someguy Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 I have an 8 key keypadlinc that was working well earlier and I was changing some names of buttons, etc. Now it won't work. Here is what I mean: 1) ISY can query the load button and gets it right. 2) I can change the buttons from toggle to non-toggle. 3) I can control the led backlights. 4) When I press the button (with "Non-Toggle ON" setting), the readout in ISY still says "OFF". I've tried factory resetting and then "restore". I tried removing it completely from ISY, then factory reset, then reassociating it and then starting all over and it still doesnt work. any suggestions?
someguy Posted October 22, 2012 Author Posted October 22, 2012 also: I can switch them to toggle mode and get all of them turned off at the keypad, and the ISY won't know what I've changed them to until I query them.
LeeG Posted October 22, 2012 Posted October 22, 2012 When a single device does not show status changes there is a link record problem either in the device or in the PLM (assuming no comm problems). Suggest doing a Show Device Links Table followed by a Compare when display is complete. What is the result of the Compare? What is the ISY firmware level?
someguy Posted October 23, 2012 Author Posted October 23, 2012 When a single device does not show status changes there is a link record problem either in the device or in the PLM (assuming no comm problems). Suggest doing a Show Device Links Table followed by a Compare when display is complete. What is the result of the Compare? What is the ISY firmware level? v3.2.6 ISY My link table looks okay:
LeeG Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 That leaves a problem with the link records in the PLM or a comm problem. Since the KPL can be reached with Direct commands for Query, Backlight LED level, etc that makes the PLM link table the probable cause. Next thing to try is a Restore Modem (PLM) which will compress out all duplicates and rebuild the PLM link table. As a sanity check verify 1C.FB.73 is the PLM Insteon address.
someguy Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 That leaves a problem with the link records in the PLM or a comm problem. Since the KPL can be reached with Direct commands for Query, Backlight LED level, etc that makes the PLM link table the probable cause. Next thing to try is a Restore Modem (PLM) which will compress out all duplicates and rebuild the PLM link table. As a sanity check verify 1C.FB.73 is the PLM Insteon address. okay, Sanity check verified that this is my PLM. I did a "Restore PLM" and nothing is changed. The only way that the ISY knows that I pressed a button on the keypadlinc is if I query the keypadlinc with the ISY and see the change. When I talked to Smarthome about trading out the keypadlinc, the guy said that I needed to have the insteon button as part of a scene for the ISY to know that I pressed the button. It is part of a scene as a responder only. I'm not sure if that helps any. I've got a new unit on the way from smarthome. I hope it works. I appreciate any other ideas.
LeeG Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 When a KeypadLinc is added to the ISY each button is automatically defined as a Controller with the PLM as a Responder. The E201...., E202....., E203....., etc link records in the KeypadLinc are Controller link records pointing to the PLM 1C.FB.73. The PLM will have an A201...., A202...., A203.... etc Responder link records. The only thing I can suggest at this point is to Factory Reset the KeypadLinc, followed by a Restore Device to recreate the link database erased by the Factory Reset.
LeeG Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Are there a large number of devices and Scenes involved? If so run Show PLM Links Table followed by a Count. The Show/Count sequence should be run 3-4 times to be sure the Count is consistent. Any inbound Insteon traffic reaching the PLM will produce a false PLM link record count (too high or too low). What is the Count? This test will make sure the capacity of the PLM has not been exceeded.
oberkc Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 When I talked to Smarthome about trading out the keypadlinc, the guy said that I needed to have the insteon button as part of a scene for the ISY to know that I pressed the button. I use keypad buttons as conditions in programs. These keypad buttons are not part of any scene that I created (besides, apparently, the one described by LeeG as a consequence of adding the keypad to the ISY database). The ISY appears to have no trouble keeping track of status.
someguy Posted October 25, 2012 Author Posted October 25, 2012 When a KeypadLinc is added to the ISY each button is automatically defined as a Controller with the PLM as a Responder. The E201...., E202....., E203....., etc link records in the KeypadLinc are Controller link records pointing to the PLM 1C.FB.73. The PLM will have an A201...., A202...., A203.... etc Responder link records. The only thing I can suggest at this point is to Factory Reset the KeypadLinc, followed by a Restore Device to recreate the link database erased by the Factory Reset. I actually did a factory reset and restore which didnt work. then I removed the device, factory reset it, then reconnected it to ISY and then it still didnt work. I'll see what the new unit does when I get it later this week.
someguy Posted October 27, 2012 Author Posted October 27, 2012 Okay, I got the replacement keypadlinc from Smarthome today and Linked it with ISY. It does the same exact thing. It does NOT report button presses to ISY. The only way that I can let the ISY know the status of the keypadlinc is to go to ask ISY to query it. This must be a bug. I am trying to get ISY to run programs based upon keypadlinc button presses. I need to say that the two 6 button keypadlincs DO report to iSY and work properly. It is these two 8 button ones that don't work properly in this manner. I think this may be a bug with ISY. I am on ISY 3.2.6
LeeG Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Run the PLM tests in my last post. If this is the 'only' device not reporting status changes there is a problem with the PLM link database. The Show Device Links Table from the previous device has the correct link records. The piece that is now in question is the PLM link database. Actually with a different physical device it is necessary to verify the new KeypadLinc link database with a Show Device Links Table and Compare. If that is correct for the new KeypadLinc run the PLM tests described in my previous post.
LeeG Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Agreed. The KeypadLinc link database was correct in the old KeypadLinc and is correct in the new KeypadLinc..
someguy Posted October 27, 2012 Author Posted October 27, 2012 by the way, I upgraded to 3.3.3 and it didn't fix the problem.
someguy Posted October 27, 2012 Author Posted October 27, 2012 Would not expect it to. What do you think is he solution?
LeeG Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Is the PLM a 2412 or 2413? That count is invalid for a 2413. The Show PLM and Count has to be run at least 3-4 times with each producing the same number for the number to be considered accurate. EDIT: sorry, I had missed the PLM post information at the end of page 1.
someguy Posted October 27, 2012 Author Posted October 27, 2012 Is the PLM a 2412 or 2413? That count is invalid for a 2413. The Show PLM and Count has to be run at least 3-4 times with each producing the same number for the number to be considered accurate. EDIT: sorry, I had missed the PLM post information at the end of page 1. It is a brand new 2413S. I am rerunning the counts now.
LeeG Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Indications point to the PLM link database being full. There is no room for the KeypadLinc Responder link records. Consistent PLM record counts showing actual link record count should confirm this.
someguy Posted October 27, 2012 Author Posted October 27, 2012 Indications point to the PLM link database being full. There is no room for the KeypadLinc Responder link records. Consistent PLM record counts showing actual link record count should confirm this. How many is full? smarthome says that 1023 is the number of links that the PLM holds? If this is the problem, then how do I fix it? just get rid of some scenes or something?
LeeG Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 I ran tests on some of my 2413 PLMs many months ago and found that 992 was the maximum. Although the total memory can theoretically hold 1024 link records some of the very low memory is reserved for PLM firmware use. The solution is to reduce the number of Scenes. Combine like Scenes, eliminate Scenes that are no longer being used, etc. Once changes have been implemented a Restore Modem (PLM) has to be run to compress out the deleted link records.
someguy Posted October 27, 2012 Author Posted October 27, 2012 Okay, thank you very much. I'll give that a try. So is it purely scenes that are taking up links? Are scenes with more members or responders taking up more links than others?
LeeG Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Scenes are the only thing that generate link records. Some Scenes are automatically created when a device is added to the ISY. These Scenes are necessary for the ISY to be notified of button/paddle state changes. For example, an 8 button KeypadLinc results in 8 Responder link records being created in the PLM so each button press will be picked up by the PLM. Motion Sensors generate three Responder link records in the PLM so the ISY is aware of motion, dusk/dawn and low battery events. Every node that can send the ISY/PLM a command must have a unique Responder link record in the PLM. These are required by Insteon in general, not specific to the ISY. Other link records are created to support the My Lighting Scene used by the 3 AM QueryAll Program to insure the ISY has the correct device status of all devices. Other link records are created as a result of user generated Scenes. Every device (button/paddle) the Scene controls, Controller or Responder, generates a Controller link record in the PLM. For example, Scene X has 3 Controllers and 6 Responders. There are 9 Controller link records generated in the PLM to support those 9 devices. As with most Insteon things, there are exceptions. Some devices are Controller Only. ControLinc buttons, RemoteLinc buttons, RemoteLinc2 buttons, Motion Sensor nodes, TriggerLinc nodes and others have no Responder function. Adding a RemoteLinc button as a Controller of a Scene does not generate a Controller link record in the PLM as the RemoteLinc button has no Responder function.
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