How to tie n ApplianceLinc to an ISY-99 scene

[ronny.kagstrom]

I just purchased an ApplianceLinc - INSTEON Outdoor Plug-In On / Off Appliance Module. I am able to link it to an eight button KPL (button H) and manually turn on or off by pressing "H" button.

 

I am not able to figure out how to link it to a scene on my ISY-99 to automate the on-off. Any suggestions?

[LeeG]

First the manual Set button link should never be done when using an ISY. The ISY is not aware of them and will eventually overlay or delete them.

 

Define one ISY Scene. Add the ApplianceLinc as a Responder to the Scene. If KeypadLinc button H should control the ApplianceLinc add KeypadLinc button H as a Controller of the Scene. Or whatever other device(s) should control the ApplianceLinc should be added to the same Scene as a Controller. An ISY Scene can have multiple Controllers.

[DualBandAid]

Hi there. I understand you don't want to do manual links with an ISY. However, I'm having trouble getting the ISY to even recognize that my ApplianceLinc exists. I hold down the set button for three seconds - the LED just blinks. Isn't it supposed to stay on?

[LeeG]

If the ApplianceLinc is the first to go into linking mode the LED blinks.

 

The more you do manually the more that has to be undone to fix the damage. If the ISY cannot see the Insteon address where it is currently plugged in, there is a comm issue at that location. Move the ApplianceLinc to the PLM plug point and do a New INSTEON Device for the ApplianceLinc. Should work there. If the address cannot be seen under those conditions the device could be defective, the Insteon address could be incorrect.

 

The device(s) that have been used for Set button linking require a Restore Device to get the link database back to normal.

[DualBandAid]

If the ISY cannot see the Insteon address where it is currently plugged in, there is a comm issue at that location.

 

Turns out that was it -- I, at first, didn't think that could be the case since I hadn't had a problem with ANY other devices (and know I have both legs covered) -- and I had also tried it on several outlets. Turns out, the last outlet did the trick.

 

Funny thing, on of the outlets that it was on -- and was not being recognized -- is now the outlet I'm using it on (post set-up) without a problem.

 

So I'm thinking problems are probably on the horizon... OR set-up requires a more robust communication than typical usage does? I think I read somewhere that Insteon makes several attempts to communicate...

[oberkc]

So I'm thinking problems are probably on the horizon... OR set-up requires a more robust communication than typical usage does

 

Possibly both. It has been my experience that programming/linking devices is a bit more complicated communication than simply controlling them once linked. So, a device may have trouble linking in one location when, at the same time, it may work fine once the links are established.

 

I percieve this as a "marginal" communication environment. In such an environments, they may work most of the time, but have greater numbers of missed responses. In such an environment, they may be more succeptible to interference from other devices. They may take longer to respond, requiring greater numbers of repeating commands.

 

Even though you may have this working now, I suggest a continuation of your effort to identify what was causing the initial linking problem.

[DualBandAid]

ApplianceLinc is an RF only device, correct? I'm familiar (I think) with troubleshooting Powerline issues - RF not so much.

 

Is RF interference causes mostly by things like wifi and cordless phones or can "loud" appliances on the line also cause problems?

 

All I have broadcasting in the house is two Apple Airport Time Capsules (wifi routers) and a 2.4 gig cordless phone. And there is SwitchLincs all over - and the house is only 1500 square feet...

[DualBandAid]

Also, would I be correct to assume that the more SwitchLincs I have, the more ability my Insteon signals have to "over-power" any interference? Because I still do have several to add...

[LeeG]

An ApplianceLinc has no RF capability.

 

I agree completely with oberkc suggestion to continue to evaluate communication with the ApplianceLinc at its current location. From the Admin Console, with Tools | Diagnostics | Event viewer running at LEVEL 3, click the Admin Console On and Off buttons for the ApplianceLinc and look at the Hops Left=x count for the various On/Off commands. Hops Left=2 is best, Hops Left=1 is Okay if it is consistent. Hops Left=0 is at the outer edge of working. If Hops Left=x count is not consistent, a 2 sometimes, a 1 sometimes, a 0 sometimes, there is an powerline issue at the ApplianceLinc plug point.

 

The more Insteon devices installed the more reliable the system tends to get because each new device is an additional repeater. There have been cases where several devices powered from the same location on the powerline have caused problems rather than increase reliability but they are the exception.

[DualBandAid]

An ApplianceLinc has no RF capability.

 

Ah. Had that backwards. Thank you for the scoop on how to QC things.

 

I tried to google the meaning of HOPS. Is that some metric of how many times the ISY has tried to communicate to the device?

[oberkc]

Is that some metric of how many times the ISY has tried to communicate to the device?

 

I am not sure that it is always the ISY/PLM has tried, but may also include the times the rest of the devices has repeated the command. In general, I take this as the number of requests, in total, and an indication of communication quality.

[LeeG]

Hops has to do with how many devices will actively repeat a particular message on its travels from the Controller to the Responder. There is an insteondetails.pdf document at insteon.net that goes into detail about hops. Unless you really have in interest in the internal operation of Insteon no need to go there. Just look at it as a metric where 2 is best and 0 is worst. As with many things in Insteon that is not an absolute. Some messages are issued with a Max Hops=1 which means if the message worked the Hops Left count will be 0, so 0 is not always a bad number. The permitted number of Hops (Max Hops) affects the Insteon network performance so some messages start out with a Max Hops=1 to achieve the maximum Insteon network throughput.

 

Again, this is covered in the insteondetails.pdf doc but it is not for everyone.

[DualBandAid]

I def will check it out (when have time) -- I do like to dig deep when I get into something.

 

Did the HOP check. Level 2 at the current location - consistent. When I set up the next one, I'll try to do it in the same outlet that gave me trouble before to see if there's a rinse & repeat. I kinda hope so, actually. I like consistency with stuff like this...

[oberkc]

In case you are not familiar with it, there is also a "scene test" with results based on hop count. If you choose to try the scene test, be sure that there are no programs triggered by any device within the scene-under-test (if so, temporarily disable those programs).

[DualBandAid]

Thanks for the tip on the Insteon details. Reading now. Got the HOPS thing. Maximum of 3 "hops" - or signals from one device to another. First time at bat, 2 hops left. Second time at bat, 1 hop left. Third time...strike out! So you want to hit the ball first time up...which means 2 hops left. And I don't even like baseball....