Getting Communication errors with Insteon Devices

[ssalzman]

I have been using the ISY for several months now with no issues. I was happy to finally have a stable lighting control system. Just this week I added a new device for my exterior malibu lights. I used an Insteon Appliance module. After I installed this module I noticed that my programs were not running anymore or least that is what it seemed like. So I started to debug the problem. From what I can tell, I am now getting communications errors when querying the top level (My Lighting). The errors are random in nature, meaning that different modules come up with errors when doing the query. Nothing in my network has change except for the new appliance moduel which I know have removed but still have issues. Controlling lights through ISY works fine under manual control, I have not seen any issues. I also can control the lights with my various handheld remotes with no issues. I know the programs are running because I am getting my status emails as I normally do. They indicate the action has taken place but when I look the light is still on when it should have went off. I have tried restoring the PLM. I have power cycled the PLM. I have power cycled the ISY. I have reloaded an older configuration with the ISY. None of these things seems to have corrected the problem. Also, the location of the PLM and the ISY has not changed. Any ideas would be great. Thanks.

[Michel Kohanim]

ssalzman,

 

The first obvious question is: what version of PLM do you have? There are a few labels on the back of the PLM one of which is the version.

 

The second question is: besides your appliance module, have you added any other electrical device to your system such as low voltage lighting, CFL, Plasma TV, phone charger, dryer, other X10 devices?

 

I know how frustrating this is and we would do everything in our power to try and isolate the issue which, at the moment, seems to be noise related.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

I have been using the ISY for several months now with no issues. I was happy to finally have a stable lighting control system. Just this week I added a new device for my exterior malibu lights. I used an Insteon Appliance module. After I installed this module I noticed that my programs were not running anymore or least that is what it seemed like. So I started to debug the problem. From what I can tell, I am now getting communications errors when querying the top level (My Lighting). The errors are random in nature, meaning that different modules come up with errors when doing the query. Nothing in my network has change except for the new appliance moduel which I know have removed but still have issues. Controlling lights through ISY works fine under manual control, I have not seen any issues. I also can control the lights with my various handheld remotes with no issues. I know the programs are running because I am getting my status emails as I normally do. They indicate the action has taken place but when I look the light is still on when it should have went off. I have tried restoring the PLM. I have power cycled the PLM. I have power cycled the ISY. I have reloaded an older configuration with the ISY. None of these things seems to have corrected the problem. Also, the location of the PLM and the ISY has not changed. Any ideas would be great. Thanks.

[ssalzman]

My ISY sticker on the back is (ISY/00001132).

 

Through the console interface here is the information it reports on revision:

 

App: Insteon_UD

Platform: ISY-C-2

Version: 2.6

Build Date: 2007-12-09-16:58:29

 

I have tried isolating any electrical issues by unplugging things in my office where the ISY is but it does not seem to make a difference. I just do not know what has changed in this last week.

[MikeB]

Check the version of the PLM (not the ISY itself). There should be a sticker on the underside of it.

[ssalzman]

Sorry about that, I meant to add that as well:

 

Modem #2412S

 

small Label on left had side of unit next to address

V2.0

0600

 

Small label below Address

3207Firm52

Rev 2.4

[Michel Kohanim]

Hello again,

 

I cannot guarantee that this would help but the only way to isolate the issue is to actually use the latest PLM as it seems your PLM is locking up under heavy traffic.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Sorry about that, I meant to add that as well:

 

Modem #2412S

 

small Label on left had side of unit next to address

V2.0

0600

 

Small label below Address

3207Firm52

Rev 2.4

[ssalzman]

Michel,

 

I understand, so do you think I should purchase a new one? Since I bought this PLM as part of a kit with the ISY from Smarthome within the last year I think they would replace it for me at no charge.

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi,

 

I think they would replace it for you given the fact that you are experiencing intermittent lock ups.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

Michel,

 

I understand, so do you think I should purchase a new one? Since I bought this PLM as part of a kit with the ISY from Smarthome within the last year I think they would replace it for me at no charge.

[ssalzman]

Just curious, have seen this issue before with PLMs of this vintage? Everything was working great and then automation stopped. I guess I am not sure why the PLM works if I turn lights on and off manually through the ISY and the PLM does not work during program times????

[Michel Kohanim]

Hi sslazman,

 

Yes, I have seen this first hand. During program times, you might be turning on/off scenes which generate a lot of traffic. Some of the older version PLMs (52 and below) used to have lock up issues when confronted with a lot of traffic.

 

With kind regards,

Michel

 

Just curious, have seen this issue before with PLMs of this vintage? Everything was working great and then automation stopped. I guess I am not sure why the PLM works if I turn lights on and off manually through the ISY and the PLM does not work during program times????

[Guest]

When you added the lighting did you add a GFCI? If so try disconnecting the GFCI and see if the problem goes away. SOMETIMES a GCI can cause a signal antenuation that is enough to effect the PLM communications but not other devices.

[IndyMike]

Just curious, have seen this issue before with PLMs of this vintage? Everything was working great and then automation stopped. I guess I am not sure why the PLM works if I turn lights on and off manually through the ISY and the PLM does not work during program times????

 

Hello ssalzman,

 

I had "lockup" problems with the same revision PLM when my system grew to 30 devices. The PLM began to lockup roughly 1-2 times per week. The difference, as I see it, is that my PLM would go completely silent and require a power cycle to recover. From your original post, I did not see where you were encountering "lockups" in the sense that I know them. Additionally, I was not getting query errors (other than when the PLM was locked).

 

I RMA'd my PLM and received a Rev 2.75 unit with the extended memory. It's been roughly 4 weeks and I have not had a lockup. The new unit appears to be far better equipped to handle high levels of traffic.

 

However (yeah there's always one of these) the new PLM is not a cure all. It will not necessarily cure communication issues (Digger can attest to this).

 

While I was "growing" my system I encountered sporadic communications problems at two different times:

 

1) I have a mixed Insteon/X10 system and was using a "Insteon Blessed" BoosterLinc to improve the X10 level (you didn't mention whether you were using X10). After adding a couple of new Insteon modules I began encountering communication faults all around the house. I traced this to the BoosterLinc which appeared to be trying to "boost" the Insteon signals.

 

Thinking that my original "Boosterlinc" went belly up, I RMA'd and received another (same revision). Identical results - with over 25 Insteon devices installed, I can no longer install the Boosterlinc without destroying Insteon communication.

 

2) At a later point in time we had a "winter thunderstorm" roll through. Afterward I again experienced severe communications failures. These were far less random than with the boosterlinc - there were some devices that would fail 50% of the time. I found that my signalincs were no longer communicating. After re-setting (power cycle), things returned to normal - I have since installed a passive coupler at the panel.

 

Some final notes - it doesn't always take a "new" installed device to cause problems. Things age, and as they do their noise signature can increase in level or shift frequency. I had a photocell in a post light that drove me nuts for two weeks before it finally popped the GFCI (allowing me to locate the problem).

 

I have also seen test results from multiple CFL's that produce "beat" frequency in the insteon range (these devices age as well).

 

The best way to troubleshoot this type of problem - start popping breakers.

 

IM

[upstatemike]

I found that my signalincs had lost their link. After re-linking, things returned to normal - I have since installed a passive coupler at the panel.

 

How do signalincs lose their links? I thought they were just RF repeaters that do not link to anything? (The setup process just ensures they are on opposite AC legs).

[IndyMike]

How do signalincs lose their links? I thought they were just RF repeaters that do not link to anything? (The setup process just ensures they are on opposite AC legs).

 

Wow - major brain methane on my part. I've corrected the post.

 

Thanks for keeping me honest Upstate,

 

IM

[ssalzman]

Thanks for all the posts on this issue. Well I found some new things since my last post. I used to have X10 devices but stopped using them a few years ago since they were not reliable in my house. Never understood why. When Insteon came around I start building a new system. What I forgot though was that I put a booster/line coupler near my main breaker panel. I removed it and my Insteon network is back to working without Query issues and my programs are running fine.

 

I got my new PLM today (or should I say old new one). It looks like the PLM that Smarthome sent me is an older revision than the one I have. I had a V2.0 and they sent me V1.75. I even asked about this during my call with them but something got messed up. There are so many stickers on the back of these PLMs I am really not sure which one is telling me the revision. Does anyone know?

 

Thanks

Scot

[Stowaway]

First time posting here... but I am a long term user of X10 and now Insteon. Just started my 99IR/Pro!

 

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to confirm that you SHOULD NOT USE YOUR PLM ON A GFCI protected circuit.

 

I was experencing "failed requests" and "failed queries" on several different devices as well as "communication failures" which gave the big red "!" on the console for specific devices. With lots of troubleshooting advice from Michel, I finally figured out that I needed to move my PLM to a socket on an entirely different circuit.

 

Michel confirmed that GFCI circuit breaker's can cause these problems.

 

Voila - now I am up and working.

 

JIM