Issue setting up Motion Sensor 2842-222

[jwilliams]

New to ISY. Encountered strange outcome when setting up Motion Sensor 2842-222.

 

ISY 994i

Windows XP

Microsoft Security Essentials

ZoneAlarm

Linksys WRT54GL

 

Set up manually. Selected 2842-222 from drop down box. After set up complete, a scene was automatically established that linked the Motion Sensor with a dual-band KeypadLinc Button A (nearest dual band device to sensor when setting up sensor). Don't have a clue why this scene appeared. The Sensor was brand new, and I have no other sensors in my setup. When testing sensor, every time motion was detected, Button A on KeyPadLinc lit up.

 

I followed instructions to delete the scene. Pressed setup button on back of sensor for 5 seconds then deleted scene. However, first test after deletion from UD Admin Console ... KeypadLinc Button A lit up again. Head scratcher. Ignored it and went on to other issues. Came back. Tested again. This time, nothing.

 

While it appears that I have cleared this up, is there anyway to check to make absolutely sure? Why did this happen? Does the Sensor simply grab the nearest Dual-Band device and establish a scene with that device?

[LeeG]

This can happen if the Motion Sensor had been linked manually to the KeypadLinc before being added to the ISY. The ISY does NOT generate user level Scenes between devices as described. When a device is added to the ISY the default 'remove existing links' option insures the device being added will not contain old links. That action alone will not remove the other half of the link which is in the KeypadLinc.

 

It sounds like the ISY was still in the process of removing the Scene information when the Motion Sensor continued to control the KeypadLinc. There are Green Icons displayed to the left of the device nodes as the ISY is updating a device such as removing a link record.

 

The KeypadLinc Primary node can be right clicked, select Diagnostics | Show Device Links Table. When the display completes check that the link records do not have the Insteon address of the Motion Sensor. The same thing can be done for the Motion Sensor. It has to be put into linking mode first. Then right click the motion sensor Sensor node, select Diagnostics | Show Device Links Table and insure none of the link records have the KeypadLinc Insteon address.

[jwilliams]

Thank you Lee

 

Let's skip down to diagnostics. I ran the diagnostics on the KeyPadLinc to see the links table. Although I deleted the scene where the motion sensor got tied to the KeyPadLinc .... it is still reflected in the links table of the KeyPadLinc. So, I deleted the motion sensor from the ISY and ran another diagnostic on the KeyPadLinc. The link to the motion sensor is still reflected in the links table of the KeyPadLinc.

 

How do manually get rid of this link between KeyPadLinc and Motion Sensor?

[oberkc]

How do manually get rid of this link between KeyPadLinc and Motion Sensor?

 

The most thorough way would be to remove the Keypadlinc and motion sensor from the ISY, then perform factory resets on both, then add them back to the ISY.

 

From the ISY admin panel, neither are showing up as part of scenes? If not, then it may be enough simply to "restore device". Right-click on each, and choose the option. For the motion sensor, you may have to put it into linking mode.

[LeeG]

What is in the first byte of the link record in question?

 

If it is a 02, 22, or 62 the link record is inactive and nothing to worry about. When link records are deleted only the Flag byte (first byte) is changed to make the link record inactive. Once inactive the remainder of the data in the link record has no meaning.

 

A Restore Device will physically remove the link record but there is no functional need to do that.

[jwilliams]

Thanks Lee. It's a 22. If as you indicate, it's an inactive link. Now wish I knew whether it was removing the scene, or removing the Motion Sensor, that caused the link to become inactive.

 

Where can I see a list of the codes and their meaning?

 

Am now going to try to manually set-up the motion sensor again.

[LeeG]

Do not manually Set button link Insteon devices when using an ISY. It is not aware of manual Set button links and will eventually overlay or delete the link records. This results in half/broken links with various undesired affects.

 

Do all device linking with ISY Scenes.

 

The link record Flag byte might be defined in the old insteondetails.pdf document at insteon.net. It is an old document but the basic stuff about Insteon still applies.

 

The common values

 

A2 - active Responder link record

E2 - active Controller link record

02, 22, 62 - deleted link record - 22 was a Responder link record, 62 was a Controller link record

00 - End of List marker

 

AA - a new combination that has been showing up. Has something to do with I2CS (?) but the meaning of the 08 bit is not documented to the general public. The Ax makes it an active Responder link record.

[jwilliams]

Unfortunately, I have to manually set all links between devices. I have to maintain SmartLinc in conjunction with ISY. Yes, I know this presents immense challenges, but unfortunately ISY will not serve all my needs. ISY does not handle ApplianceLincs so that they can act as Controllers. I have multiple appliances that when on, I need for them to light up keys on Keypadlincs. ISY will not accommodate this need. SmartLinc does.

 

Vice versa, I need ISY to control motion sensors and for some programming.

 

Neither SmartLinc, nor ISY are 100% solutions. So I have to endure the pain of running both.

 

My work around when I need to make manual adjustments to devices - 1. Remove device from ISY. 2. Make manual adjustment. 3. Re-setup device in ISY, instructing it to keep existing links.

 

At some point in the future, either ISY or SmartHome will win this race with a product that meets all needs. But right now, both have sever limitations and weaknesses.

[LeeG]

An ISY Program can react to the ApplianceLinc being turned On/Off and turn a KPL button On/Off in response. An ApplianceLinc has no Controller capability so it cannot be done directly with a Scene.

 

Any linking done outside the ISY can prevent the ISY from being aware of device state changes.

[jwilliams]

"An ISY Program can react to the ApplianceLinc being turned On/Off and turn a KPL button On/Off in response. An ApplianceLinc has no Controller capability so it cannot be done directly with a Scene."

 

Really? I can't figure out how to make that happen.

 

"Any linking done outside the ISY can prevent the ISY from being aware of device state changes."

 

Yep, which makes running SmartLinc and ISY in conjunction a very painful process.

[Xathros]

jwilliams-

 

Add create a scene containing your KPL button then use a program as follows:

 

If
  Status ApplianceLinc is Off

Then
  Set Scene KPL-B Off

Else
  Set Scene KPL-B On

 

HTH

 

-Xathros