jellis Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Hi everyone, Could someone provide their input on whether it is possible to use a flow meter, such as this one: http://www.swissflow.com/sf800.html, within the ISY. At minimal I would like to be able to count the "ticks" or rather rotations and store them within a variable. I will keep it simple for now and stop there. Thanks of your input on this!
Vyrolan Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Could someone provide their input on whether it is possible to use a flow meter, such as this one: http://www.swissflow.com/sf800.html, within the ISY. At minimal I would like to be able to count the "ticks" or rather rotations and store them within a variable. I will keep it simple for now and stop there. I think it will be quite a feat to accomplish this... The flow meter would have to be hooked up to something to interpret its output and somehow get those values into the ISY. Most Insteon sensor stuff is not analog, just on and off. For example if you setup a way to connect one of these to an IOLinc, you could get to a point where if the flow was higher than a certain threshold, the IOLinc switches On, and if it's lower than the threshold the IOLinc switches Off. I'm not sure if maybe some of the Elk security stuff that integrates with ISY could do an analog sensor giving you more values than just On/Off. I guess if you had a computer (or arduino or something) hooked up to the flow meter, then it could set variables in the ISY via the REST interface. Any way you slice it...it's going to be a pain. The simplest answer is just "no". =)
LeeG Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I agree that Insteon is not the answer. There are devices that handle pulse detection but the frequency at which they happen cannot be processed by Insteon over a powerline.
apostolakisl Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 You can use a webcontrol board to count the pulses. Then using io_guy's program that links the webcontrol board to ISY, you program the 2 devices to accomplish your goal. The program io_guy has will synchronize the variables, inputs, and outputs, on webcontrol with variables on ISY. Webcontrol can be programmed to count pulses. The new firmware is necessary to count rapid pulses, so make sure you get the most up to date version. You would need to write code in the webcontrol to some extent to get values that could be transferred to ISY. http://www.amazon.com/Webcontrol-Univer ... webcontrol viewforum.php?f=81
Vyrolan Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 What apostolakisl says would work, but do know that it's very far from a plug-n-play solution. =) I was thinking along those lines when I mentioned using a computer to interface the sensor. That is a super generic solution though...with a full computer or computer-like device (this webcontrol board, a raspberry pi, an arduino, etc), you can eventually get to doing anything and always just give the info back to the ISY via the REST interface. I guess if io_guy has some of the code already wrapped up for it though, that's a start.
jellis Posted December 12, 2012 Author Posted December 12, 2012 These are great ideas guys and I appreciate your input. I was thinking/wondering if there might be a way to use the CAI webcontrol as well. I actually have the CAI up and running with temp sensors and it is close to where I would want the flow meter. I am also running io_guy's program/s to transfer the CAI's variables to my ISY. So it seems I am halfway there. I think the tough part for me is writing the code within the CAI. I have attempted in the past but have not had much luck. I did however find some CAI code out there that supposedly counts the pulses. The sensor that I would need to buy is fairly expensive so I think I would like to do a proof of concept first. Any ideas how I could simulate the pulses for testing against the CAI? I have a float sensor. I wonder if I could just flip it back and forth to simulate this? Here is the project background: I am adding a kegerator to our garage refrigerator. While thinking about the setup I wondered how I would know when it was getting close to empty. There are several options out there but nothing that cleanly or cheaply integrates with my current insteon system. (i.e. Kegbot, keg-meter) These options are pretty cool but either overkill or not integrated enough. So in the end all that I want is temperature and flow. Now that I think about it though this could be used for many other purposes such as tracking irrigaton, etc.
apostolakisl Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Jellis, Only the newest firmware of the CAI board has the ability to count high frequency pulses from a flow meter. I have sent several of my boards back to CAI to get upgraded, but they are not back yet. Setting up a counter using the PLC code is not complicated. It would only be a few lines of code. A few more lines of code would divide the counts into ounces or into 12 ounce blocks, or both, or whatever you want. With WClink you can sync those to variables in your ISY to notify you. You could have fun with that. Flashing lights, or voice announcement (if you have Elk) or any number of crazy ideas. Regarding Keg beer: I have a designed and patented a new coupler (tap) that measures the pressure differential between the gas and liquid at the coupler and from that can tell how much beer is in the keg, if beer is flowing, and the split second when the keg runs dry. It is accurate to about +/- 10 ounces at any given level in the keg. Simplistically, you can think of it as measuring the weight of the column of beer in the dip tube above the resting level in the keg. I was using the CAI boards as the controllers for the coupler during my initial testing. The coupler itself is finished and in limited production. I have hired out the design and production of the dedicated controller as I am not one to design circuit boards. Currently we are finishing the firmware on that. It is a wifi system that posts via internet to my businesses server which then creates graphs and reports. It also uncouples the keg the split second it goes dry so you don't "blow" the keg and fill your beer line with gas (mostly a problem with bars/restaurants with long lines). This is a commercial product designed for inventory control and order fullfillment. I plan a home version as well. A timeline on this is hard to tell. So maybe you stick with your flow meter for now. Early on when I was first playing around with this I picked up a flow meter for about $40 from someone in England. It was a fine device but after working with bar owners discovered it wouldn't work for various reasons. I can't recall where I bought it, but I found it just googling.
jellis Posted December 13, 2012 Author Posted December 13, 2012 Jellis, Only the newest firmware of the CAI board has the ability to count high frequency pulses from a flow meter. I have sent several of my boards back to CAI to get upgraded, but they are not back yet. Setting up a counter using the PLC code is not complicated. It would only be a few lines of code. A few more lines of code would divide the counts into ounces or into 12 ounce blocks, or both, or whatever you want. With WClink you can sync those to variables in your ISY to notify you. You could have fun with that. Flashing lights, or voice announcement (if you have Elk) or any number of crazy ideas. Regarding Keg beer: I have a designed and patented a new coupler (tap) that measures the pressure differential between the gas and liquid at the coupler and from that can tell how much beer is in the keg, if beer is flowing, and the split second when the keg runs dry. It is accurate to about +/- 10 ounces at any given level in the keg. Simplistically, you can think of it as measuring the weight of the column of beer in the dip tube above the resting level in the keg. I was using the CAI boards as the controllers for the coupler during my initial testing. The coupler itself is finished and in limited production. I have hired out the design and production of the dedicated controller as I am not one to design circuit boards. Currently we are finishing the firmware on that. It is a wifi system that posts via internet to my businesses server which then creates graphs and reports. It also uncouples the keg the split second it goes dry so you don't "blow" the keg and fill your beer line with gas (mostly a problem with bars/restaurants with long lines). This is a commercial product designed for inventory control and order fullfillment. I plan a home version as well. A timeline on this is hard to tell. So maybe you stick with your flow meter for now. Early on when I was first playing around with this I picked up a flow meter for about $40 from someone in England. It was a fine device but after working with bar owners discovered it wouldn't work for various reasons. I can't recall where I bought it, but I found it just googling. Sounds like some exciting stuff! I look forward to your home version. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. Could you tell me what version of the CAI Firmware I require?
apostolakisl Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 It looks like 3.2.14 which came out in September. They also have one more after that which is 3.2.15. According to the manual, it will handle up to 2mhz on ttl input 1. It also appears that it can be set to read out frequency or do a raw count. I am figuring this out reading the online manual and have no experience with it yet. It also appears that using this function will preclude using it as an x10 device.
apostolakisl Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 I just emailed Wayne at CAI and he tells me that the 3.2.14 firmware has a bug. That's why the .15 version only a few weeks later. He is sending me out the .16 version which also includes GET function to post values/states between two (or more?) CAI's. I'm looking forward to seeing it. Maybe it will let me post to ISY, but I doubt it. Wayne tells me the current hardware is pretty much out of space for adding any more features and aside from cleaning up any bugs, this is the end of the line for new features. EDIT: I found the flow meter I got a while back. I'll hook it up to the CAI board when I get them back and let you know how it works.
jellis Posted December 13, 2012 Author Posted December 13, 2012 Sounds good. I look forward to your update. I called CAI today and talked with one of the guys. Maybe it was Wayne, not sure...nice guy though. He told me to send it in with 10.00 and he would update it to the latest firmware. So I am going to ship it out tonight if I can make it to the UPS store in time. I also order a flow meter that I can use which will take about 15 days or so to receive. I only wish we could perform the firmware updates ourselves.
apostolakisl Posted December 13, 2012 Posted December 13, 2012 I only wish we could perform the firmware updates ourselves. Yup! The as of yet unreleased webcontrol32 board is user upgradable. But that doesn't really help out for now does it. Probably it was Wayne. CAI webcontrol is a small time operation. I have had quite a few email interactions with them and all of them ended up in Wayne's inbox. My gut feeling is that Wayne is the US face of the company and that otherwise it is a foreign (Chinese) operation.
jellis Posted February 11, 2013 Author Posted February 11, 2013 Ok, I hooked up my flow meter to the keg and beer is flowing through it like it should. Now I just need to run the wires to the board and write the code to count the pulses. I have never written code for the CAI. Any pointers on how to write the code and calibrate it?
arw01 Posted February 11, 2013 Posted February 11, 2013 Interesting stuff here fellows. A few years back I made up a device I found on the web that counted the spins of my power meter and put the pulse on a pin on the parrellel port of my linux server. I could resurrect that little beastie with the webcontrol board and this pulse count.
apostolakisl Posted February 11, 2013 Posted February 11, 2013 Wow, those are some serious brackets. Something you had in the "I'm saving these brackets just in case I ever need them in the future" box? (I have several of those boxes and my wife hates them). How are they attached to the meter box. . . since it would be illegal and all to open it up for running a screw through the backside. By the way, you probably knew this, but the latest firmware on the CAI board posts directly to ISY variables. . . no need for any intervening PC/linux thing.
arw01 Posted February 11, 2013 Posted February 11, 2013 They are actually just harbor freight dial indicator bases. Like $8.00 with the coupon and they let me adjust it just so. I could have bent some metal into shape eventually, but the whole thing was a year or so experiment. You could watch the log file with a tail -f going by to see the instant impact of the hot water tank or the dryer element going on and off. I figured a shower or a clothes dry session were $0.25 and $0.50 respectively. What shocked me was how much the house "leaks" with everything I could find to turn off except the device, the server and clocks, cable boxes etc. It was like 400 watts all the time, which at $0.096 a kWh, adds up to a pretty penny! When I just put my gas fired Takagi in my shop for radiant I almost bought one of these to monitor the exact amount of gas it used: Alan
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