ELA

Has anyone run the 4 tap phase bridging test on these yet? I have installed two of these and found the same space issues: http://www.smarthome.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8630&SearchTerms=2487S Last night I ran the 4 tap phase bridging test. I had never tried this before on dual band - box mounted switches. I found it quite challenging to press that little set(air gap) button 4 times rapidly enough to satisfy the darn thing. I also got very confused at first when looking at one 2487S , while an access point in a remote part of the house was the initiator. The four middle keys intermittently flashed on/off. As it turned out the RF signal level was near the minimum required and as I positioned myself in front of the switch the RF reception was affected. The bridging test was intermittently passing/failing. I then did a test between the two 2487S's and found it very easy to produce intermittent results when standing near the switch (producing RF reflections/attenuation). (switches about 30 ft part, as the crow flies through walls) From this testing (and using my new RF signal strength tester) it made plain (one again) that the access point was the stronger RF sender.

My first battery failure did show up in the ISY as a low battery. The battery measured 7.2V. I have now had another IR sensor go low battery without it showing in the main ISY status screen as low battery. Nothing found in the log, but the long was only 2 months in duration so it might have reported earlier and got lost. What I am not really very happy about is it demonstrated its low battery by constantly going on/off every 10 minutes from midnight till dawn. As a second data point this battery measured 6.0V when this occurred. ( it had gotten down to 16F that night as well) I have now added programs with notifications for each sensor to trap for any future low batteries. My hope is that there is a low battery indication (maybe only one) a good amount of time before it begins to flake out. The minimal data I have might support that? If I happened to notice the first failure near the point at which it sent the low battery warning. Perhaps on the second unit it had been running for 2 months or more from the 7.2V - 6.0V battery level. The report message was lost when I did a purge of the earlier log? It should be nice to have that early warning notification if it works.

I was disappointed that the new DB keypadlinc did not support the beep duration (not variable duration). I posted some results at Smarthome, two devices did support the duration command (variable length) were: The PLM and Access points. http://www.smarthome.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8734&SearchTerms=beep,duration

Hi Tim, When I moved my System PLM I assumed that I had to move the ISY with it. The communications between the ISY & the PLM is RS232 and it could definitely have issues over 50ft. There are also a few other connections in the RJ45 connector that I thought should not be brought out over such a long distance (possibly becoming an antenna for noise) . You could get lucky but I opted to move the ISY with the PLM to keep that RS232 link short. I instead used a 100ft cat6 cable between my computer room and the ISY (Ethernet link). The cat6 was more for the future since I did not want to go into the attic again later. May I wish you a very Merry Improvement, Ela

Thanks Brian, You provide such great links all the time! I thought your link cleared up my question about In-LineLinc Dimmer ratings. On the pro model they make clear that the 2.5A rating is for incandescent. So they are only good for 300W of Incandescent lighting load. That seems pretty wimpy for a Pro model? This prompted me to look at the Insteon floodlights to see if they stated a maximum bulb size. All I found was this (using the standard In-LineLinc): " Controls all standard incandescent and inductive loads, up to 480 watts" Now I am confused again Do people run the floodlights with (2) 150W par38 type bulbs and have good reliability or lifespan? What about derating and not running a device to the maximum capability (if they are truly rated at 300W incandescent). I didn't see a dimmer greater than 1000W? I found that exposure to the pro line interesting but I would have hoped for increased ratings? What then is the advantage of the pro-line?

What is the actual wattage rating of the In-linelinc? The Manual says 300watts. It refers you to the Smarthome ad page for specifications. Looking up above on the ad page it says 400watts , under specifications it says Max Amps 2.5 , Max Load 400watts. if ... 2.5 A x 120 V = 300 watts This is then confusing. What is a person to expect?

Thanks for your response on this LeeG, I agree completely. I have to question when people state that their Insteon network is 100%. After all the work I have done recently to strengthen my network, and I thought I was done, yet another issue reared its head. A mood light lamp that I do not use that often failed to turn off as part of a scene off command. I am in the process of debugging that now. I also believe in not ignoring issues and addressing them when noticed. I have been surprised at the number of signal suckers that may be present in the average home.

Assuming the dryer is a 30amp or larger dedicated circuit you cannot simply tap a 15A receptacle from one leg and neutral. At a bare minimum you would have to add a overcurrent device rated for the receptacle. Certainly recommended that the coupler be protected at a current lower than 30A as well ( as per the installation instructions). There was no mention of this in the planned install. A dryer is a dedicated circuit intended for that load and not intended as a distribution point from which to feed other loads. In addition consider that the dryer has a rather large motor that may produce large transients that will now be coupled very easily into your PLM.

Hi apostolakisl, I have done a lot of communications monitoring and found it very common to see the number of hops required change on subsequent send/receive attempts, even when other loads are not changing states. This has been true when the communications are marginal (on the fringe as you said). Regarding your post about adding the coupler: I would not recommend the installation as you laid it out. Adding a device to an existing 240V dryer circuit as you detailed sounds like it would be an electrical code violation. I would recommend you install it at the service cabinet with circuit breakers as the installation guide says to do. Then address any remaining issues once this is complete. Best of luck to you.

Hello apostolakisl, I have tried reading your post from beginning to end a few times with hopes that I could offer some help. The post above seems somewhat inconsistent with the rest of the thread? I have to question when someone says their system works at least 99% of the time. From the help others have offered and your responses I believe your system has some (possibly several) very real issues that you need to address if you want to attain reliable operation. I understand it can be very difficult without test equipment to make progress. I do want to throw out a couple of thoughts in hopes it might help some. If I read correctly It appears that Ack messages from the PLM to several devices are not making it though on 1 hop. Your desire is to increase the system performance such that 1 hop is all that is required. 1) You stated that you have a 2412S PLM. My 2412S had a rather weak transmitter. That may have been only my one device but I beleive the hardware design of the 2413 has a stronger transmitter. In addition the newest 2413 I purchased also has new firmware that appears to have changed the hop assist protocol. Normally the PLM would not participate in simulcasting its own 1st hop. My newest device does. I hate to suggest that you invest in a new PLM and find that it did not improve your situation but you might consider it. Without ability to monitor you signal levels it would only be a guess. 2) You talk about removing old signallincs and others have questioned how you might be coupling your phases. I think you need to be serious about getting a good intentional coupling whether that be via a hardware coupler or newer Access points. 3) Are you using any filters? Have you read others posts about devices they have had to add filterlincs to? In my experience there are lots of home appliances that can degrade your communications and it is likely that at least some of these may need to be filtered. As a side note: I also read where you used a 100ft extension cord when testing different positions for your PLM (as a diagnostic tool). I recently did a test to compare 175 ft of 14/2 romex against a 75Ft 14/2 extension cord. This test showed that a long extension cord (dependent upon its design) can be way worst than romex for Insteon signals. In romex the conductors are spaced farther apart and that results in a lower capacitance (there are other factors as that affect this as well but this is the obvious one). While the romex added very little measureable attenuation the extension cord added a fair amount. Using the comparative system system I have been previously the romex was null whereas the extension cord was greater than 1 Standard Insteon load. The point here is when doing a diagnostic test, where you move the PLM, use as short of a cord as required. Hope this did not sound too harsh. I did hope to help.

Just wanted to say thank you again! I confirmed that the laptop had an older version of AVAST that did not even include the "scan traffic from Well-known browser processes only"option. When I upgraded its AVAST it also failed to show the status. The new AVAST help did not mention what that option means. I will go to their site and see if there is info there. Appears it was a coincidence that I upgraded my ISY at or near the same time as Avast upgraded itself. Thank you all for you expert help! much appreciated.

Thanks LeeG, I used what the post by Brian said to check, "scan traffic from Well-known browser processes only" , whatever that means? and it worked. I had previously found my own way to the Web shield section as the issue and had tried entering the http// addresses and that did not work. Appreciate the quick response as this kind of stuff drives me up the wall. Hours down the drain.

Thanks for your response Michel, I am running comodo firewall and turning it off made no difference. After reading your response I also turned off Avast Antivirus and as you said the status then works. I do not understand why Avast blocks on one computer and not on the other. I also do not understand why it blocks now and did not in previous ISY versions? Can you please explain in more detail how to add it to the AVAST allowed list? I am experimenting with that now not am unsure where to look and what to add. The laptop does not show any specifically "allowed" items yet it does not block? I have run AVAST longer than I have had an ISY and never encountered this before? I am only familiar with allowing programs in comodo (firewall) and have never had to do any of this in AVAST previously.

turned off the firewall earlier and no difference. Avast runs on both laptop (that works and desktop that does not). What I find frustrating is not knowing where to Look? Doesn't the error log tell us anything? Why does everything get served up to the screen except status?

Pretty frustrated now. I really did not want an update but had to have it for a new keypadlinc support. Now I get to spend hours figuring out why the new version does not work right? I downloaded the latest 6.0.2 Firefox. Cleared my Java cache multiple times. Turned off all firewalls. reconfigured the DNS. Cold booted the ISY. I can see the ISY activity in the log getting a query from all devices on boot but still nothing in the current states windows.???

I am using Firefox browser. The strange thing is that I used a laptop also via Firefox and I do get status from there? Something to do with Firefox version or plug-ins??? I just had two programs fail to run as well???? Here is what I have in my error log: Time User Code Message Fri 2011/09/23 09:45:38 AM System -5012 27 Fri 2011/09/23 09:49:15 AM System -170001 [uDSockets] RSub:33 error:6 Any ideas would be appreciated. I am going to compare Firefox versions etc. I was not too concerned about missing status but two programs failing to run does concern me.

Just updated from 3.1.6 which appeared to have lots of issues. Now in 3.1.9. I never get any information the in the current state windows. If I do a query this still will not populate the current state window. I am still having the issue where changes I make to scenes or simple renaming will not show until I exit and re-enter? Is this some other issue? Things were fine until I upgraded to 3.1.6. The further upgrade to 3.1.9 does not appear to have helped my issues?

Thank you for the kind words Michel but I am still just a "grasshopper" in the Insteon world. The Exclamation points magically disappeared on their own when I logged on last night to investigate! I went to rename an existing function and had to exit and reenter in order for the name change to update once again. 3.1.6 seems very questionable. I will update to 3.1.8.

Thanks Michel, I am running 3.1.6. I just upgraded a couple of weeks ago in order to get support for the new 2487S I was installing. I prefer not to have to upgrade without good reason but it looks like I probably should upgrade to 3.1.7 now. I had my remotelinc in the linking mode during scene rebuilds that included it but yet I ended up with an Exclamation point on all references to it. I was doing some searching today and maybe the battery is low? The blinking LED was bright so I did not think to check. I will check that tonight.

The update to the new dual band Keypadlinc (relay) from the old keypadlinc (dimmer) was even more difficult and time consuming than I had imagined. Is there an issue in 3.1.6 where it fails to show updates properly? Or has something else possibly occurred in my recent upgrade to that ISY version that has issues? I encountered issues with deleting the old Keypadlinc, renaming, adding new lincs in scenes etc. None of these showed that they were updating, or that they had finished updating. I found I had to exit out of the ISY program and restart it before the updates were properly posted? It took me a while to figure out that the updates were actually happening since there was no visual feedback that they were . I got to watching the ISY LEDS to judge when updates might be done so that I did not have to exit and reenter after each change! then after all my changes were done I exited and re-entered and now all were shown as updated! I did finally get everything up and running again after all my program changes were also made. Can you please tell me if there are known status update issues in 3.1.6 or what else might be in correct in my setup? I now have RED Exclamation points by all the Remote linc keys. How do I correct these? I tried putting the remote in linc mode and writing updates but that did not work?

Thank you for the quick response Michel, I had other plans but I will take on the manual replacement task now.

I am hearing that I cannot use ISY to replace a Keypadlinc dimmer with a keypadlinc relay? I do not know a lot about link tables but couldn't the ISY replace 7 out of the 8 key functions for me, please If the dimmer vs a switch is an issue then I could relink that one out of 8 functions manually? Couldn't the switch simply ignore the dimmer functions? I would expect that there will be a few others that will want to take advantage of the dual band function of the new keypadlinc and desire this replacement function (since the new dual band keypadlinc is only offered in a relay type at this time).

Hello, I upgraded to 3.1.6 two weeks ago to install a new 2487S Dual band keypadlinc. This was a new install. Today I installed another 2487S that I want to REPLACE an existing 2486D keypadlinc. I do not see an option to do this in 3.1..6. Does 3.1.7. support this? I looked for replease notes but missed them somehow.

One suggestion might be two Triggerlincs (each within RF range of a dual band PLM/ device or access point powered by your UPS). The ext. input of each triggerlinc is feed by the contacts of a 120Vac coil relay (one relay coil powered by each leg/phase). When power goes out the triggerlinc changes states and triggers a program??

Hi Mark, I can only speak to those devices that I have measured personally. There are a lot of posts here about people getting resolution to communication issues by filtering this or that. I was unhappy with the trial and error method. For that reason I developed the tester that I did. It quantifies just how much signal any one device "sucks", or how low of an impedance it appears to be at 131Khz. I posted several results for some newly tested loads in that other post I pointed to. (sorry but I do not have a pool) Having started out with X-10 I already had 3 filters (Computer, battery charger, LCD TV #1) left from those days that I did not remove when I changed to Insteon. While I am happy to now be aware of just how bad each "signal sucker" is, I would prefer not to blanket filter them all, even if they are above a certain "suck" level. I simply do not want to incur the expense and the ugly wall warts if I do not have to. I have just installed three new devices. I purposely picked one to be a dual band in hopes that the RF section would help me overcome one or more of the known suckers in that area. I am in the process of doing message reliability checking to help me determine if I can avoid installing some filters. Do you use Houselinc? I do not own a copy but hear it is a good test tool for message reliability testing. I have a similar feature in my personal tester. You can then add/subtract filtering and repeat reliability testing to evaluate the filtering effectiveness. All said I am not aware of any major problem with installing more filters if you feel you need them. (within limits of course). I do feel it is important to make the the power line carrier aspect of the dual mesh network as reliable as you can. I do not want to become too reliant on the RF section or visa versa. I like the idea that each is as strong as it can be in order to make the overall communications as reliable as possible. In my current install I am hoping that between adding devices (thus strengthening the power line via hop usage) and more dual band devices to beef up the RF, that I can avoid some filters on what are known and substantial signal suckers.