Multiple Dim Levels

[DualBandAid]

Right now, I can set my Insteon devices to easily give me two options...

 

1) A Pre-Set Dimmed Level - available via a single on-click

2) Full Intensity - available via a double-click

 

But there are many times I'm finding there are other dim levels that I'd like. What would be really awesome is, for example, being able to set:

 

Dim Level 1 - let's say 25%

Dim Level 2 - how about 50%

 

So one on-click takes me to 25%. The next on-click takes me to 50%. A double-click takes me to 100%, of course.

 

Another way to put it is, if I come home and the lights are set to 50%...and it's starting to get dark our and I want to dim them further, I can just down-click once and the light will drop down to the next "Dim Level".

 

I find - and I imagine I'm not alone - that I use multiple dim levels for certain lights. In the dim morning, about 80%. By afternoon, 100%. As the sun is going down, I drop to 60%. Then as it's even darker...around 30%. I don't need to program ALL of them - that would be too much. But even being given just a SECOND pre-set dim level would be nice.

 

BTW Michel, currently the workaround I have to achieve this is a program running which looks at the time - then if it sees an on-click for a device, the program will change the device to a certain dim level. For lights that are normally set to full brightness, the result is that the light goes to full brightness, then drops down to the dim level I programmed.

 

The only other way I think I could achieve this is to create multiple scenes for the same light -- the have a program "Adjust Scene" periodically through-out the day. However, I don't want to do that because I recently read a post you responded to about limiting the number of writes to the flash drive lest it wears out.

 

Great system btw. New to it. Very impressed.

[Vyrolan]

BTW Michel, currently the workaround I have to achieve this is a program running which looks at the time - then if it sees an on-click for a device, the program will change the device to a certain dim level. For lights that are normally set to full brightness, the result is that the light goes to full brightness, then drops down to the dim level I programmed.

So you are seeing the Switch go On and then having a program set an explicit current level for the device. You're not having the program change the On Level because you worry about wearing out the flash memory?

 

The only other way I think I could achieve this is to create multiple scenes for the same light -- the have a program "Adjust Scene" periodically through-out the day.

This is by far the most common approach. Other options include more programs or more modules. For example if your lights are controlled by an InlineLinc, OutletLinc, or one of the new Micro Modules, then the SwitchLinc is just a controller...and you can have every press up or down run an ISY program to bump up or down the level by some amount. You can do basically anything in that scenario. =p

[LeeG]

As presented a hardware/firmware change to the SwitchLinc (assumption as to device) is required. This requirement should be posted to the Smarthome forum under the Insteon category, Insteon Product/Module Request topic. Not something UDI can implement.

 

One approach using existing Insteon device capability is to install a KeypadLinc where you want to initiate different On Levels. Some of the KeypadLinc Secondary buttons can turn the KeypadLinc Load Control button On to different Bright levels (On Levels). I set up button C to turn the KPL on to 25%, button D on to 50%, button E on to 75%. Other possibilities/approaches have been posted

[DualBandAid]

So you are seeing the Switch go On and then having a program set an explicit current level for the device. You're not having the program change the On Level because you worry about wearing out the flash memory?

Vryolan, that is correct. This is the post that gave me that concern...

 

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=887&p=6281&hilit=flash+write#p6281

 

This was the question posed:

 

How many times can we flash new programming into the ISY-99i/IR before we start approaching the limit? It just occurred to me as I merrily made a change, saved it, made a change, saved it, ad nauseum...

 

IIRC, all flashable devices have some upper limit as to how many times you can update the flash memory before that memory starts getting flakey.

 

Seems to me I often read 100,000 cycles as typical (so you could perform 100 re-flashes each day for about 2.7 years, or more likely 10 flashes per day on average for 27 years ). Mind you, perhaps current technology flash memory has better recovery after many cycles??

And this was the answer given:

 

Good question and something that we had to think about when designing and thus chose SD Card as the medium for storage. SD Card, as you suggested, last about 100,000 write/erase/delete operations and millions of reads. Normal life expectancy, if you upgraded your ISY every day, would be 3 years. The other advantage is that you can simply replace the SD card in case it become defective (make sure you have your latest backup).

 

With kind regards,

Michel

I see now they were mostly talking about the ISY. But...

 

1) When I adjust a scene, isn't that effectively writing something to the switch itself?

2) And, if so, what you think about my concern given the above info from Michel?

 

(I could easily be doing 5 writes a day)

 

This is by far the most common approach.

Then I guess I can take the plunge. Thank you. One general question (I will try to figure out the details myself):

 

Is it possible to use the "Adjust Scene" program to change the light intensity level, but not turn the light on if it is currently off? In other words, if the light is off...I would like to change the intensity level the next time the light is turned on. But I don't necessarily want to turn it on now. Would you say Adjust Scene is the way to do that?

 

Thank you!

[DualBandAid]

Hi LeeG,

 

As presented a hardware/firmware change to the SwitchLinc (assumption as to device) is required. This requirement should be posted to the Smarthome forum under the Insteon category, Insteon Product/Module Request topic. Not something UDI can implement.

 

SwitchLinc it is. I will try to be more precise next time I post. Sorry about that.

 

Took me a little bit to figure out what you were saying (still new) -- but I think I got it now. UDI is the company that makes my ISY...and you're saying this is out of their hands and I should post the request in the forum of the company that makes the Switch itself...which is where the change would need to be made?

 

One approach using existing Insteon device capability is to install a KeypadLinc where you want to initiate different On Levels. Some of the KeypadLinc Secondary buttons can turn the KeypadLinc Load Control button On to different Bright levels (On Levels). I set up button C to turn the KPL on to 25%, button D on to 50%, button E on to 75%. Other possibilities/approaches have been posted

 

Thank you. That may work in a few places. Are you a "fan" of the Adjust Scene approach mentioned above?

[LeeG]

Exactly right regarding where requests for SwitchLinc function changes should be made.

 

I have no problem using Adjust Scene whenever it provides the function I need. I prefer Scene actions rather than Program actions wherever possible. The Adjust Scene allows me to change the Scene response at different times of the day which is my preference. There is no latency with a Scene response and should I be playing with my ISY the house continues to function as much as possible. Some folks have questioned how many device update (write) cycles are too many. EEProms are spec'ed for 1,000,000 update cycles. I have never seen a device failure because the EEProm was updated too frequently. A device updated 10 times a day for 10 years is 36,500 writes. Compared to the 1,000,000 spec not even a drop in the bucket.

[apostolakisl]

You can an second "on" level of sorts to a switchlinc by using the "if status off and control off" technique.

 

If
       Status  'Master Bedroom / Master-Bath Cans L' is Off
   And Control 'Master Bedroom / Master-Bath Cans L' is switched Off

Then
       Set 'Master Bedroom / Master-Bath Cans L' 25%

Else
  - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

Using this style program, if the light is off, and you click off, it will go to whatever percentage you specify in the program. You could add an additional one if you like using the "switched fast off"

 

You could also specify in the program other parameters such as time so that one program might be active at one time of day making it go to percentage x, and a different program would be active at other times going to percentage y.

[DualBandAid]

You can an second "on" level of sorts to a switchlinc by using the "if status off and control off" technique.

 

Good idea -- though I can see my wife killing in my sleep for having multiple - and varied "secret" easter egg-y button controls at various locations in the house.

 

I actually found a sample program here...

 

viewtopic.php?p=10667#10667

 

...that does what I would like. Specifically, it says it:

 

v2.6.7 - Using a Program to adjust On level/Ramp Rates for a Scene for different times of day....The on level/ramp rates of devices within scenes may be adjusted using programs. This is useful in cases where you want a light to be at 100% when switched on during the day and evening, but at late night you would want it to come on at 25%.

 

Exactly what I want. These are the details:

 

Advantages

 

Unlike using a program to test for a button press and then turn the light on to a certain level, the actual link within the device is updated.

 

The main advantage to this approach is that the ISY is not in the loop when you turn the scene on or off, and therefore there is no delay.

 

How to use it

 

1. Select Adjust Scene in the dropdown for an Action.

2. Select either the Master Scene, or a controller within that scene.

3. Select the responder in the scene

4. Select the new on level or ramp rate (you can find ramp rates at the end of the drop down list).

 

Example:

 

Isy Scene:

. Bathroom (Master Scene)

. - Bathroom Switch (SwitchLinc Controller)

. - Bathroom Light (LampLinc Responder)

 

This changes the on level of 'Bathroom Light' to 25% at late night, and 100% at all other times when switched on using 'Bathroom Switch'. It also adjusts the ramp rate.

 

However, there only appears to be for a situation with TWO devices -- a controller and a responder. In my case, I just have one SwitchLinc controlling a light. And I couldn't adapt their program to mine. I tried adding the SwitchLinc as a controller...no go. I tried adding it as a responder...no go.

 

Thoughts?

[Vyrolan]

Is it possible to use the "Adjust Scene" program to change the light intensity level, but not turn the light on if it is currently off? In other words, if the light is off...I would like to change the intensity level the next time the light is turned on. But I don't necessarily want to turn it on now. Would you say Adjust Scene is the way to do that?

That is exactly how Adjust Scene works...

 

You can just on timers adjust the on levels with Adjust Scene and it will change what happens when the switch is hit. It's a pretty simple program. You found the example...

 

Assuming your switchlinc is named "TheSwitch", you just do:

If
       From    11:30:00PM
       To      Sunrise -  2 hours (next day)

Then
       In Scene 'TheSwitch' Set 'TheSwitch' 25% (On Level)

Else
       In Scene 'TheSwitch' Set 'TheSwitch' 100% (On Level)

 

In your case where you just have a single device controlling it's own load, you want to change the local on level which is done by picking the switch in both drop downs for Adjust Scene.

[Vyrolan]

Good idea -- though I can see my wife killing in my sleep for having multiple - and varied "secret" easter egg-y button controls at various locations in the house.

As an aside, I have the same concerns as far as the wife goes. She doesn't like keypads everywhere, yet she does like the extra control...a conundrum! I've added slowly a few of these easter egg type things. She actually finds them really useful so I'll probably work her slowly towards general acceptance and/or more keypads. =) At first she's always really put off but when you can demonstrate tangible benefit, suddenly it's ok. =p

[apostolakisl]

You can an second "on" level of sorts to a switchlinc by using the "if status off and control off" technique.

 

Good idea -- though I can see my wife killing in my sleep for having multiple - and varied "secret" easter egg-y button controls at various locations in the house.

 

 

That isn't really the way this works. The idea is you push the off button to turn the light on to one level, and the on side to go to a different level. I use it as a night light. When you get out of bed and don't want to be blasted, you hit the off side of the switch and the light only comes up to 25%. I have put this functions in all the bedrooms and bedroom bathrooms. This is probably my wife's favorite function as she tends to pee more in the night than I.

[DualBandAid]

That isn't really the way this works. The idea is you push the off button to turn the light on to one level, and the on side to go to a different level.

 

That's what I thought I was describing. In any case, pushing the "off button to turn the light on" sounds very much like an Easter Egg to me. See aforementioned post about wife.

[DualBandAid]

Vyrolan,

 

1) So basically I would be creating a Scene with just one switch. Is that correct?

 

2) Do I add the SwitchLinc as a controller or responder?

 

3) Will this inherently interfere with having that switch (and therefore the light) in other scenes? I say inherently, because I know I certainly could program in some kind of conflict...but, outside of that, is there a problem having a device in multiple scenes in and of itself?

 

Thanks so much.

[DualBandAid]

FOLLOW-UP:

 

This isn't working. I'll try to explain what is happening.

 

In your case where you just have a single device controlling it's own load, you want to change the local on level which is done by picking the switch in both drop downs for Adjust Scene.

 

For starters, the SwitchLinc is NOT available in both drop-downs. The two drop downs are "In Scene" & "Set". The only things available in the "In Scene" menu are the names of the scenes in my ISY, not any of the switches. In my case, I have one scene with my SwitchLinc added as a a RESPONDER (should it be controller?). In any case, in the "Set" pull-down menu, then I AM able to pick my SwitchLinc. I also see nothing in the Program section that mentions the local on level.

 

So here is what is happening when my program initiates. Pretty much nothing. The only thing that changes is I notice in the ISY that, while I have highlighted the Scene, the on-level changes to what I have programmed (in this case 35%). However, pressing the SwitchLinc doesn't reflect this change in brightness. If the light is off, turning it on via the switch sends the light to 100%. If the ISY shows that the Scene is "On" (and at 100%), the light itself stays at 100%, even though the Scene "On Level" in the ISY now says 35%.

 

HOWEVER, if I click the Scene "Off" in the ISY, then turn it back on, only then does it go to 35%. So I'm doing something right...and something wrong....

 

EDIT: Also, the "Properties" of that particular switch don't change. Specifically the "On Level [applied locally]" stays at 100%. The only thing that changes is the Scenes "On-Level" -- and only in the ISY -- it's not reflected by the actual light until I trigger the scene.

[LeeG]

There are two On Level definitions. A Responder On Level is when a Controller directs the Responder to turn On, the Responder turns On to the Responder On Level. This is what is set with the On Level slider of a Responder.

 

The other On Level is the Local On Level which affects what the SwitchLinc does when its paddle is used to turn the SwitchLinc On. To set this click on the SwitchLinc node and set the On Level (applied locally) slider to the desired On Level.

 

"I have one scene with my SwitchLinc added as a a RESPONDER (should it be controller?)."

 

Yes. If you want to change/adjust the Local On Level with the Adjust Scene statement the SwitchLinc must be a Controller of a Scene before it will appear in the 'In Scene' pulldown. Specify the SwitchLinc node name in both the 'In Scene' and 'Set' parameters to set the Local On Level.

[DualBandAid]

If you want to change/adjust the Local On Level with the Adjust Scene statement the SwitchLinc must be a Controller of a Scene before it will appear in the 'In Scene' pulldown.

 

That's gotta be the problem then. Will try when I get home (at work now). Of course, I seem to recall seeing something about making my ISY accessible over the internet...which, if true, means I could try to play with this at work. Slightly complicated by the fact I wouldn't be VISUALLY seeing the results, but would have to "fly by the instruments" (as I think pilots say). Also complicated by the fact, at work, I have to...you know...work.

 

Thank you again!

[apostolakisl]

You have to open a port and point it at your ISY. A secure port is recommended. Then of course you need to know your home IP address or register it with no-ip, dyndns.com, or one of the other dynamic dns services.

 

http://www.universal-devices.com/docs/I ... 0Guide.pdf

 

above will help you establish security.

[DualBandAid]

Yes. If you want to change/adjust the Local On Level with the Adjust Scene statement the SwitchLinc must be a Controller of a Scene before it will appear in the 'In Scene' pulldown. Specify the SwitchLinc node name in both the 'In Scene' and 'Set' parameters to set the Local On Level.

 

Thank you! It worked as advertised. I was actually a bit skeptical as I was doing it since there was no visual change from the last time -- meaning there was nothing on-screen to indicate that the levels I was changing would apply to the Local On Level. I would think there would be.

 

This method of control seems somewhat arbitrary - and more than a little confusing. For example, my SwitchLinc device, designated a controller in my new scene now appears in the "In Scene" pull-down...but it's not actually a scene. Then there's the fact that the Local On Level is what is now being adjusted...but nothing on-screen indicates this. Is there a way you think about it that makes it easier to remember?

 

Also, just curious, I'm using the latest public release. Do you recommend upgrading to one of the betas...or is it a good idea just to wait?

 

Thanks again so much. Looking forward to setting up my lights!

[LeeG]

Click on the SwitchLinc node in the My Lighting/ISY Lighting tree. The On Level (applied locally) slider should reflect the change in Local On Level set by the Adjust Scene statement.

 

Not sure if this will help or add to the confusion. An ISY Scene can actually represent multiple Insteon Scenes. Each Controller of the ISY Scene represents a different Insteon Scene. The ISY PLM is the Controller of the ISY Scene name Insteon Scene. The SwitchLinc is a Controller of what is actually a separate Insteon Scene.

 

If you wanted to change what a particular Responder does when the SwitchLinc paddle is pressed, the Adjust Scene 'In Scene' parameter would contain the SwitchLinc node name, the 'Set' parameter would contain the node name of the Responder. That same Responder could react differently when the ISY Scene name is used (when the ISY PLM is the Controller). In that case the Adjust Scene 'In Scene' parameter would contain the ISY Scene name (which is the way the ISY PLM as Controller is identified) and the 'Set' parameter would have the same Responder node name as above. The Responder would react one way when controlled from the SwitchLinc paddle, a different way when the ISY PLM is the Controller.

 

The Adjust Scene statement identifies which Controller and which Responder. When the Controller (In Scene parameter) and the Responder (Set parameter) are the same node name Local values in the Controller are being adjusted.

 

ISY Scene X

SwitchLinc1 Controller

SwitchLinc2 Controller

LampLinc1 Responder

LampLinc2 Responder

 

The above ISY Scene definition represents three Insteon Scenes. The ISY PLM is one Controller, SwitchLinc1 is another Controller and SwitchLinc2 is another Controller.

 

Scene X – PLM is Controller

SwitchLinc1 is Responder

SwitchLinc2 is Responder

LampLinc1 is Responder

LampLinc2 is Responder

 

SwitchLinc1 – is Controller

SwitchLinc2 is Responder

LampLinc1 is Responder

LampLinc2 is Responder

 

SwitchLinc2 – is Controller

SwitchLinc1 is Responder

LampLinc1 is Responder

LampLinc2 is Responder

[DualBandAid]

That is helpful, thank you. It, at least, gives me a visual way to confirm what has happened.

 

Programming questions:

 

I'm actually doing multiple dim changes throughout the day (4, actually). So I'm not doing an "else" statement like indicated above. I'm just saying basically...

 

If it's 10 am-12 pm, set the brightness at 50%

 

If it's 12 pm-5 pm, set the brightness at 80%

 

If it's 5 pm-10 pm, set the brightness at 100%

 

If it's 10 pm-10 am the next day, set the brightness at 20%

 

 

(sorry, I can't seem to find a way to cut & paste my actual code)

 

1) But my question is, it seems like the "else" part of the equation is neither necessary, nor possible for that matter. True?

 

2) Also, do I even need to set BOTH start and end times?

 

Meaning, can't I just write:

 

If it's 10 am, set the brightness at 50%

 

If it's 12 pm, set the brightness at 80%

 

If it's 5 pm, set the brightness at 100%

 

If it's 10 pm the next day, set the brightness at 20%

 

 

It's not like the program is "running" constantly. A trigger happens once and then the Scene is Adjusted...and then that's it, right?

 

Actually, now that I think about it...

 

3) If all the above is true, it seems like maybe it's a special case because I'm not using the else statement, right?

[DualBandAid]

I think I can answer my own questions.

 

1) I was able to get a program to trigger an Adjust Scene change without an else.

2) I was ALSO able to get a program to trigger with just a Start Time.

 

Not sure about Question #3.

 

But I did notice something. The above only worked if I created a stand-alone program. If I put an Adjust Scene program in a conditional folder -- and set the Start Time on the enclosing folder, my program never ran. It never ran whether I just specified a Start Time -- or if I specified a Start & End Time.

 

HOWEVER, I was able to get it to work if I specified a Start & End Time AND also a Condition statement that asked whether the Enclosing folder is True. In other words...

 

If

Folder 'Multi-Dim 4 OVERNIGHT' is True

 

Then

In Scene 'LIVING RM - Sconces' Set 'LIVING RM - Sconces' 30% (On Level)

 

Else

- No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action')

 

 

 

I'm not sure if I did something wrong and figured out a work-around...or if there's just different ways to do things. The reason I have my program in an enclosing folder is because I have several programs in there and I figured, as I was tweaking the start and end times, I could just do it once.

 

BTW, the Enclosing Folder had this condition:

 

Folder Conditions for 'Multi-Dim 4 OVERNIGHT'

Add conditions to limit when programs in this folder are allowed to run.

 

 

 

If

From 10:00:00PM

To Sunrise (next day)

 

Then

Allow the programs in this folder to run.

 

 

[bsobel]

Folder conditions enable the programs in a folder to run, but it doesn't run them. Something has to trigger the if statement. So when you had a folder with a time range those programs would run during that time range if (and only if) something caused their IF to get evaluated.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[LeeG]

It is common not to have logic in the Else clause. Because the Else clause runs anytime the Program triggers and the If is False, the Else clause can be run multiple times with a complex If. There are times when the Else is very useful. Just depends on the circumstances involved.

 

A time range is not needed. If a time range is used by itself, when the From time occurs the Program is triggered, the If is True so the Then clause runs. When the To time occurs the Program is triggered, the If is False so the Else clause runs. Because the requirements to adjust the On Level cover 4 time slots that span the full 24 hours, with 4 different On Levels, coding 4 Programs with a specific time that marks the beginning of a time slot is a fine way to code the Programs.

 

The relationship between a Folder in its Programs was covered well by bsobel. The key being, a Folder allows a Program to run (or prevents a Program from running) but does not cause the Program to run.

[DualBandAid]

Thanks guys. All very helpful - especially the part about the folders only ALLOWING a program to run.

 

Question, are there sometimes programs that don't work for no discernible reason? I have my four time changes set up - and one of them isn't working -- even though identical to the others (except for a dim level change and different time change).

 

Actually, another one is acting weird too - but that involves a 4-way switch (which was acting weird before - and a story for another time...

[LeeG]

Programs do not function for a definable reason. It just has not been identified. Program execution is NOT an intermittent event in the ISY.

 

Post the Program and the Folder (if any) it is under.

 

Also check the Programs | Summary screen for Last Run Time. Often it is concluded the Program did not run when it is actually the activity it performed did not work correctly.

 

EDIT: this could be as simple as the If clause evaluated to False ratter than True, or the function performed was not successful because of powerline issues.