Cross-Linked KeypadLincs Dimmed State

[ngeren]

I've got two KeypadLincs installed. One in my master bedroom (2486DWH8), and one in my living (2487S converted to 8 button). The main (light) in the master bedroom's KeypadLinc has been cross-linked with a button in the living using two scenes (one for each direction). The synchronization works fine in all scenarios except when the master bedroom's main (light) is dimmed. If the light is dimmed, the KeypadLinc in the living does not reflect that the light is on in the master. Am I missing something with my set up? Should this be working? Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[oberkc]

Of course, KPL button backlights are either ON or OFF. They have no way of showing a DIM setting.

 

My experience is that KPL buttons and other insteon ON/OFF indications can show OFF when a linked dimmable controller device goes below half. Is it possible that you are seeing this type of behaviour?

[ngeren]

I just tested it by setting the master keypadlinc to a current state of 99% in the ISY, the linked living's linked keypadlinc still showed it as off. It only appears to show any on state (backlight), when I issue a full-ON.

[LeeG]

ngeren

 

Devices linked to the KeypadLinc are not affected when that KeypadLinc is controlled with a Direct command. That is, if the bedroom KeypadLinc is set to 50% On the linked devices do not react. That is not unique to KeypadLincs. Insteon Direct commands affect only the device the command is directed to.

 

I read earlier that two Scenes were used to cross-link the devices. A single ISY Scene should be used with both KeypadLinc buttons assigned to the one Scene as Controllers. The ISY assumes a Controller is also a Responder, cross-linking the buttons with the one ISY Scene.

 

If the KeypadLinc in the bedroom is dimmed using its load control button (pressing and holding the load control button to dim the load), it is possible for the other device to get out of sync. The dimming process consists of two commands. When the KPL button is pressed and held a Start Manual Change command is sent to the Responder. When the KPL button is released a Stop Manual Change command is sent to the Responder. The Responder measures the time between the Start and Stop commands, and estimates whether the Controller load is still On. The Responder timing may not be the exact same of the Controller timing so the Controller load can be still On or completely Off with the Responder timing concluding the opposite state. It is the nature of using the Bright/Dim process when devices are linked together.

 

Same thing with what the Admin Console reports as the On Level of the bedroom KeypadLinc. The ISY is estimating how Bright or Dim the load is based on the time between the Start and Stop Manual Change commands. It is common for the Admin Console to show a % On leel that is different from the actual device.

[oberkc]

ngeren

 

If you wish to further experiment, press and hold (either dim or brighten) the master keypad. Set the state in various states of brightness and note whether the linked keypad button consistently goes on or off at a certain dimming level. Like LeeG says, this will not work controlling the device via ISY.

[ngeren]

Thanks for the input guys. Sounds like a half-assed implementation/design (Insteon?). Could the backlight be controlled via program that monitored the bedroom KPL for a change? Seems like that would be possible.

[oberkc]

Could the backlight be controlled via program that monitored the bedroom KPL for a change?

 

Of course it could. Programs often fill in the capability gaps. One downside to programs is a slight, but noticable time delay.

 

Below is a general idea (syntax not perfect) of a program that will illuminate a keypad button whenever another switch is anything but completely off:

 

if:

status "dimmer" is not off

 

then

set "keypad button" on

 

else

set "keypad button" off

[ngeren]

I had something similar, but last night, the ISY got into some type of infinite loop (after working fine for over a week), and started flashing on/off. I'm wondering if it had something to do with the living KPL being set up as a controller for the bedroom KPL, and the program turning the button "ON." It was quite odd. I ended up rebooting the ISY and all was normal again, but definitely strange.

[ngeren]

Oh, and I did confirm that a manually dimmed KPL will reflect on the linked responder KPL button backlighting.

[LeeG]

Post the Program (right click Program name and select Copy to Clipboard) as it is very likely to happen again until Program is corrected. Sounds like the Program has an If Status check for a device that is being changed by the Program. The change in Status will cause the Program to be triggered again and perhaps run the Else clause which changes the Status again. The Program cycles between the Then and Else clauses. Not an uncommon programming error for someone starting out.