Unreliable Insteon performance. Going crazy trying to solve

[nowandthen]

In a nut shell, I do not seem to have adequate phase coupling. A circuit on the opposite phase of the PLM is not very reliable. Lights fail to turn on (or off) about 1 out of 8 times. Sometimes one of two lamplincs (non RF) plugged into the same socket fails to respond. (One responds the other does not).

 

I have two 2477D RF switchlincs on the problem circuit (on phase 1). The PLM is on phase 2. I added a new 2477D on the on phase 1 (about 3' away from the PLM) but still no luck. Note this new 2477D is not on the problem circuit but is on the same phase as the problem circuit. I was hoping the RF from the PLM would jump to phase 1 then carry to the other circuit on that same phase. But no luck. I even plugged in a dual band lamplinc next to the PLM in case the PLM RF was not working (isn't the PLM dual band?) I would think The PLM and/or lamplinc on phase 2 would couple to the 2477D only 3' away on phase 1. The sub panel is within 3' of the PLM and 1' of the 2477D so minimal runs to the panel to distribute the signal.

 

I have an amplifier bridge from my X-10 days. With or without this amplifier bridge enabled seems to make no difference.

 

I have a decent distribution of RF devices but this circuit continues to give me fits.

 

I used an extension cord an plugged the PLM into the problem circuit. It seems to be reliable now but a circuit on the opposite phase is now intermittent. I also plugged the PLM into a different circuit but on the same phase as the problem circuit and it seems to be reliable (but a circuit on the opposite phase is now intermittent).

 

So clearly I have a coupling issue. What do I need to do? I'm going crazy. Shouldn't any RF device couple to another? I have at least a dozen RF devices and made sure they were not all on one phase.

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[nowandthen]

I have a Leviton 6201 amplifier/coupler but seems to do no good if on or off.

[Goose66]

I have two access point plugged into opposite phases and synched. I have 4 access points in all. I have approx. 30 Insteon devices. I also have the Leviton coupler in my breaker panel. I have very poor performance in Insteon. Both cross-phase and in-phase. Insteon is no more reliable for me than X10, and it seems that the more devices I added, the worse the performance was. There is absolutely no troubleshooting methods or devices available. I am now convinced that PLM control just will never be reliable enough for the masses. Just can't bring myself to invest yet again into something different, such as Zigbee.

[oberkc]

I agree with kingwr that there are few troubleshooting devices available. There are sometimes clues. The ISY offers some tools to quantify communication between devices. There are, however, few tools that I am aware of that actually positively identify problem-causing devices.

 

So clearly I have a coupling issue. What do I need to do? I'm going crazy. Shouldn't any RF device couple to another? I have at least a dozen RF devices and made sure they were not all on one phase.

Yes, your description does tend to suggest a coupling issue. The only question I have is HOW you made sure they were not all on one phase. Did you perform the test that is included with the device instructions? Even if you know they are on different phases by circuit panel design, you must make sure they can communicate via RF. If a lot of your dual-band devices are in metal electrical boxes, I am not sure that this can be assumed. If you have not done so already, make sure you perform the phase check.

 

I have an amplifier bridge from my X-10 days. With or without this amplifier bridge enabled seems to make no difference.

Some of these, I understand, are not compatible with insteon and can actually make things worse. I would keep it uninstalled unless you know it is compatible.

 

How old are your oldest insteon devices? There were versions a few years ago that were known problems. I think they were known as v.35 or something like that.

[Teken]

First thing is to purchase a Access Point (AP) to couple both legs of the electrical feed in your home. You can find them being sold daily for $19.XX on EBAY. I don't care what anyone has ever told you about any of the other dual band devices.

 

But, the AP is the strongest of them all with respect to RF output. Once you have confirmed the 4 tap test to verify proper coupling.

 

Go and unplug every piece of equipment in your homes. Now, go back and check with the ISY and see how many hops it takes to complete any single task. If things are good to go, than progress by adding one piece of electrical equipment until you see a fault.

 

Once identified, place that device on a filter . . .

 

Going this route will resolve 99% of what ails you, trust me. The only other factor is bad equipment and that is harder to detect and diagnose.

 

Teken . . .

[ergodic]

Teken is absolutely right. Without access points I think you are bound to have issues. I don't believe SmartHome even supports a configuration without APs on both legs. I can't say for certain this problem is due to that of course, but you have to start there.

 

I have two APs dropped directly down from the panel. I also have a passive coupler between them. The coupler is a leftover that's too hard to remove, but - like your experience - it makes no difference to Insteon whether it's connected or not.

 

My PLM is near the panel, but plugged through a Filterlinc. This forces it to communicate to the APs via RF only, and that configuration has been much more reliable overall.

 

Now, if I pull one of the APs, I get pretty much exactly the situation you describe. Communication on that side of power becomes problematic. Oddly, it's mostly the devices that are closest to the panel. (I know this because it actually happened a few weeks ago. The breaker on that AP tripped when I was working on something else and I didn't realize it.)

 

I have a total of about 80-some devices overall, a fair number now dual-band. But still, without those two APs operating, things don't work well.

 

For an average-sized home, 2 APs are all you need.

[nowandthen]

Thanks for all the tips. I will purchase two access points and give that a try. Smarthome sells an Insteon hardwired phase coupler model 2406H. Would that be a better way to go than the access points? Maybe do both?

 

I have some old X-10 phase couplers, anyone know if these work?

 

I have two Leviton X-10 noise filters. Are these effective for Insteon?

 

I dread having to unplug every electronic device but it likely will come down to that.

 

Thanks again for the help.

[LeeG]

Access Points are better in most cases. The wired coupler is passive. Whatever signal reaches the coupler is placed on the other 120v leg at the same signal level. If the signal has been degraded getting to the power panel it starts out degraded on the other 120v leg. Access Points actively repeat the signal on the other leg so the signal starts out at maximum level.

[IndyMike]

Hello nowandthen,

 

Sorry this is long - making up for lost time....

 

In a nut shell, I do not seem to have adequate phase coupling. A circuit on the opposite phase of the PLM is not very reliable. Lights fail to turn on (or off) about 1 out of 8 times. Sometimes one of two lamplincs (non RF) plugged into the same socket fails to respond. (One responds the other does not).

 

When you say that the lights do not respond:

1) do they physically not turn on/off (indicates the modules can't hear the PLM)?

2) or do the lights respond properly but the ISY indicates a communication error (indicates the PLM can't hear the modules)?

3) do the 2477D devices on the problem circuit respond?

 

I have two 2477D RF switchlincs on the problem circuit (on phase 1). The PLM is on phase 2. I added a new 2477D on the on phase 1 (about 3' away from the PLM) but still no luck. Note this new 2477D is not on the problem circuit but is on the same phase as the problem circuit. I was hoping the RF from the PLM would jump to phase 1 then carry to the other circuit on that same phase. But no luck. I even plugged in a dual band lamplinc next to the PLM in case the PLM RF was not working (isn't the PLM dual band?) I would think The PLM and/or lamplinc on phase 2 would couple to the 2477D only 3' away on phase 1. The sub panel is within 3' of the PLM and 1' of the 2477D so minimal runs to the panel to distribute the signal.

 

The 2412S PLM is powerline only. The 2413S is dual band.

 

Your setup with the dualband devices should have worked. Options are -

1) Your 2477D isn't really on the opposite phase (don't mean to be insulting here). I don't have a lot of experience (or confidence) with the Insteon "tap" method of verifying phases for dual band devices. Simple inspection of the breaker panel has served me well. When all else fails, a voltmeter is infallible (240V = opposite phases).

2) You have metal boxes and the 2477D isn't receiving the RF reliably. Can the PLM communicate reliably with this device?

3) You have a heavy load on the circuit with the 2477D and the signal isn't making it to your problem circuit.

 

What happens if you reverse the 2477D and the PLM?

 

I used an extension cord an plugged the PLM into the problem circuit. It seems to be reliable now but a circuit on the opposite phase is now intermittent. I also plugged the PLM into a different circuit but on the same phase as the problem circuit and it seems to be reliable (but a circuit on the opposite phase is now intermittent).

 

So clearly I have a coupling issue. What do I need to do? I'm going crazy. Shouldn't any RF device couple to another? I have at least a dozen RF devices and made sure they were not all on one phase.

 

Nice job of troubleshooting. You now know that if you can get enough powerline signal to the devices they are reliable.

 

I honestly don't have a lot of experience with the dual band devices. I have two dual band Lamplincs on the same circuit (no phase coupling there). My coupling is through a passive X10 coupler at the panel (4500 sq foot house).

 

I would think that 12 dual band devices would be massive overkill for most installations. Is there any chance you have a source of 900 MHz RF interference (phones, monitors, intercoms)?

 

Smarthome sells an Insteon hardwired phase coupler model 2406H. Would that be a better way to go than the access points? Maybe do both?

 

The 2406H is an X10 coupler. It does work well and will always work regardless of noise, RF interference, etc. As Lee pointed out, it will not amplify.

 

I have some old X-10 phase couplers, anyone know if these work?

Most likely yes. Please post the model #. Insteon uses non-inverting couplers. There were some X10 couplers that inverted the output signal.

 

I have two Leviton X-10 noise filters. Are these effective for Insteon?

Again, most likely yes. Leviton offered both lowpass and bandpass X10 filters. Both should be effective for Insteon.

 

Last question - have any V.35 devices installed?

[nowandthen]

Thanks Mike!

 

Hello nowandthen,

 

When you say that the lights do not respond:

1) do they physically not turn on/off (indicates the modules can't hear the PLM)?

2) or do the lights respond properly but the ISY indicates a communication error (indicates the PLM can't hear the modules)?

3) do the 2477D devices on the problem circuit respond?

 

1) They physically do not turn on.

2) I didn't look at the ISY.

3) I don't have any programs controlling the 2477Ds, two of them make up a 3-way circuit which has been reliable. I just now added a line to the program (did not add them to the scene) and they seem to be completely reliable. I set off the motion sensor (which runs the program) about 20-25 times. The 2477Ds always worked. The problem lamp module failed about 4 times and one of two lamp modules plugged into the same receptacle failed a couple of times (weird, as they're plugged into the same receptacle).

 

The 2412S PLM is powerline only. The 2413S is dual band.

 

I just checked, I have the 2413S

 

Your setup with the dualband devices should have worked. Options are -

1) Your 2477D isn't really on the opposite phase (don't mean to be insulting here). I don't have a lot of experience (or confidence) with the Insteon "tap" method of verifying phases for dual band devices. Simple inspection of the breaker panel has served me well. When all else fails, a voltmeter is infallible (240V = opposite phases).

2) You have metal boxes and the 2477D isn't receiving the RF reliably. Can the PLM communicate reliably with this device?

3) You have a heavy load on the circuit with the 2477D and the signal isn't making it to your problem circuit.

 

What happens if you reverse the 2477D and the PLM?

 

1) Never tried the tap method, but I wired this house, the 2477D is on the opposite phase I can see by the breaker locations.

 

2) All boxes are plastic. PLM is in communications closet, lots of wires etc. but a dual band on opposite phase is less than 3' away.

 

3) This may be the problem. Guess i need to unplug everything and check performance as suggested earlier.

 

Nice job of troubleshooting. You now know that if you can get enough powerline signal to the devices they are reliable.

 

I honestly don't have a lot of experience with the dual band devices. I have two dual band Lamplincs on the same circuit (no phase coupling there). My coupling is through a passive X10 coupler at the panel (4500 sq foot house).

 

I would think that 12 dual band devices would be massive overkill for most installations. Is there any chance you have a source of 900 MHz RF interference (phones, monitors, intercoms)?

 

I really hadn't intended to overdo the dual bands but Smarthome seems to be moving all devices to dual band. No choice anymore.

 

 

The 2406H is an X10 coupler. It does work well and will always work regardless of noise, RF interference, etc. As Lee pointed out, it will not amplify.

 

OK, they label it as SignaLinc - INSTEON Phase Coupler, Hardwired

 

I have some old X-10 phase couplers, anyone know if these work?

Most likely yes. Please post the model #. Insteon uses non-inverting couplers. There were some X10 couplers that inverted the output signal.

 

The units are in a jbox in the attic, on a part of the house wiring unrelated to this problem, I'm not going to pull them to check model number right now. I'll not buy any signaLincs.

 

I have two Leviton X-10 noise filters. Are these effective for Insteon?

Again, most likely yes. Leviton offered both lowpass and bandpass X10 filters. Both should be effective for Insteon.

 

Last question - have any V.35 devices installed?

 

I clicked through all my devices in the ISY. I do not see any V.35 devices. The non-RF lamp modules are V.3. Other device versions vary, but nothing specifically V.35.

[nowandthen]

Access Points are better in most cases. The wired coupler is passive. Whatever signal reaches the coupler is placed on the other 120v leg at the same signal level. If the signal has been degraded getting to the power panel it starts out degraded on the other 120v leg. Access Points actively repeat the signal on the other leg so the signal starts out at maximum level.

I ordered two phase couplers. I'm hoping this along with identifying and isolating signal sucking devices will cure the problem. I remember hunting down signal sucking devices with my X-10 installation. Just hoped Insteon would be more robust, supposedly the more devices you add the stronger the system, unlike X-10. Thanks Lee, good information!

[IndyMike]

Hello nowandthen,

 

When you say that the lights do not respond:

1) do they physically not turn on/off (indicates the modules can't hear the PLM)?

2) or do the lights respond properly but the ISY indicates a communication error (indicates the PLM can't hear the modules)?

3) do the 2477D devices on the problem circuit respond?

 

1) They physically do not turn on.

2) I didn't look at the ISY.

3) I don't have any programs controlling the 2477Ds, two of them make up a 3-way circuit which has been reliable. I just now added a line to the program (did not add them to the scene) and they seem to be completely reliable. I set off the motion sensor (which runs the program) about 20-25 times. The 2477Ds always worked. The problem lamp module failed about 4 times and one of two lamp modules plugged into the same receptacle failed a couple of times (weird, as they're plugged into the same receptacle).

 

Sorry for the long list of questions. Item #3 above indicates that your 2477D's are likely responding to the RF (either from the PLM or another RF device). For some reason, they are not simulcasting the information to the lamp modules.

 

This isn't the first time I've seen this type of problem posted. At this point I would ask that you use one of your Leviton filters to isolate the PLM from the powerline. This will force the PLM to use RF only for communication. This has worked for others, and I can't give you a good reason why. If this does work for your installation, and you happen to be in the N. Indiana/S. Michigan area, let me know. I'd love to come over with an Oscilloscope to try to figure out why it works.

 

IM

[nowandthen]

 

Sorry for the long list of questions. Item #3 above indicates that your 2477D's are likely responding to the RF (either from the PLM or another RF device). For some reason, they are not simulcasting the information to the lamp modules.

 

This isn't the first time I've seen this type of problem posted. At this point I would ask that you use one of your Leviton filters to isolate the PLM from the powerline. This will force the PLM to use RF only for communication. This has worked for others, and I can't give you a good reason why. If this does work for your installation, and you happen to be in the N. Indiana/S. Michigan area, let me know. I'd love to come over with an Oscilloscope to try to figure out why it works.

 

IM

 

Mike You nailed it! Isolating the PLM with the Leviton filter appears to have fixed the problem. A perfect 25 out of 25 test cycles. I routinely get a failure at 8-10 test cycles!

 

Thank you very much. I appreciate your help!

 

I would love to take advantage of your offer to analyze my Insteon weirdness but I live in California.

 

Again, thanks for your help and thanks to all that replied to this thread.

 

Happy holidays!

[oberkc]

Were this happening at my house, I cannot help but suspect that I would want to continue to find out why the powerline communication has apparently failed. What other devices are on the circuit with the PLM?

[nowandthen]

Were this happening at my house, I cannot help but suspect that I would want to continue to find out why the powerline communication has apparently failed. What other devices are on the circuit with the PLM?

 

I intend to continue to troubleshoot this issue. I have not yet unplugged other electronic devices to see if I can isolate the culprit(s). I'm just thrilled to have reliable performance for now - preparing for the holidays...

[ergodic]

I have to tell you I honestly wouldn't spend a lot of time on it.

 

Having walked it more than once, I can tell you madness lies down that road. You'll do a test and conclude that device A is the problem. Then you'll do another test that proves conclusively that device A is working just fine.

 

At one point I had a box with a KPL and SL dimmer at the top of my stairway. Both nutted to the same wires and both connected to incandescent loads. The KPL was reliable, the SL wasn't. An ISY restore-device on the SL dimmer would fail about half the time. Swapping loads had no effect. OK, so I trundle my bundle over to the SH factory store, get a brand new SL dimmer and replace that nastly old "bad" one. Same exact problem, the swap had no effect on the problem at all. And that old, "bad" dimmer? Working just fine now in my garage.

 

I stumbled into the "isolated PLM" configuration about a year ago, testing different configurations to try and fix that. It not only cured that problem, it took my overall reliability up to 95%+. Then replacing my PLM with the latest rev took it up to 99%+ I can't even recall the last time I had a scene fail, though it does still happen once in a great while.

 

So I've more or less come to the conclusion that some of these intractable comm issues often have as much to do with Insteon protocol design and specific firmware interactions as anything, and you'll never puzzle that out. (What I call the Insteon "X" factor.)

 

If you do want to seriously delve into it, get HouseLinc 2, which is the only tool that really allows you to run low-level Insteon comm tests. But be prepared to be sometimes baffled by some of the results you get.

 

I also want to suggest again that you get a couple of APs and install them on each leg of your power. I have over 20 dual-mode devices and a passive coupler. But still if I pull either AP, I get sporadically unreliable comm. on that leg. The general thinking is that the APs put out a stronger signal than the devices do. I'm not convinced that's the whole story, but either way having them won't hurt.

[nowandthen]

Ergodic, timely advice (well actually, I read this about 3 hours too late).

 

This evening I was determined to find the offender(s). I unplugged everything I could think of, TV's, stereos, power strips. automatic cat feeder, automatic litter box, microwave, router, alarm system and on and on. No luck.

 

The scene controls devices on multiple circuits, all respond reliably yet this one circuit refuses to play nice. It is the only circuit in the scene that's on the opposite phase. For some reason the signal does not jump the phases reliably even though I have multiple dual-band devices.

 

I ordered two APs. I have two sub-panels in my home. Do I need four access points? Please note, the problem circuit and all circuits in the problem scene are fed by one sub-panel. Didn't want to bring up the second sub-panel to avoid muddying the waters.

 

Until the APs arrive, I've gone back to forcing the PLM to communicate only via RF. I'll try power line after installing the APs, but if the problem persists, I'll go back to isolating the PLM.

 

Thanks!

[ergodic]

I have never found a situation where more than 2 APs did anything more than the two I have at the panel.

 

Subpanels should not be an issue. I have two, and another panel with an automatic transfer switch for a Generac. As long as they're all properly connected the signal from the APs on each leg should have no problem moving around.

 

I've occasionally tried adding an AP near a trouble spot but it has never made any detectable difference.

 

My little hovel is only about 2500 sq ft, 2 story and a patio. So nothing here is very far signal-wise from anything else. If you have a distance issue (granny flat, detached shop, McMansion, whatever) in your place then additional APs might be needed to handle the signal loss. Otherwise don't bother.

 

IndyMike (I think) has observed that the older APs seem to inject a bit more signal than the newer ones.

 

Understand that placing the PLM behind a filter is only eliminating powerline comm. to/from the PLM. This seems to avoid some sort of dual-mesh confusion in PLM/ISY traffic - at least in my setup. Other devices past the PLM filter can and will and should still talk with each other over the powerline.

 

Interestingly, the older-firmware 2413 PLM I have doesn't exhibit as much improvement with this configuration as the later rev that I have (V.99). So you may want to check and see what rev PLM you have.

 

So I would retain that PLM configuration permanently unless you find it doesn't work well for you.

[nowandthen]

How do I find the PLM version?

[LeeG]

Tools | Diagnostics | PLM Info/Status

[tedbusen]

I was having similiar issues. Read many threads in the forums. Finally solved my issues. Here are the steps I took.

1. Updated all older version devices.

2. Put filter lincs on all my UPS devices, TV's, Dish Receiver, Refrigerators, Hot Water Circulation Pump, power strips, and room air filters.

3. Replaced the 2 older Access Points with the new Dual Band.

4. Updated to the newest ISY994i and the new PLM

5. Factory Reset the PLM and followed the procedures to make sure the PLM was "restored" from the ISY.

I am on firmware v3.3.4.

 

In the process of replacing the older (2d) keypadlincs, I found a loose neutral in one of them. The neutral was in the wire nut, but pulled out as I was removing it from the switch box.

I figure that it has been arcing at times and generating alot of noise. It was one of the keypad lincs I have had trouble with for a long time.

 

Since I have taken these steps, life is great. Everything is working great.

The next thing I am going to do, based on something I read today, is remove the couplers I have in the circuit panel and rely on the 2 New Dual Band Access Points to cover both phases. The article stated that the couplers will pass on any noise where the AP's won't.

 

Thanks for all the inputs to the forum and all the hard work the ISY team is doing.

[IndyMike]

Hello Ted,

 

Glad to hear that you are having success with your (substantial) efforts.

 

The post regarding passive couplers passing noise may have been mine. I believe in listing all the pros and cons of a device/method.

 

Depending on the model coupler you are using, I believe that the pros of a passive coupler outweigh the cons. I've been using a passive coupler since the beginning of Insteon as my only means of coupling. While I do not recommend this for everyone, I see benefits in having the coupler with little risk of problems.

 

Could you please post back your coupler model. There are some differences between models/manufacturers.

[SunSentry]

I have very poor performance in Insteon. Both cross-phase and in-phase. Insteon is no more reliable for me than X10, and it seems that the more devices I added, the worse the performance was.

 

Hmmmm, for some number of months, I have been thinking the same thing. For the past 5 years I had about 20 X10 switches in the home and everything worried absolutely perfectly and reliable EVERY TIME EVERY DAY. Even with having 3 Plasma TVs in the home which are notorious for causing problems, it did not affect my system. Since going to Insteon, things have been less reliable. I think it is just a matter of working out a few quirks which we plan to do over the holidays. For the most part, everything works fine, but occassionally a light won't come on when it is programmed. I am not asking for help since I know how to track down these problems. I am basically just sharing the comment of kingwr.

 

I'll say that a couple of the reasons why I think my X10 system worked so flawlessly is that we have a large whole house surge protection system built into the service panel, and more importantly, we had a cross phase SignalLinc Repeater (Smarthome model 4826B) plugged into the clothes dryer electrical socket in the laundry area. When going to Insteon, I removed that unit along with the a couple of the BoosterLinc devices we had around the house because I am thinking they are probably not compatible.

 

Don't get me wrong. I do love the many good advantages of Insteon and ISY as compared to X10 and I'm sure that we will get a couple of the quirkly comm issues worked out. I love a challenge when it comes to electronics.

[nowandthen]

Added two access points as suggested. Can't say that anything improved. (Problem is with circuits off one sub-panel. I have two sub-panels in the house).

 

I moved one access point to a circuit on the other panel, and I think the access points have improved performance between the panels. But this may be due to the Leviton 6284s that are on my sub-panels.

 

The Leviton 6284 is on each sub-panel to keep X-10 in and X-10 out. I have active and passive couplers between the panels. X-10 worked well. As I am no longer concerned about any neighbors X-10 getting into my system, so I disconnected the power from the Leviton filter on the problem panel, but have not yet removed the filter as I have to turn off power to the entire house to disconnect the neutral wire. However, it is no longer powered so it should be inert, right? It seems performance improved but not 100%. I need to reconnect it to see if it was affecting performance. Maybe its just a coincidence. Not sure why the Leviton filter on the main neutral wire would interfere with signals within the sub-panel (signals are not traveling through the filter).

 

I then changed out the three non-dual band lamp modules with dual-band. At first it appeared that this fixed the problem, but alas I still have instances where the lights do not turn off.

 

I added a wait and an additional Off to the program. Not ideal but so far it works. I don't like having to so this. The Christmas lights are triggered by a motion sensor (sunset-to-sunrise next day), and when I leave for work before sun-up I don't want some of the lights running all day.

 

Plugging the ISY PLM into a noise filter, so far, has given me the best results, however I still have my hot water recirculation pump running off X-10 (I like the X-10 "clunk" sound when the appliance module turns on). Obviously with the PLM plugged into the filter it won't pass X-10.

 

I wish I could figure this out, but I have unplugged everything I can think of to no avail. I guess I need to use an Insteon appliance module for my hot water recirculation pump and neuter (filter) the PLM.

[nowandthen]

Added two access points as suggested. Can't say that anything improved. (Problem is with circuits off one sub-panel. I have two sub-panels in the house).

 

I moved one access point to a circuit on the other panel, and I think the access points have improved performance between the panels. But this may be due to the Leviton 6284s that are on my sub-panels.

 

The Leviton 6284 is on each sub-panel to keep X-10 in and X-10 out. I have active and passive couplers between the panels. X-10 worked well. I am no longer concerned about any neighbors X-10 getting into my system, so I disconnected the power from the Leviton filter on the problem panel, but have not yet removed the filter as I have to turn off power to the entire house to disconnect the neutral wire. However, it is no longer powered so it should be inert, right? It seems performance improved but not 100%. I need to reconnect it to see if it was affecting performance. Maybe its just a coincidence. Not sure why the Leviton filter on the main neutral wire would interfere with signals within the sub-panel (signals are not traveling through the filter).

 

I then changed out the three non-dual band lamp modules with dual-band. At first it appeared that this fixed the problem, but alas I still have instances where the lights do not turn off (or on).

 

I added a wait and an additional Off to the program. Not ideal but so far it works. I don't like having to do this. The Christmas lights are triggered by a motion sensor (sunset-to-sunrise next day), and when I leave for work before sun-up I don't want some of the lights running all day.

 

Plugging the ISY PLM into a noise filter, so far, has given me the best results, however I still have my hot water recirculation pump running off X-10 (I like the X-10 "clunk" sound when the appliance module turns on). I have an X-10 switch in the bathroom that triggers a program to run the recirculation pump for 90 seconds. Obviously with the PLM plugged into the filter it won't pass X-10.

 

I wish I could figure this out, but I have unplugged everything I can think of to no avail. I guess I need to use an Insteon appliance module for my hot water recirculation pump and neuter (filter) the PLM.