene tools and re-import and set up the system. Then use the ISY UI for moves and changes ongoing. Perhaps I'm being to anal about getting all the right KPL buttons into the right groups or something, but with my mid size (60 units) installation I've spent about 20 hours so far doing setup, most of it spent watching the progress bar spin as I add units to groups.
Sub-Routine Posted July 23, 2007 Posted July 23, 2007 The multiple devices was implemented in 2.3. See my edit in the post above about multiple controllers, your response was too quick for me I hear you on the XML import, isn't that what Restore PLM and Restore Devices is for? Another feature Michel said was on the table. Sorry you missed a week for your ISY... Rand
Michel Kohanim Posted July 25, 2007 Posted July 25, 2007 Rand, Yes, you are 100% correct. The ability to drag/drop multiple devices at a time is in 2.3. evarsanyi, The question I have - and as Rand suggested - is whether or not the different scenes you are creating (for the same devices) are to be controlled by Insteon Controllers within the same scenes or by the scheduler/triggers? If all you are trying to do is to have different on level/ramp rates for each one of the controllers in the scene, then - and as Rand suggested - you can simply put all your responders and controllers in the SAME scene (don't create different scenes) and then change the on level/ramp rate for each one of the responders based on each one of the controllers: 1. Click on each one of the controllers in the scene (in RED) 2. Change the on level and ramp rate for each of the devices in the same scene in the Right Bottom pane Import/Export! Well, since you seem to be quite well versed in Java/programming, may I humbly suggest that you take a crack at our JSDK and implement this functionality (bulk import/export). I am sure you will receive a lot of interest from our little community here. With kind regards, Michel The multiple devices was implemented in 2.3. See my edit in the post above about multiple controllers, your response was too quick for me I hear you on the XML import, isn't that what Restore PLM and Restore Devices is for? Another feature Michel said was on the table. Sorry you missed a week for your ISY... Rand
evarsanyi Posted July 25, 2007 Author Posted July 25, 2007 Aaaaah, that's what the 'copy attributes from scene' is all about. I see now how you must be setting up the link databases in this case (since each controller has to have a seperate responder link in each target you can clearly put differing values in for each). I'll recast this one room in those terms, that's much simpler. The only part that's still wonky about this setup then is when other KPL buttons that are in their own scenes with some of the units are listed as a responder, and the level is 0% for them (and they are in toggle mode) the light doesn't go off when an 'on' is sent to the scene from a non-toggle button (and thus the KPL buttons are now out of sync wrt the loads, to turn them back on from one of these kpl's you have to press the button twice). I was going to use a trigger to send an 'off' but as I mentioned in a previous posting (and you said would be fixed in the next release) you can't make a trigger based on an event, just on a level edge. This will also allow me to set the other buttons on the same KPL sending the non-toggle scene command to the appropriate states.
evarsanyi Posted July 25, 2007 Author Posted July 25, 2007 I started trying to do this but couldn't because it won't let me put 2 controllers off the same KPL into the same scene. Thinking about it a bit this is what drove me to use multiple scenes when I tried to make this work over the weekend, I thought it was oh so clever until I ran into the one KPL where I actually do use the triac to run a load. When you make it possible to do a trigger based on a non-toggle button event (or when I write some code to make this happen from my server, something I might do anyway just so I can link my IR system in again) I'll be able to see the scene be invoked and fixup the stray indicators/loads on the KPL's. Its like smarthome never actually tried to use these things before starting to crank them out in bulk. Given the cost delta to get a flash programmable device vs the BOM cost of the whole KPL unit its just amazing that SH didn't make at least the KPL if not the KPL and the SWL field upgradable. Sorry for the mini-rant, this stuff is so good in general its frustrating the last 5% is broken and pretty much unfixable.
Michel Kohanim Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 evarsanyi, I am so very sorry for the troubles you are experiencing and we'll do our utmost to find workarounds for that 5% which causes so much frustration. Now, for your All Off scene, you can do a simple work-around which we call Aliasing and which does not require triggers + it works around the problem of having controller/responder relationship between KPL load and one/more of its buttons. What we are going to do is to trick the system: 1. Make your KPL Load the controller for the scene (All Off) 2. Remove your KPL button from that scene 3. Use Synchronized Groups to group your KPL button with the KPL load So, this way, when you click on the KPL load, in effect you will control the whole scene where as when you click on the KPL button, you will only control the load for that KPL. The only issue - which we are going to solve in the next release (very ugly workaround) - is that when you click on the KPL button which turns on/off your load, ISY is not going to be notified so the status of your load will be out of synch with ISY while you are in 2.3. With kind regards, Michel I started trying to do this but couldn't because it won't let me put 2 controllers off the same KPL into the same scene. Thinking about it a bit this is what drove me to use multiple scenes when I tried to make this work over the weekend, I thought it was oh so clever until I ran into the one KPL where I actually do use the triac to run a load. When you make it possible to do a trigger based on a non-toggle button event (or when I write some code to make this happen from my server, something I might do anyway just so I can link my IR system in again) I'll be able to see the scene be invoked and fixup the stray indicators/loads on the KPL's. Its like smarthome never actually tried to use these things before starting to crank them out in bulk. Given the cost delta to get a flash programmable device vs the BOM cost of the whole KPL unit its just amazing that SH didn't make at least the KPL if not the KPL and the SWL field upgradable. Sorry for the mini-rant, this stuff is so good in general its frustrating the last 5% is broken and pretty much unfixable.
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