IndyMike

Hello Michel, I actually encountered this several months ago. Rebooting the ISY (or querying My Lighting) would produce activity in the event monitor for roughly 30 seconds. The progress bar, however, would continue updating for several minutes. I noted several "strange" X10 response entries for devices that could not respond in my system (1 way X10). I theorized that this was causing the large time lag in the query. To troubleshoot, I created a "query" scene of all my Insteon devices. A query on this scene would complete in 30 seconds (progress bar closes). I believed that the above proved that the X10 devices were causing the large delay in querying My Lighting - I was wrong. I've been playing with things today and have found an interaction between my status programs the the My Lighting query. If I disable the status programs, the query completes normally after ~ 30 seconds. With the programs enabled, I can see them execute during the query. This apparently confuses the ISY and the progress bar again takes several minutes to terminate. I do not remember this being the case on older revisions of the ISY firmware. My confusion at this point is why the same doesn't occur when I query my scene that includes all of my Insteon devices. The programs still execute, but the ISY seems to handle it gracefully. Sorry for the previous mis-information, IM

Hello kingwr, Somewhat unrelated topic - I also get the "System Busy" dialog for a long period of time after a re-boot or query of "my lighting". I have the X10 module installed and after looking at the "event Viewer", I've determined that most of this time is spent querying X10 devices that can't respond (one way devices). This causes a huge delay as the ISY/PLM must time out on each X10 query before proceeding to the next. The querying of my Insteon devices is actually quite quick. I'm curious whether you have the X10 module installed as well? It might be possible to eliminate this lag if the ISY team were to incorporate a flag to specify whether the X10 devices were 1 way (receive only) or 2-way (receive/transmit). In the world of X10, there are actually very few of the 2-way devices available. I'm simply not sure how many ISY users have the X10 module installed. If only a few, this would be down quite a way on the priority list.

Hello jgreco, I'm very late to the discussion, but nonetheless interested. I have implemented programs exactly as you've described below to allow KPL buttons to monitor the status of various "groups" of devices in my home (1st floor, second floor, basement, whole house). You're correct that adding/deleting devices can be a little arduous. As you can probably tell, there has been a plethora of discussion on how to implement a conditional statement for a scene. The discussions to date have (in general) become very complex trying to cover all of the possible scene combinations and events. The result is a stalemate with no outcome. Your post above lead me to think about how I actually use "status tracking" in my applications. For most of my applications, I simply don't care whether a device is at it's preprogrammed scene level of xx%. I simply want to know whether the device is on or off. So what if we were able to treat scenes as a simple collection of devices that we would apply a condition to? I'm not sure what this would entail from the ISY side. It would essentially be a macro (collection) that the ISY would track as the system changed. As an example, I use the following to monitor the lights on my first floor. The KPL status buttons (3 locations) are in a scene "1st floor status", while the monitored devices are in the scene "1st floor On". If ( Status '2nd Floor / Master KPL 5 - 1st Floor' is not On Or Status '1st Floor / Mud KPL 3 - 1st Floor' is not On Or Status '1st Floor / Fam Room / Fam KPL 5 - 1st Floor' is not On ) And ( Status '1st Floor / Bar Cans' is On Or Control '1st Floor / Bar Lamp' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Dinnette SWL' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Fam Room / Fam Fan' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Fam Room / Fireplace Spots' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Foyer' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Foyer KPL 1 - Bar Lamp' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Foyer KPL 3 - Foyer' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Foyer KPL 4 - Bar Cans' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Foyer KPL 5 - Kitchen Cans' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Foyer KPL 6 - Dinnette' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Fam Room / Fam KPL 1 - Wall' is switched On Or Control '1st Floor / Fam Room / Fam KPL 2 - Fireplace Spots' is switched On Or Status '1st Floor / Fam Room / Fam KPL 3 - Lamps' > Off Or Control '1st Floor / Fam Room / Fam KPL 4 - Fan' is switched On Or Control 'Motion/RF / RL2 Fam Wall' is switched On Or Control 'Motion/RF / RL3 Fam Fan' is switched On Or Control 'Motion/RF / RL4 Kitchen' is switched On Or Control 'Motion/RF / RL5 Dinnette' is switched On ) Then Set Scene 'SC 1st Floor Status On' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Using the "group" or "collection" approach, this would simplify to: If ( Any device '1st floor status' is not on ) And ( Any device '1st floor on' is switched on ) Then Set Scene 'SC 1st Floor Status On' On Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') In the above, the "any device" would equate to an "or". The statement "all devices" could be used for an "and" (doesn't make sense with my example above). For my given example, I would need to rework things a bit since I've used both "status" and "switched" within the same program. This is doable. The advantage would be that the ISY would track and update the scene membership as the system evolved. No additional program changes would be required. Thoughts? I'm not sure what this would entail within the ISY. Nor am I sure whether users would value the function. IM

Hello Michel, I've been trying to be patient... My eyes popped open when you first posted the support for ET calculations in 3.1.3. Could you provide a little more detail? I am extremely interested and am fighting the urge to purchase an EZFlora prior to understanding the implementation. Please?, IM

Your Accesspoint should not require any "presses". It may, however, have locked up, or your RF signal path may have changed due to things in your home being "re-arranged". 1) In it's existing location - reset the AP by unplugging for ~10 seconds and then re-install (powerline spikes may have upset the AP). Re-try adding your 2420's. 2) If #1 doesn't work, try moving your AP closer to the 2420 (RF transmission my be obstructed).

Hello mmknox, Sorry to hear about the communication problems. I've been using dimmable CFL's in my outdoor lamps for some time. These are rather nasty noise makers, but I put up with them. I run two programs to control the lights in the daytime: Outside Daytime If From Sunrise + 1 minute To Sunset - 10 minutes (same day) And ( Status 'Outdoor / Entry Deck' > Off Or Status '1st Floor / Mud KPL 1 - Entry Garage' > Off Or Status 'Outdoor / Entry Patio' > Off Or Status 'Outdoor / Entry Porch' > Off ) Then Wait 2 minutes Set Scene 'SC Ouside Night' Off Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') Outside Daytime Poll If From Sunrise + 1 minute To Sunset - 10 minutes (same day) And Time is Last Run Time for 'Outside Daytime Poll' + 30 minutes Then Set Scene 'SC Outside Sunset' Query Else - No Actions - (To add one, press 'Action') During daylight hours the "poll" program will trigger every 30 minutes and run the query. If an outside light status "on" is detected, the main program will trigger to turn it off. This could likely been done more eloquently with a folder. As it is, I've been running it for years and it hasn't given me a problem.

Hello Cliff, I'm afraid we'll need help from the UDI team on this one. I'm not aware of any backup problems with the ISY 2.7.15 version. What version were you using previously? It's possible that your "old" version was not properly saving programs, or there is an incompatibility between versions. Either way, we need the UDI team to confirm.

Hello Cliff, You are correct that the programs should be saved with the back-up. There were some problems with earlier versions of the ISY firmware, but this was some time ago. I recently performed an upgrade and "appeared" to have lost my programs as well. Please use the following (standard) procedure: 1) Exit all browser windows 2) Clear your Java Cache 3) Re-start your browser/admin console. I understand that you've been using the ISY for some time and am not trying to be insulting here. Nonetheless, it's sometimes the little things that trip us up. If this doesn't work, we'll need Michel's/UDI help.

This statement may make more sense if we look at the actual programming screen: 1) In the highlighted condition above, the trigger is "ON". 2) The choice "IS" will cause the "Then" statement to execute. 3) The choice "IS not" will cause the "else" statement to execute. The "IS" and "IS not" are essentially vectors to the "Then" and Else" branches. I'll agree that it's difficult to separate these when looking at the program. However, when looking at the "condition selections" it appears clear.

Hello Cliff, Following up on Michel's request #2 (Identify one of the switches that we can use as test): If you have a LampLinc or other plug in Insteon device, please try moving this to the same circuit as the PLM and try to link. If the above works, it should exonerate the PLM/ISY and further indicate that you may have a new noise source/signal absorber in your system (possibly close to the PLM). This doesn't fix anything - it just gives us a direction to head in. IM

Lou, We're thinking along the same lines here. I interpret the "switched on" as the trigger. Anything else will not trigger the program. The "Is/Is not" is the execution control which calls either the "Then" or "Else" statement. I gave the "switched Fade up/down" a try. I'm way over my head with this sequence. The only way I could get things to make sense was to "group" the triggers with parenthesis. The following appears to execute the way that I would expect: Is "triggers" call the Then statement Is Not Triggers call the Else statment If ( Control 'Test / 0F.BF.A4.1' is not switched On Or Control 'Test / 0F.BF.A4.1' is switched Off ) And ( Control 'Test / 0F.BF.A4.1' is not switched Fade Up Or Control 'Test / 0F.BF.A4.1' is switched Fade Down ) Then Wait 2 seconds Send X10 'A1/Extended Code (9)' Else Wait 5 seconds Send X10 'A1/Extended Code (9)' I also tried the Dim/Bright trigger - no apparent effect on the program. Maybe this is for X10?

Hi Lou, I'm not sure why you would not see the program trigger. Is it possible that the program came up as disabled? I don't use this control that often. It's negative logic and tends to make my brain hurt. As I understand the command, it's intended to trigger execution of the "Else" statement. 1) if switch xyz is not switched on - The program will activate when the switch is turned on, but will execute the Else statement. Turning the switch off will have no effect. 2) if switch xyz is not switched on and switch xyz is switched off Program will execute the Then statement when the switch is turned off. Program will execute the Else statement when the switch is turned on. Rather than use the "negative" logic, I normally write two programs using the control functions "switched on" and "switched off". Not as eloquent, but it saves me from furrowing my brow down the road when I'm trying to remember what the heck a program is doing. Hope that helps, IM

Hello Lou, If you'll allow me to rephrase your question: Q: Will a device that is set to "off" in a scene cause a scene test failure. I believe the answer is no. i just tried setting one of my dimmers to "off" in my basement scene (7 devices). The scene test commands the scene on (my dimmer turns off) and all devices pass the test.

Illusion, I do not think our problems are related. My unit simply shuts down after a time and does not transmit anything when it does. I attribute this to years of being connected to dimmable CFL's. They may be dimmable, but they cause 40V spikes on the line when they switch. I have never seen an instance where an Insteon unit would register a paddle press when no one is around. At the same time, I don't monitor my switches via email notification. Again, your original instinct was probably a good one. Call SH and explain the problem. Even if the unit is out of warranty, they may be interested in determining what is going on.

Yet another swing and a miss... As luck would have it, I have the exact opposite problem occurring with a SWL dimmer. After being on for a long period of time, the unit turns will turn itself off. Re-activating the switch after the first off event will cause the unit to turn off within a couple of minutes. No communication activity logged at all. I finally removed the switch from the ISY and performed a factory reset - still powers down after XX time. Unfortunately this is in the "boss's" work area (kitchen). It's a 5 year old dimmer that has been connected to 6 dimmable PAR30 CFL's for years now. I fear that the CFL's have finally degraded the triac output of the switch. I replaced the switch with a relay unit to maintain harmony. Actually, harmony had already gone out the window during my troubleshooting (comments dealing with "foot" and "donkey"). After 30 years, she still has no sense of humor when the lights go off while she's cooking. Hope you resolve your situation without duress.

Hello Illusion, It's possible that you have a fluorescent or "other load" in the bathroom that is spiking the line and fooling the switch into turning on. Although I haven't experienced this with Insteon units, I've seen it with X10 and other devices. It has nothing to do with communication. Instead, it is a line spike that somehow makes it to the micro itself. I currently have a Leviton fan timer (5, 10, 20, 30 min) in my master bath that can be activated by switching my closet florescent on/off. It is a rare occurrence, but it does happen. Neither is a "communicating" device. Your first instinct to replace the switch is probably a good one. If the replacement acts up, I could look for troublesome loads switching on the same circuit.

Installed with no problems. I can confirm that the "compare links" function has been corrected. Unfortunately, I had not performed due diligence on 2.8.5... On both 2.8.5 and .6 versions, after first opening the admin console - 1) Right clicking a device on the tree and selecting "show device links" results in only the 1st link being displayed. 2) Performing the device link display from the tools menu works as normal. 3) Subsequent right clicks from the device tree perform the "show device links" function properly (entire list displayed). Closing the admin console and restarting will reset at 1) above. My apologies for not bringing this up sooner.

Michel, The compare feature is absolutely not a rush item. With your new context menu I can easily bring up a device link table and the ISY table side by side. Not quite as convenient, but it will certainly do for now. Thank you for the offer, but please focus on the many other requests that we forum members are posing for the team.

UDI team, Thank you again for all the effort. You really should take more credit for the fixes and enhancements you make in the product: Bug Fixes - 369: Contextual menu does not work when event viewer is in the way Confirmed - this was a big one for me. It's rare that I don't have the event viewer open, and on level 3. Previously, I was constantly moving the viewer around to allow the context menu to function. Enhancements - 222: Immediate level setting for dimmers (in addition to Dim/Bright buttons) Very nice - I've used this extensively already. I've been mapping the power curves of both incandescent and CFL lights. By clicking below the setting "bar", I can adjust levels in 1% increments using the cursor keys. A huge time savings. - 370: Event Viewer levels are now in a list (instead of a popup dialog) I'm a keyboard person - I really appreciate the use of lists rather than constant popup's. Nicely done. - 391: Diagnostics context menu on nodes This item is the real reason for my post: 1) Right clicking on a device brings up a menu that now includes diagnostics (show device links and show ISY links). 2) Right clicking on a scene again brings up a menu including diagnostics. For scenes, this allow you to perform a "scene test". This little improvement has quite simply made my day. I can't tell you how many times I used the drop down menus to search for a scene (scene test) or device (show device links) only to grab the wrong one. Being able to select from the tree will cut down significantly on my incorrect selections and subsequent trips to the refrigerator (while waiting for the wrong scene test/link table display to complete). I can feel my health improving already. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be 100% good news. I have not been able to get the "compare" function to work in the "show device links" function. Nonetheless - thank you your never ceasing presence on the forum and all the hard work on the product, IM

I thought I remembered where the dimmers were rated for magnetic LV loads - I can't find any evidence of that now. I may be remembering the X10 line. One comment on the overshoot near the zero crossing - this is substantial and I have not seen this with capacitive loads. I'd be interested in how this is referred to the line input of the switch. It would be occurring in the area (time frame) where Insteon messages are located.

Hello ergodic, Thank you for the plots. I haven't tried a dimmer output into an inductive load. As I was staring at my ongoing test setup this weekend, I came to two conclusions: 1) My plots above were generated with a 0.1u capacitive load. 2) I didn't have the proper load for your application 3) You've already performed the "acid test" when you hooked up your transformer and monitored the temperature. Sorry, I should have posted back earlier.

Hello CLU, Welcome to the forum. If you are using a dimmer, you could set the ramp rate to allow you to exit the area (1 minute or so). This would not require program intervention. If you want full brightness for 10 seconds your could use the maximum dim interval (9 minutes on some devices). You would then use a "fast off" command in your program. If Control "bathroom" is switched off Then wait 10 seconds set "bathroom" fast off I don't have a good solution if you are using a relay - there isn't a way to override the local switch function. You could install a Keypadlinc near the switch and use a secondary button (and program) to turn off the relay.

In that case I'll try the output of a newer SL dimmer. I've just put one on a long term power consumption test. These newer units appear completely different than my older models. This particular model isn't even registering on my Kill A Watt (previous units drew ~1W). A quick look at the components shows some significant changes as well. The old models had some rather large electrolytic and ceramic caps. These are gone on the newer models. The inductor appears to have at least 2x the turns on the newer units. I'm hoping the output performance is improved on these units. I'll try to get you some plots by the weekend.

Hello Ergodic, The following shows a pretty healthy DC content from a LampLinc. Don't remember what the Dim level was. This was likely from my "old" V1.0 LampLinc that I typically use for test purposes. It's possible that later units or SWL's preform better (since the SWL's are sometimes used for fan control). What type/version device are you using.

Hi Darrell, From the men-of-few-words department - Thoroughly , but that's my problem not yours... Exactly correct. As I posted in the "other" thread, devices with good PF are friendly to powerline communication and the utilities. Devices with poor PF (CFL's and such) cause problems with both powerline communication and long term problems with utilities. In the past, the current draw from these devices was below the radar. This is beginning to change. Other countries have adopted PF and HD (harmonic distortion) requirements for consumer devices. This will cost more in the short run, but should save us money (infrastructure-ultilities-tax dollars) down the road. So much for the few words attempt. Tried it, couldn't make it work. IM