simplextech

I don't think you know much about RTI or Control4 and their capabilities. It reads as though you think they are some low end minimal automation like Alexa or Google. The things that can be done with RTI and Control4 really blow past anything done in the DIY arena today. These systems are dealer installed systems and for small systems are actually affordable or they can expand to be huge and very expensive.

Stop being stuck on the core OS packages. The development packages Python, Node.js are included in the current "OS" updates. I have been stung by those updates being included in the OS.

Join the club there's many on here that are integrators. I deal mainly Lutron, RTI, Elk and ISY. There's another here that's a C4 guy and several ISY integrators. This whole thing is just making my head spin. Every professional system out there handles what you've listed and does it very well. You're extremely brave or a little crazy to deploy a DIY system like HomeSeer (HS4) and especially Hubitat for actual paying customers. Not trying to pick a fight but that's just wow brave if you're doing that. I'd go into the poor house from all of the support issues. The problem with the Z Protocols is not that the protocols have issues. It's the software implementations on the gateways (hubs/software) that are poorly implemented. Nodeservers for Lutron products already exist for PG2 and will eventually be updated for PG3 (as time allows).

Hubitat is in the same boat as everyone else when it comes to Ra 3. They will have to get auth keys from Lutron and re-develop their integration.

So the packages mirrored into the UD (pkg.isy.io) repositories are tested for interoperability and conflicts before being pushed into the "latest" repo which is used by Polisy? A typical process is to mirror updates from upstream and run them in house and perform testing before release. This release is then published for systems to apply the updates bringing new features and fixes. The repo's are split by release version and often only critical security fixes are in the frequent update repo and then stability and major bug fixes in the common repo. This is a fairly standard process for "production" systems. Now on the other hand there's the "rolling release" methodology where updates are made available and can be applied as soon as possible. This allows things to be tested and updated quickly and with a much larger audience. This is not typical for "production" systems which could incur outages or have reliability/stability issues. This type of methodology is generally used for development cycles or for cutting edge systems. Will Polisy release cycles always be a "rolling release" and end users must be aware of this before doing updates as OS level packages will be updated. You may feel like I'm trying to pick a bone with you but I'm really not. I'm stating the fact of the matter that Polisy is still under heavy development and yes even at the OS level as requirements of the ISY and PG subsystems are evolving and so must the OS layer. The OS layer is not simply the kernel but all of those other little packages that lots of other things are dependent on and all of those together form the OS. The system packages which are used for PG (Python, Node.js) are continuously being updated and introduce incompatibility and breaking changes. This happens. This is part of development. At some point the system packages and development packages such as Python and Node.js will need to be frozen for broad production compatibility and support. I foresee a development branch of package repos also existing for those living on the bleeding edge or doing extended development work or even some of us building and using our own versions of Python or Node.js to overcome any version limitations of the "System Provided LTS" versions. We're just not there today and it's going to take a bit of time. Again I'm not knocking on what exists just pointing out we're not there just yet. Now on the flip side perhaps getting to a broad supportable system isn't desired. The ability to flex the system and developers ability to get any package and version they want added or things like Node.js updated for them to any version they want is great. For them. Not for the whole ecosystem as those system wide changes to get some new feature can break things for everyone else. Some sand boxing might be done to provide that level of do whatever freedom for developers but keep the system (default) versions available for LTS. Now that's a whole new can of worms though.

Anyone can enroll for the free online training. After completing the exam you can download the software. This is not completely accurate. If you purchase the "kit" then it's kinda expensive as this is made for dealers who will be learning and deploying various types of equipment and may not include things you will actually use. However you can purchase the main repeater by itself as well as any of the components. Now whoever you are purchasing from may impose some quantity limit or MOQ and that's on them. I can purchase and resell at any quantity. Now historically the Radio RA 2 and above equipment has been dealer only. Which really meant that anyone with a commercial account with a lighting supplier or ADI or any distributor that sells Lutron equipment can purchase the devices. The trick was you need the software to do anything with it which means you need the training. Currently the Ra 3 main repeaters are hitting distro and will be available soon. Some orders are being delivered so where you order from will depend on arrival times. I've checked with my supplier and other distro's and the pricing is really not bad for my prices and I don't get a bulk discount. Now the ever present question about integration. The new Ra 3 main repeater uses LEAP. What does that mean? Well it's the same LIP (Lutron Integration Protocol) inside but it's now using SSH instead of telnet for the connection and importantly the authentication and encryption of the communication. Does the old telnet connection still work? I've been told no but I still want to double check that as it's an important point. I do know for sure that when they updated the HomeWorks QS processor to the new QSX processor that new processor was LEAP ONLY. No telnet. I have to believe this is the same for Ra 3. LEAP is the path forward for Lutron integration and has been present in the consumer (big box store) version of the Caseta bridge since the release and is now the integration method for the HomeWorks QSX processor. Yes there are ways to "hack" the authentication for the Caseta bridge but whether that same method will work with the Ra 3 and QSX, I don't know and I won't investigate as I'm not into developing "hack" versions of integrations. I've been in contact with Lutron to get authentication keys issued for development against the platform. I know that the big boys have been granted the auth keys for development (C4, RTI, Crestron, Savant) and their development was slow even with direct vendor help. I also know that Lutron is going to be very hesitant about giving "just anyone" the ability to authenticate into their systems with the risk of those keys being "loose in the wild". Because of this I think it will be a long time (if ever) before any of the DIY systems have any integration especially those DIY systems that distribute their integrations, plugins, nodeservers that are developed in non-compiled languages and distributed in source code. One reason I migrated my nodeserver development from Python to Node.js (Javascript) was to have the ability to "compile" or rather highly obfuscate the source code into machine code making it nearly impossible for a person to "easily" read, copy, use the machine code for anything useful. This might satisfy vendors like Lutron but I don't know yet. Now is this possible with Python? Yes. BUT.... I never did this with Python or even with JavaScript because the underlying OS and development environment of Polisy is under too heavy of development itself and is constantly changing the versions of the runtime environments which makes it very difficult to compile against a specific version that will likely be gone on the next update. Currently there is no structure or order to the development and release process. I would rant about SDLC but I'm not sure that would mean anything to anyone else. I think if the Lutron integration was "closed" and part of the system and not available via source code or scripting language then Lutron would provide the auth keys to UD. Now like many I'm still getting up to speed with all of the new goodies from Ra 3. Even as an authorized dealer I didn't get any information ahead of time. I've been poking my contacts for information and it's slowly trickling in. I'm sure they are over whelmed with questions. I plan on taking the Ra 3 training soon as I will need to in order to get access to the designer software. The designer software for HomeWorks and Ra 3 are now the same. In the past they were different software. /rant over but I thought I'd drop some info as there's a lot of noise about Ra 3 with some good info and some not so good.

Very interesting claim. I can see that with Z-Wave LR...maybe. Riddle me this though. Since the actual Z-Wave chip is made by Silicon Labs who's specs are more valid?

By direct for Zooz or rather their consumer frontend TheSmartestHouse.com https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/collections/700-series-z-wave/products/zooz-usb-700-series-z-wave-plus-s2-stick-zst10-700 May not be helpful to those up north.....

Curious why you're not developing with the official Silicon Labs UZB7 USB Stick? The UZB7 stick is the reference standard for development and it's cheaper as than the Zooz stick. It's also in stock at Mouser.com and other distributors.

Z-Wave battery devices must be "awake" and listening for a query to function. On most Z-Wave battery devices their manuals provide directions for how to wake up the device. This is usually 1 or more presses of the button used to include/exclude them.

As in Missing In Action

I'm sorry I have not been to Miami. Wait was that correct? Umm???

Oh sure I see how it is.... I go MIA busy with work and I'm forgotten that easily.... fine

Might… need to find time to work on a lot of the nodeservers

Hubitat has a Z-Wave and Zigbee radio. Not a Lutron radio. Hubitat like everyone else integrates using the Lutron integration protocol aka telnet interface which is great, local and fast. Hubitat from inception has had very good Zigbee support and Z-Wave was secondary. Hubitat is like a SmartThings clone except it's all local control and apps. It's not a bad system it just has it's quirks like any system.

I think that's perhaps some other Wink or maybe the original. I have a Wink 2 hub (in a box) but it had a built in radios for: Z-Wave Zigbee Lutron It was a very complete package of radio's but had a very limited set of "supported" devices. However those devices worked as intended. The major downfall was that it was all cloud based just like SmartThings. Yeah they were trying and marketing moving to local automation but it really never materialized and they lost market fast to other systems when their cloud reliability had a lot of outages. To top it off they slapped on a monthly fee and without paying well nothing worked then. Honestly I'm surprised they still exist.

Same thing

Pretty app based interface. They are the first and only 3rd party that I know of that was ever able to license ClearConnect from Lutron for support of Caseta devices. I think Wink is still limping along but they lost a lot of customers when they switched to a monthly usage fee. I haven't heard much about them in the last year or so though.

Just gonna ask the "why" question. Why do you need, want or care about the RF specs? It's a proprietary licensed RF implementation. Nobody else is ever going to implement it especially after the Wink fiasco. I really doubt Lutron will EVER release the specs and allow anyone else to implement it. The flip side is that the controller API is widely available and open or rather it has been with the Lutron Integration Protocol known to most as the "telnet interface". This has allowed Lutron integration to all major control systems and lots of DIY integrations. Lutron is moving away from telnet and using SSH in their LEAP implementation for system integration. Access to the LEAP integration currently has been restricted to partners for implementation. I know RTI, Control4 have implemented it for the HomeWorks QSX processors. LEAP is not available on the Radio Ra 2 platform yet but I suspect it will be on the upcoming refresh.

I will stand corrected with your source of the Type X Clea Connect, however it's not for any of the Lutron control Systems but it is their branding of a implementation they acquired with the Ketra brand of lighting (bulbs and fixtures). Ketra integration is only available with HomeWorks systems at this point as well.

Look into RTI as well. Depending on the size it's not that expensive in the long run.

No Lutron is NOT Z-Wave. Lutron uses their own proprietary protocol called Clear Connect. This operates in a licensed spectrum range. Lutron has a few family products they are Lutron Caseta (entry level), RA2 Select, Radio Ra 2 and HomeWorks (high end). Secret? All of the tech specifics are available on the Lutron site. No Clear Connect operates in the 2.4Ghz band. Where are you pulling this from? Oh now that's funny. So the future is the cheapest branded garbage you can find on Amazon? Sounds about right. Tuya is made to make it easy for vendors to go to market quickly with a generic offering at the lowest possible price point. They are horrible to work with from an integration stand point and expensive. Not to mention nothing is local so if you don't have internet then it doesn't work. Using a phone/tablet for turning things on is not "Home Automation" and neither are voice boxes. They are just another "remote control".

For lighting then go with Lutron. Depending on budget and requirements there's a system for it. If money isn't an object then you could go with a full Control4 system and their lighting (they work with Lutron too, so does every decent automation platform).

What to go with depends. Is Insteon going away? Unlikely. Are they slow to deliver. Yup. So if you want a lighting system that's been around a long time and will continue to be around for a VERY long time then go with Lutron. Lutron did invent the dimmer after all. You won't have appliance plugs (15A capable) unless you go with Radio Ra 2, but you can always use Z-Wave for those purposes. Z-Wave sucks for lighting (My opinion, shared by many) but it's great for aux devices like power plugs and such. If you have a decent controller and a good mesh then it's good for some sensors too depending on requirements. The old ISY994i is long in the tooth and is getting a much needed update with the Polisy. It takes time to port a system and work out all of the issues and make it as stable as the predecessor but it will get there. I'm hoping with some much needed improvements along the way (string support!!!!, increased node name length, etc) you know little things

Does not look like a Chrome vs Firefox issue. Again today getting the same CloudFlare error that the CocoonTech server is offline from Chrome and FireFox.